A WINDFALL HAS TAKEN PLACE.

[AWA320]

We keep hearing that same old song sung by the east that a windfall has happened in the west so lets take a look at the situation and see if we can find one.

Always start at the top.

The top 517 EAST pilots that's roughly 10% receive DOH integration!! Windfall EAST

All of the widebody flying goes to the EAST for the next 4 years. This means that NO WEST pilots can occupy those slots. Windfall EAST

Recalling of EAST furloughed pilots 300 of them, while we were hiring 30 a month that stopped the day the merger was announced. Windfall EAST.

The east was furloughed up to 33% of it's active pilot force with no real hope or plan for the furture. Along comes this merger and now they have new life. Windfall EAST

The west pilots are paid better than our east counterparts with the exception of widbody pay. The day a contract is signed their pay goes up and avg of 25% HUGE WINDFALL EAST!

The ingegration has done little to aid the west pilots. If you were senior on the east you are senior on the new list and if you were jr on the east you are jr on the new list. NO ADVANTAGE TO THE WEST.

The EAST would have all believe that there was a real chance for success of their company outside of this merger. Well not some but all indications pointed otherwise. They would have us believe that they brought lots of attrition when in reality they had no real hope of even surviving so any attrition that is brought is a result of being merged with the stronger company AWA. Lets face it, the truth USAir had no plan and no money outside of a small loan from Air Wisconsin.

Now we really need to look at that loan from AWAC and why they gave USAir a loan. They did it because they knew that a merger was looming and they had a bit of an inside track.

So where is this windfall that the west got?? I'll tell you, it doesn't exist!! The truth of the matter is the east leadership misled their pilot group into believing that a DOH was a viable option. They told their pilots that all would be captains at the west's expense and now that this hasn't happened they are looking for blood.

The west pilot group is now charged with giving all strong leadership simply because the east leaders have failed to lead. We will lead you!! We will lead all to the promise land of pay and benefits.

 

[Phoenix]

We keep hearing that same old song sung by the east that a windfall has happened in the west so lets take a look at the situation and see if we can find one.

Nah. Lets just lock this thread cause there is no reason to read past you first line. Whatever else you or others post has already been said.

 

[luvthe9]

The top 517 EAST pilots that's roughly 10% receive DOH integration!! Windfall EAST
How is this a windfall to the east the top 500 or so were working almost 2 yrs before A-west even started. your #1 guy picked up 2 years free, put in right behind the 81 hire dates, that one made you look stupid!!!!

 

[flybynite]

We keep hearing that same old song sung by the east that a windfall has happened in the west so lets take a look at the situation and see if we can find one.

Always start at the top.

The top 517 EAST pilots that's roughly 10% receive DOH integration!! Windfall EAST

All of the widebody flying goes to the EAST for the next 4 years. This means that NO WEST pilots can occupy those slots. Windfall EAST

Recalling of EAST furloughed pilots 300 of them, while we were hiring 30 a month that stopped the day the merger was announced. Windfall EAST.

The east was furloughed up to 33% of it's active pilot force with no real hope or plan for the furture. Along comes this merger and now they have new life. Windfall EAST

The west pilots are paid better than our east counterparts with the exception of widbody pay. The day a contract is signed their pay goes up and avg of 25% HUGE WINDFALL EAST!

The ingegration has done little to aid the west pilots. If you were senior on the east you are senior on the new list and if you were jr on the east you are jr on the new list. NO ADVANTAGE TO THE WEST.

The EAST would have all believe that there was a real chance for success of their company outside of this merger. Well not some but all indications pointed otherwise. They would have us believe that they brought lots of attrition when in reality they had no real hope of even surviving so any attrition that is brought is a result of being merged with the stronger company AWA. Lets face it, the truth USAir had no plan and no money outside of a small loan from Air Wisconsin.

Now we really need to look at that loan from AWAC and why they gave USAir a loan. They did it because they knew that a merger was looming and they had a bit of an inside track.

So where is this windfall that the west got?? I'll tell you, it doesn't exist!! The truth of the matter is the east leadership misled their pilot group into believing that a DOH was a viable option. They told their pilots that all would be captains at the west's expense and now that this hasn't happened they are looking for blood.

The west pilot group is now charged with giving all strong leadership simply because the east leaders have failed to lead. We will lead you!! We will lead all to the promise land of pay and benefits.

Has any one told you that you are a little creepy? If not , I am.

The west pilot group doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to 9/11 loans.
As I understand it, AWA was at the head of the line for Government Loans to keep them from going belly up. You got it too. It was the only thing that kept you afloat.

If you hadn't gotten that loan....we wouldn't be having this discussion. So don't act all high and mighty. AWA didn't get "harmed" like Us Airways did after 9/11. We had one of our crew bases shut down for months.(DCA) Damn near a year.
You've got one crew base?? In the west?? If you get right down to it...you didn't deserve the loan you got.

:angry:

How's that for a windfall.

 

[Freighterguynow]

We will lead all to the promise land of pay and benefits.

Living proof - if you spout your own line of BS enough, you WILL eventually believe .....

 

[foreright]

We keep hearing that same old song sung by the east that a windfall has happened in the west so lets take a look at the situation and see if we can find one.

Always start at the top.

The top 517 EAST pilots that's roughly 10% receive DOH integration!! Windfall EAST

All of the widebody flying goes to the EAST for the next 4 years. This means that NO WEST pilots can occupy those slots. Windfall EAST

Recalling of EAST furloughed pilots 300 of them, while we were hiring 30 a month that stopped the day the merger was announced. Windfall EAST.

The east was furloughed up to 33% of it's active pilot force with no real hope or plan for the furture. Along comes this merger and now they have new life. Windfall EAST

The west pilots are paid better than our east counterparts with the exception of widbody pay. The day a contract is signed their pay goes up and avg of 25% HUGE WINDFALL EAST!

The ingegration has done little to aid the west pilots. If you were senior on the east you are senior on the new list and if you were jr on the east you are jr on the new list. NO ADVANTAGE TO THE WEST.

The EAST would have all believe that there was a real chance for success of their company outside of this merger. Well not some but all indications pointed otherwise. They would have us believe that they brought lots of attrition when in reality they had no real hope of even surviving so any attrition that is brought is a result of being merged with the stronger company AWA. Lets face it, the truth USAir had no plan and no money outside of a small loan from Air Wisconsin.

Now we really need to look at that loan from AWAC and why they gave USAir a loan. They did it because they knew that a merger was looming and they had a bit of an inside track.

So where is this windfall that the west got?? I'll tell you, it doesn't exist!! The truth of the matter is the east leadership misled their pilot group into believing that a DOH was a viable option. They told their pilots that all would be captains at the west's expense and now that this hasn't happened they are looking for blood.

The west pilot group is now charged with giving all strong leadership simply because the east leaders have failed to lead. We will lead you!! We will lead all to the promise land of pay and benefits.

LOL!!!!!

 

[AWA320]

Nah. Lets just lock this thread cause there is no reason to read past you first line. Whatever else you or others post has already been said.

Ok we'll just take them one by one

Phoenix, glad we live in a free society, don't like what's being said? Easy fix don't read it and even better don't respond!!

The top 517 EAST pilots that's roughly 10% receive DOH integration!! Windfall EAST
How is this a windfall to the east the top 500 or so were working almost 2 yrs before A-west even started. your #1 guy picked up 2 years free, put in right behind the 81 hire dates, that one made you look stupid!!!!

How you ask?? Well because we have what's known as a merger policy and guess what?? DOH is not in it but I bet you didn't know that did you? So I guess it's you who looks stupid now doesn't it seeing as how you can't read and all!!

 

[AWA320]

Has any one told you that you are a little creepy? If not , I am.

The west pilot group doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to 9/11 loans.
As I understand it, AWA was at the head of the line for Government Loans to keep them from going belly up. You got it too. It was the only thing that kept you afloat.

If you hadn't gotten that loan....we wouldn't be having this discussion. So don't act all high and mighty. AWA didn't get "harmed" like Us Airways did after 9/11. We had one of our crew bases shut down for months.(DCA) Damn near a year.
You've got one crew base?? In the west?? If you get right down to it...you didn't deserve the loan you got.

:angry:

How's that for a windfall.

Having a bit of a hard time making your point without name calling huh?? That's ok it's typical of you people and somewhat expected. Yes we were the first carrier to get the ATSB loan and if memory serves me correctly you got one too that AWA had to pay back for ya cause you were days from chapter 7 liquidation... We all got hammered after 9/11 but AAA had no plan thus was in default on your loans. AAA was toast and you know it!! No we have two crew bases in the west!!

The end result is this, we had a solid plan that was working and AAA did not. Just remember you were only days from liquidation. Now we could go on and on about this but it's pointless. We all need a better contract and the sooner we get you off those regional jet wages the better.

Living proof - if you spout your own line of BS enough, you WILL eventually believe .....

What you happy being paid RJ wages with poor work rules?

Wake the hell up!!! You leaders sold you out and continue to place you lips on their rears :down:

 

[A320 Driver]

I guess things were getting a little too quiet on the board, so AWA320 decided to give the ole pot a stir...with one-sided mis-information.

Keep promoting that goodwill sir!

A320 Driver B)

This is some airline, ain't it?

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE(AWA320 @ Jun 1 2007, 03:26 PM)
"BTW a deal would mean that there is something in this for our pilots, WHAT???

"I stand by my previous that it's now the principle of the thing. We would rather watch this entire operation burn to the ground then give one inch after the fact. BINDING ARBITRATION you chose you agreed to the terms now live with the results."

"Still got the matches gas and marshmellows..."

Previous version ="Still got the matches gas and marshmellows..."

Latest version ="We will lead you!! We will lead all to the promise land of pay and benefits."

A320 Driver

"This is some airline, ain't it?"

Sigh...yup.

 

[Piedmont1984]

AWA320

No, you don't always start at the top. The issue with this award is and has been the bottom half of the list.

I was roughly 1000 on the list prior and 1500 after the award. Not crazy about it but I can live with it.

It was our F/O's and furloughees who got hosed in this. Take a closer look at the bottom half and that is where the windfall to the West group took place.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320

No, you don't always start at the top. The issue with this award is and has been the bottom half of the list.

I was roughly 1000 on the list prior and 1500 after the award. Not crazy about it but I can live with it.

It was our F/O's and furloughees who got hosed in this. Take a closer look at the bottom half and that is where the windfall to the West group took place.

Piedmont,

yours is the fist intelligent response. Now let take a look at what you stated. You said that you went from 1000 on the AAA list to 1500 on the combined list correct? Ok now in that move did you lose relative seniority at all and if so how much in percentage?? I'm guessing that you were a Captain in your base prior and you are still a captain in your base after right?

Now as for the furloughees, what everyone forgets is that furlough really means unemployed so in essence these folks were not employed by mainline USAirways at the time of merger announcement. The other point that i would like for you to consider is the fact that AAA was furloughed to 33% which as you know is one hell of a chunk, almost half of the pilot force was furloughed. The reality is that they really had no expectation of ever returning to AAA. This would be further confirmed by many who moved on to better like SWA, JBL, Alaska, CAL and yes AWA.

Now since the merger was announced and the removal of the poor management on the east, I assueme we can agree that the AAA upper management staff was on the weak side. The new USAirways has brought back some 300 of your furloughed pilots and this trend continues. Now we had a pool of hired applicants that were basically flushed as a result of this merger and rightly so as the furloughes should come before those in the pool but not those who were working the past six yrs while the fuloughees were unemployed.

The end result is something that we all will have to live with eventually. I too have lost my opportunity to move left for several years and now with age 65 it almost seems like being a newhire. I can live with that if I paid something much better than what I am now. To take a phrase from Jerry Maguire, it's time to show me the money!!!

I guess things were getting a little too quiet on the board, so AWA320 decided to give the ole pot a stir...with one-sided mis-information.

Keep promoting that goodwill sir!

A320 Driver B)

This is some airline, ain't it?

Ok you show me the misinformation and I will correct myself!! Do I really need to post the award to make my point?? Yes I would like to see some REAL good will. No I am not stiring the pot as you put it but answering the question that you on the east constantly post!!

Many of you are all about threats which is why many of us respond to you the way we do. EASTUS is a good example of this. "either you give us this or else" Well just like with my children when they act in this manner they get nothing as a result of their behavior.

Now in reality I want to see a better payday with better work rules and this can be obtained if we go get it. I am already at the top of the AAA payscale in the right and if I have to continue to sit here on this side of the a/c I want something better for it, don't you??????

 

[EastUS]

Many of you are all about threats which is why many of us respond to you the way we do. EASTUS is a good example of this. "either you give us this or else"

Now in reality I want to see a better payday with better work rules and this can be obtained if we go get it. I am already at the top of the AAA payscale in the right and if I have to continue to sit here on this side of the a/c I want something better for it, don't you??????

AWA320; I'm pleased that you're no longer ranting about "burning the place down", and have seemingly put aside your "gasoline and marshmellows" for now. Spare me the patronizing BS about "my kids", given the frequent displays of your own immaturity hereabouts.

I'll not waste time assailing your notions of what a great deal this "award" is, in your mind at least, for the east, as we certainly know the harsh realities...and you may actually even believe what you post.

Without the slightest need for any mutual admiration...or even personal respect...we do share the need for some resolutions that allow for forward progress as a group.

What do you actually have in mind?

 

[CV580ETOPS]

I don't know maybe it's because I'm a dumb assed Sales Trainer but I'm not seeing any windfall.

You're two of the lowest paid workgroups in your industry d

So explain the windfall.
I judge windfall by W-2 everything else is bullshit

No"cussin"" on the weboard, Robert. 'Gainst the rules,ya'know <_<

[

 

[stormchaser]

The fact of the matter AWA320 is that if it wasn't for all the concessions that the east took you at America West would have gone into bankruptcy, and if you believe anything different than I suggest that US drug tests you because that would be the only reason you spout your garbage. We in the East blame our management for all the cuts we took but I blame that punk drunk Doogie for what went down. Behind the curtain he was controling the concessionary talks and if he didn't get what he wanted the merger would not have taken place and you would be getting it shoved up yours. It is scarry that we have someone behind the controls of an aircraft that has a mindset like yours. You should be controling a Tonka Toy and not a multimillion dollar aircraft. It is bad enough that the pilots made mistakes in their concessionary contracts but for you to throw fuel to the fire just shows the lack of maturity that you have. Grow up and stay away from the koolaid! Have a beautiful day!

PS I'll bet you were in diapers when most of us started with the company! Or maybe you were just a tadpole!