AAA ALPA Thread 9-21 to 9-27

[aquagreen73s]

Anyone have any updates? Is it in D.C. or federal court at this point? I recall it was filed in the D.C. courts, and then removed to federal by the defendants. Did the plaintiffs they try to get it remanded back to the D.C. courts? Anyone?

Two issues are currently before Judge Sullivan: (1) AWA's motion to compel joinder of ALPA National as a co-defendant under Rule 19; and (2) AAA's motion to remand to DC Superior Court.

I can IM you AAA's opposition to compel joinder and AAA's motion to remand but reader beware: both of the AAA briefs torture logic as badly as the AAA complaint and reading either could cause severe distress to those who hold reason and logic in high esteem.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Money can make a whole bunch go away, including your misplaced fear that we in the west are lining up to wagon train east. [/b]

It isn't really about the move East or West but who will be laid off next year during consolidation. If there is no joining of lists then you never know which aircraft/crews will be returned/released at that time, since neither side is in bk this time around.

 

[aquagreen73s]

It isn't really about the move East or West but who will be laid off next year during consolidation. If there is no joining of lists then you never know which aircraft/crews will be returned/released at that time, since neither side is in bk this time around.

Yes! And the AWA pilots have a vested right to enforce the arbitration, but a court will hesitate to act equitably (ie, use its enforcement powers) without evidence of concrete harm. Well, the harm you outline perfectly frames the case for the AWA pilots. On the other hand, Boeingboy has outlined the 3:1 ratio of East vs. West lease expirations over the next couple of years. So...you decide who is vulnerable.

The cram down on the East is imminent.

 

[AWA320]

Money can make a whole bunch go away, including your misplaced fear that we in the west are lining up to wagon train east. [/b]

It isn't really about the move East or West but who will be laid off next year during consolidation. If there is no joining of lists then you never know which aircraft/crews will be returned/released at that time, since neither side is in bk this time around.

Ok granted 88!! However your logic is not shared by some of your brethren who post here. Now given the fact that new aircraft are supposed to be coming and that there is a real solid chance that we will futher our international presence, I am not seeing any furloughs in the furture at least not immediate furture anyway!

I understand your logic with regards to furlough protection, however I really need for you to understand ours. We were not furloughed at the time of this arranged marriage however AAA was and at almost half it's pilot force (over 33%) Contrary to what many have stated regarding AWA's financial status at the time be it Parker or otherwise, the sec filings say different. One must understand that Parker is a business man and one who deals with organized labor. He must do and or say whatever he must in order to get labor under control up to and including LIE! The sec filings don't lie or folks go to prison, reference Enron and worldcom!! Companies just do go bankrupt with that amount of unrestricted cash on hand.

Now we have a really good shot at getting some cash prior to this next merger and this next merger will come!!! I can't say for sure who it will be but I can say it will be!!

The UAL merger committee just signed their confidentality agreement as told to me by a committee member. They will be merging with someone and smart money is on us.

767Jetz can you add a little insight here????

 

[aquagreen73s]

The UAL merger committee just signed their confidentality agreement as told to me by a committee member. They will be merging with someone and smart money is on us.

Hence, ALPA's desire to "put this one away" and preempt any sort of repeat of the East's antics over the last four months. Even if it isn't US, ALPA was allowing a dangerous precedent to be set for future mergers.

 

[767jetz]

767Jetz can you add a little insight here????

I wish I could, but I signed a confidentiality form, and I can't reveal my super secret sources. (sorry, couldn't resist!)

But seriously, I did hear from one source who I will say right up front is not necessarily a reliable one, that in October we will here about a UA&CO deal. According to him it's a done deal. I don't know how they would deal with NWA's golden share, but it is speculated that there will also be a NW&DL deal that would release CO from that.

I also heard that from another that IF USAirways gets their seniority dispute resolved, and IF (a very big if) there were a pre-nup agreement to avoid a repeat of your current civil war, then a US&UA deal could still be on the back burner. But if you guys remain buried in years of litigation, then US will be on the sidelines during the next round of consolidation.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Wrong BF, you just don't get it do you?? You would never ever EVER get agency shop period!!

AWA320

You already have an agency shop under ALPA.

When the vote comes for USAPA it will be the very same agency shop.

Go ahead and sue (cry, fuss, scream like a little girl) or do what ever you want to do since the law is on the side of USAPA. You will be billed dues and assessments.

Don't worry we in good standing will take care of you while your in bad standing or getting fired.

 

[USA320Pilot]

ALPA PHL Council 41 Update - September 10, 2007

What’s your Price?

Dear Philadelphia Pilots,

ALPA National has commissioned yet another Poll to see what it might take to buy your seniority. In addition, they will be measuring your resolve, and their future on this property. The Rice Committee continues with the belief that the Nicolau Reward can be mitigated through Joint Contract Negotiations. Building upon that idea, ALPA will attempt to quantify the amount needed to produce a majority of us to vote in the affirmative. Not only is ALPA interested in this information, but you can bet Mr. Jerrold Glass will find the information very useful. Not that they have any intention of paying it, but it does provide hard data into the psyche of the modern day Airline Pilot.

A couple of things you may want to consider before that call comes in from the folks at the Wilson Center : Do you want Cash on the barrel head, or another IOU from ALPA and the Company? Will an increase in hourly wage make up for the loss of working conditions through an inferior seniority position. Will your personal choice have a detrimental effect on your fellow pilots? Will your choice make a difference in the future of the Airline Profession? Will your choice compromise your own principals? What’s the likelihood that the company will deliver for the duration of the contract? What will be the result of consolidation or downsizing on the loss of your Seniority?

Your PHL Reps do not plan on participating in this poll if we are called. Producing a poll to legitimize the direction that best suits the institution is contrary to unionism. The lack of leadership demonstrated by ALPA continues to disappoint us.

3rd Quarter MEC Meeting

We will be in CLT this week attending the MEC meeting; should be interesting. Stay Tuned.

Follow the three prong approach, Fly safe, Family First, and SAP down for quality of life.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The ALPA constitution and by-laws states members must be allowed to vote on anything that would affect pilot pay and benefits. Therefore, regardless of what ALPA National does a joint contract is unlikely that contains the Nicolau Award.

With USAPA having about 2,500 Authorization Cards the East pilot sentiment should be crystal clear.

If ALPA attempts to negotiate a contract for the East and puts items in place in a TA that the USAPA "fence sitters" object to that will further increase USAPA support and the odds of ALPA being "kicked off" of the property.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

767jetz,

A pre-nup will not part of USAPA merger policy, thus, this could be a problem if US Airways attempts to acquire United again.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[SkyRat]

The ALPA constitution and by-laws states members must be allowed to vote on anything that would affect pilot pay and benefits. Therefore, regardless of what ALPA National does a joint contract is unlikely that contains the Nicolau Award.

With USAPA having about 2,500 Authorization Cards the East pilot sentiment should be crystal clear.

If ALPA attempts to negotiate a contract for the East and puts items in place in a TA that the USAPA "fence sitters" object to that will further increase USAPA support and the odds of ALPA being "kicked off" of the property.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Blah, blah, blah!

Well mister M, you continue to sound like a broken record. NOTHING that you have said for months have come to reality. NOT ONE THING!!!

Give it a rest... Go for a walk... Take a vacation... Something!

Peace

 

[prechilill]

if US Airways attempts to acquire United again.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

What planet are you on???

 

[exB717Flyer]

It isn't really about the move East or West but who will be laid off next year during consolidation.

BINGO! If it wasn't for that I'd have no problem with a DOH integration with fences visible from outer space. Do you not agree that a reasonable integration causes both sides to share the pain of furloughs? As it so happens, Nicolau ratioed the two lists such that both sides would indeed share the pain. Of course, those who were already on furlough on the snapshot date retain that status. What the AAA MEC and USAPA advocate is for Westies to suffer the brunt of any future furloughs. No wonder they're having trouble pushing that through.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320

You already have an agency shop under ALPA.

When the vote comes for USAPA it will be the very same agency shop.

Ahhh No it's not but nice attempt at grasping for straws!

You know nothing other than what your shepards tell you do you?? You would have to set up your OWN CB&L's and your OWN rules and regulations! Now since you would be in litigation right out of the gate and since we would have order in hand barring your so called dues and assessments we need not worry!!!

Go ahead and sue (cry, fuss, scream like a little girl) or do what ever you want to do since the law is on the side of USAPA. You will be billed dues and assessments.

That is too funny to even comment

Don't worry we in good standing will take care of you while your in bad standing or getting fired.

Well I guess that 1800 plus pilot need to worry about getting fired then. Wait how in the world will the airline survive much less operate with that many terminations?? I guess we had better listen to you then because you are an authority I guess we will have to just see what happens now won't we?? BTW hows that funds drive coming???

USAPA like DOH is DOA and that's all I'm gonna say about that (Forrest Gump 1994)

 

[LCC_#1]

767jetz,

A pre-nup will not part of USAPA merger policy, thus, this could be a problem if US Airways attempts to acquire United again.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Say WHAT??