AA MD80s to be gone by end of 2017

[WorldTraveler]

DL has given no indication of how long they will keep the M80s but they have repeatedly said that it is the most profitable fleet in its system - because it works well in the 2-3 hour business markets that are the core of DL's ATL and DTW hubs.

given that a 2 hour flight is really only in the air for a little over 1 1/2 hours on average and fares are high - in part because DL has such good pricing control of its hubs markets - the economic justification of replacing M80s with newer aircraft is not there.

that said, Richard Anderson has said that Airbus and Boeing are producing so many new aircraft that there will be a major bubble in the narrowbody market which means that DL could find either very low prices on current generation aircraft (not unlike their choice to go with the 739ER instead of the NEO or MAX versions) or a large fleet of used aircraft that could be easily put into service - ala the 717 or M90.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

It is an interesting strategy - maintaining older aircraft vs buying new - but surely there must be a point when the maintenance costs start to add up (high # of cycles, etc).  I would mention fuel inefficiency too, but at least for now fuel prices have dropped, although it remains to be seen how long they can remain so low.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL has said that its maintenance capabilities which have resulted in the lowest maintenance CASM in the industry along with being the largest airline MRO in the Americas is part of what allows it to operate older aircraft types efficiently.

I noted the argument about fuel efficiency.... the M80 operates flights that just don't generate the level of cost savings that longer flights do. note that DL is buying new fuel efficient aircraft available in their class for their longhaul fleet. the economics of short and longhaul fleet replacement is not the same.

further, current low fuel prices might push out the return on investment for newer aircraft while making the economics of older aircraft work for several more years than planned.

 

[metopower]

Any mention of when they will be introduced into service at DL?

DL doesn't fly the older MD 80. Nor would they want them. Except for spare parts.

 

[jcw]

It might put out the old aircraft strategy however then conflicts with a refinery - it's amazing no matter what happens one airline always seems to win

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, the refinery exists IN PART because of the older aircraft strategy.

cart is behind the horse, right where it belongs.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I think World Fraudster is getting tangled up in his web of DL rules the world fairy tales.  Again.
 

no, the refinery exists IN PART because of the older aircraft strategy.
 

 

DL has given no indication of how long they will keep the M80s but they have repeatedly said that it is the most profitable fleet in its system - because it works well in the 2-3 hour business markets that are the core of DL's ATL and DTW hubs.

 
I didn't know that DTW and ATL are right around the corner from Trainer.
 

DL has said that its maintenance capabilities which have resulted in the lowest maintenance CASM in the industry along with being the largest airline MRO in the Americas is part of what allows it to operate older aircraft types efficiently.

I noted the argument about fuel efficiency.... the M80 operates flights that just don't generate the level of cost savings that longer flights do. note that DL is buying new fuel efficient aircraft available in their class for their longhaul fleet. the economics of short and longhaul fleet replacement is not the same.

further, current low fuel prices might push out the return on investment for newer aircraft while making the economics of older aircraft work for several more years than planned.

 
I don't want to offend any DL mechanics, but I don't see any reason why AA (or other ariline(s)) could not be capable of obtaining "maintenance capabilities" to keep older aircraft types around. 
I think that DL is choosing the strategy of offering the lowest common denominator on short haul flights as opposed to offering something better for long-haul / international (like state-of the art B767s  ).  It seems to be working so far, but to say that the maintenance capability of DL is the reason isn't it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

airlines build their maintenance to reflect their fleet and their strategies for it, not the other way around.

I have no doubt that AA couldn't maintain its M80s to the same standards of reliability and life if it wanted to.

ATL and DTW are not around the corner from Trainer. I didn't say they were. Most of DL's business markets are within a 2 to 3 hour flight of ATL and DTW.

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

TUL MD80s are being worked in Hangars 3A-3D also in Hangar 4A. 737s drop- ins are also worked in Hangar 3D.

4D also but it's not a heavy line...more drop ins

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

If I could detract from the tales of DL greatness and return to the topic at hand:  I think this aircraft has served AA quite well over the years (35+?) that it was in the fleet.  And, didn't AA get a very sweet deal from Douglas aircraft to order the MD-80s?

 

[topDawg]

 
Any guess/idea on how long before DL parks it's fleet?

Knowing what I know now? 
I would say the first ships head out in 2020 to 2020 with the fleet gone completely in 2025-2026 or so. 
Would not be shocked to see either a very end of the line 737NG or 320CEO order or Delta jump on the MAX/NEO train. 
 
Sound like management really like what they are hearing on 737-8MAX. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

wow 2020 to 2020?

that will be a tough year for DL fleet replacement.

hates FAD ordering. which is why they won't order the MAX now. Until the fad wears off.

and yes, AA gave life to the M80.

It was Douglas' bridge to the future as a 2 engine, 2 member cockpit 727.

 

[topDawg]

wow 2020 to 2020?

that will be a tough year for DL fleet replacement.

hates FAD ordering. which is why they won't order the MAX now. Until the fad wears off.

and yes, AA gave life to the M80.

It was Douglas' bridge to the future as a 2 engine, 2 member cockpit 727.

2020-2022 is when i expect the first ships to leave
 
and Delta doesn't like fad ordering unless its an airplane they want. see 350 and 339 order. 
 
 
and FWIW the 30 737 options Delta has can be converted to 737MAX(along with some of the current 900ER orders) 

 

[FWAAA]

If I could detract from the tales of DL greatness and return to the topic at hand:  I think this aircraft has served AA quite well over the years (35+?) that it was in the fleet.  And, didn't AA get a very sweet deal from Douglas aircraft to order the MD-80s?

That is correct. Crandall negotiated a great deal for the super80s. From the archives of the New York Times:

Next came the realignment of the fleet. Completing a program to rid the company of its overly large 747's, and winnowing out an earlier generation of smaller jets, American set out to acquire some brand-new aircraft. As luck would have it, McDonnell Douglas made an excellent twin jet, the Super 80. Introduced in 1977, the plane, which carried up to 155 passengers, was between 30 percent and 40 percent cheaper to operate than a 727. But Douglas had failed to develop a market for its new plane, which presented cash-poor American with a golden opportunity. The airline arranged to lease 20 Super 80's from Douglas for what was called a ''test drive'': if American found the planes unsatisfactory at any time, it could return them on 30 days' notice and pay a penalty of less than $2 million per plane. Hence, without going into debt, and with a minimum outlay of cash as well as significant tax benefits, American obtained the use of some brand-new planes. The company liked the Super 80's so well that it eventually acquired 193 of them.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/23/magazine/and-now-can-bob-crandall-have-it-all.html?pagewanted=3

That was written in 1990, and by the end of that decade, AA had acquired 260 of them. The purchase of TWA's assets in 2001 included another 100 of them and brought the total to 360 (minus the one hull loss at Little Rock).

An amazing airplane and key to AA's growth in the 1980s and 1990s.

 

[topDawg]

That is correct. Crandall negotiated a great deal for the super80s. From the archives of the New York Times:


http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/23/magazine/and-now-can-bob-crandall-have-it-all.html?pagewanted=3

That was written in 1990, and by the end of that decade, AA had acquired 260 of them. The purchase of TWA's assets in 2001 included another 100 of them and brought the total to 360 (minus the one hull loss at Little Rock).

An amazing airplane and key to AA's growth in the 1980s and 1990s.

sound a lot like the deal Airbus gave Eastern to get the A300s.