AA to pay $14 million in first quarter AIP bonuses

[MCI transplant]

What I don't understand it that with Ichan (sp?) at TWA , did anybody expect anything different given his nature (corporate raider) & past history? While he was there, did he actually even 'manage' the airline?

<_< -----This is all ancient history now. And no one really cares any longer except maybe some of us that lived through it!----- Carl Ichon was what was at the time, thought to be the better choose to "rescue" us from the clutches of Frank Lorenzo and our former Management. Ichon, with the help of the IAM, bought TWA out from under them. As it turned out, it was like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire! Ichon raped the company. Took, or mortgaged, anything and everything of value, and when he thought there was nothing left, turned us loose! And none of the cash he raised by doing this ever went back into the company! Example: One of the first things he did was to ship all our spare aircraft parts to a small company he founded in Wichita, and sold them back to us when needed! It got to the point where we were bartering light bulbs for toilet paper here at the Overhaul base just to keep going! It got that bad! ------ But enough said! Like I said! Ancient history!!!

 

[aamechntx]

Trying to make it better is commendable. I know it's an uphill fight in your industry, but I hope you succeed. My advice would be to remove the union leadership who refuse to recognize the reality that they are negotiating for a raise in the middle of a nasty recession. Employers have most of the power in this labor market.

As for these bonuses, they are well deserved. I'm not surprised that some elements try to use them to further a specific agenda. The reality is these were earned and rightful distributed to the employees.

Hmm, you're not getting the point I was trying to make Mr. Frequent. You commented on a little poke I was making towards someone else. Instead of fleeing a problem (communist party) we are entrenching. We are staying in it so we as employees can benefit. Emperical data shows when employees are happy ultimately the end result is happy customers. As far as removing the union leadership. I have my opinions on the matter, but removal because they are trying to negotiate a raise in a bad economy isn't the reason. Thats like saying we shouldn't blindly reward our executives in bad economic times. You do remember the millions of dollars just paid out in boguses, yes? Based on share performance. What did they compare the share performance too? Aeroflot?

The business cycles are less predictable than ever, but there are still good times ahead. We don't have the ability to look into the future and schedule contract discussions which coincidentally happen to take place in a bull market.

Those earned and rightful rewards you mentioned would've been more so if they were about a thousand times bigger. I think you would better understand if you knew what the going rate for labor was at Fed EX, UPS, LUV and Jetblue. I posted another topic, AMFA and SWA's labor agreement, it's in SW's forum. When you take into account just the pay difference we are 18k behind the market rate. When you look at the differences in vacation time, hoilday pay, structured bonuse and other benefits we are an additionally 5-10k in pay.

Once again, sorry that the timing does not make sense to you, but it makes sense to whole lot of people on the payroll at AA.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I posted another topic, AMFA and SWA's labor agreement, it's in SW's forum. When you take into account just the pay difference we are 18k behind the market rate. When you look at the differences in vacation time, hoilday pay, structured bonuse and other benefits we are an additionally 5-10k in pay.

What about the going rate for UA, DL, CO and US? Aren't they your peers as opposed to FedEx or SW? Would you take the SW wages as well as the SW work rules? I asked this question before and I think the answer was something along the lines of 'I want the SW wages but screw their work rules'.

 

[Hopeful]

What about the going rate for UA, DL, CO and US? Aren't they your peers as opposed to FedEx or SW? Would you take the SW wages as well as the SW work rules? I asked this question before and I think the answer was something along the lines of 'I want the SW wages but screw their work rules'.

What do you know about work rules being an outsider? Tell us!

 

[The Goose]

What do you know about work rules being an outsider? Tell us!

Mr. Hopeful:

There are 3 or 4 on this site that are rather full of themselves and consequently are impossible to reason with - they are right and we are wrong. There's simply no argument that will convince the office bound that many of us aren't the lazy slugs they believe.

If we quit responding to their posts, they'll go away.

 

[Hopeful]

Mr. Hopeful:

There are 3 or 4 on this site that are rather full of themselves and consequently are impossible to reason with - they are right and we are wrong. There's simply no argument that will convince the office bound that many of us aren't the lazy slugs they believe.

If we quit responding to their posts, they'll go away.

Good point, Goose. However it is wishful thinking that they will just go away and crawl back into their corporate cocoons. You would think they would just associate with like minded people in another forum instead of associating themselves with the likes of us unrealistic and lazy union people. Go figure.
I understand this is a public forum and open to all, but it amazes me these outsiders have such an interest in our issues. They are obviously pro-management and have a specific ax to grind with us. Or maybe they here on behalf of the company to try to persuade us into accepting more concessions and the realities that executives are better than the rest of us and deserve even more.

If I even thought for a nano second they would go away if I ignored them, I would....

But they are here for a specific purpose. Why would a big shot lawyer, big shot business man who used to have his AA platinum card as his avatar post here?

Go figure.

 

[aamechntx]

What about the going rate for UA, DL, CO and US? Aren't they your peers as opposed to FedEx or SW? Would you take the SW wages as well as the SW work rules? I asked this question before and I think the answer was something along the lines of 'I want the SW wages but screw their work rules'.

Yes, I would take the work rules. I embraced the protestant work ethic decades ago.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

What do you know about work rules being an outsider? Tell us!

aamechntx had no problem answering. Why don't you answer a simple, honest question?

 

[Hopeful]

aamechntx had no problem answering. Why don't you answer a simple, honest question?

I don't kwow squat about SWA workrules. They don't have an in house overhaul program like AA does...And what's the ratio of AA mechanics to SWA's? I don't know and I don't care.

Just like you and other management/ non-union employees go in and negotiate your own worth to your boss to get that next raise and promotion, my concern is AA and AA only.

Would I like to see AA shed 7000 mechanics jobs just to outsource? I wouldn't! But I know people like you would love it just to "stick it to labor."


How about AA operating managerially like SWA or any other airline? how many Directors, and VP's does this company need?

Whats the company's comparison to management structure and number at other airlines?

Why do you pro company cheerleaders always exempt management from your anti labor arguments?

 

[frontline]

I'll take any bonus or pay out I can get at this point.... wife just lost her job last week, so we are down to one income. Can't lose that one, too, so we are going to have to make AA work!

 

[Bob Owens]

aamechntx had no problem answering. Why don't you answer a simple, honest question?

Maybe because the question is neither. Clarification isnt always avoidance. You are asking Hopeful to agree to something without letting him know what he's agreeing to.

What are the workrules in place under the TWU that you feel leave AA in an uncompetative position?

 

[Bear96]

Why do we stay? Because unlike some others who flee from problems, we are trying to make it better.

So how is that plan going for you - have things gotten better?

 

[The Goose]

Maybe because the question is neither. Clarification isnt always avoidance. You are asking Hopeful to agree to something without letting him know what he's agreeing to.

What are the workrules in place under the TWU that you feel leave AA in an uncompetative position?

He/she hasn't a clue, Bob - just another of the pro-management twits posting here hoping they won't be challenged. You'll only get an answer after there's been much consulting with the other management types on this board.

"You are asking Hopeful to agree to something without letting him know what he's agreeing to."

Isn't that the basic management tactic/ploy of asking a question with no real answer except one that's "wrong"?

The intent is to find fault with any response in order to belittle and show "superiority" and "leadership". That ploy only works during the first two weeks of boot camp.

 

[eolesen]

How about AA operating managerially like SWA or any other airline? how many Directors, and VP's does this company need?

Whats the company's comparison to management structure and number at other airlines?

Why do you pro company cheerleaders always exempt management from your anti labor arguments?

Well, I've posted that before, Hopeful.

WN has 1 more VP than AA does, so when you consider they have half the employees with the same number of VP's, they've actually got double the number of senior managers.

Don't know what they have operationally.

 

[aamechntx]

So how is that plan going for you - have things gotten better?

Not yet, but I do believe that things are going to get better soon.