A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?

[chris perry]

I was thinking, and since you mentioned it, are you sure AMFA is not in the real estate game any more? Check out their LM-2 filing with the Department of Labor before you make such a bold statement. It is not uncommon to invest members dues money into some type of investment fund. Before you go there, some have been somewhat eyebrow raising as we have all seen in the movie Hoffa. But none more risky than mortgage backed securities. According to AMFA, they have invested thousands upon thousands of dollars in to this risky venue. For years the association was able to skate by and survive using this risk, but since the housing market and banking crash many of these investments have become little more than worthless pieces of paper holding underwater properties. They may be able to buy their way out eventually, but until then, they could sure use a few thousand new members. Read for yourself here. http://www.dol.gov/ and then choose to bail them out if you want to.

The DOL web site is a complicated site, and it is a bit tricky getting to the LM-2's but if I could figure it out, I am sure you can too. One hint, AMFA does not go simply by AMFA. That would be too easy. You have to look up AIRCRAFT MECHANICS ASN IND.

Just check the TWU stats,they have numerous properties that Members are blatantly overpaying for.

 

[TWU informer]

Speaking of stupid, AMFA is doing the same thing using the internet lobby group Keys To The Capital, or are the called LobbyIt.com? I forget. Check the AMFA web site before throwing stones in glass houses.

There is a huge difference between lobbying specific issues related to the profession, versus spending millions of dollars in campaign financing, super PACS, and not getting a damn thing in return. Besides the millions in wasted dues money, lobbying is actually speaking with who has been elected versus pissing off the opponent of a political campaign that won the election, who knows you funded his opponent, smeared his/her name like you are doing AMFA, and now when you want to lobby him, you are wasting your time because he/she despises everything you are about.

Are you blinded and cannot see the difference? Or are just so busy spreading fear and smear that you refuse to see the truth?

Look up "Lobbying"

and Compare that

"Campaign Financing"

 

[Anomaly]

My point is simple, the teamsters show up to organize? divide us and suddenly you show up on the board and now it turns out you are from the teamsters but you claim your not pro anyone your just anti-AMFA. You start throwing numbers around about how many repair stations their are and telling us to look up Kevin McCormick that AMFA is a ant among giants and bla bla bla.{Fear and Smear}

So what is your solution, I am sure it want be long before you are telling us thay the great size and vast wealth of the teamsters is our best option, well I would point out that the APA and APFA are both ants among giants and have held their own for decades, in fact most people say the APA contract is the last of the great pilot contracts. So what happen to the giant ALPA thru the last decade as I said before you overlook all the beatings taken by the industrial unions and focus on what happened to AMFA 2003 to 2008 you even forget to thank NWA mechanics for the huge bump in pay that they brought to the industry.

Finally there is a drive to remove the teamsters and bring back AMFA at UAL so it is obvious that not everyone feels as you do,the vast majority of folks I know who are represented by AMFA or where at one time say while it is far from perfect it is honest and open they don't lie or do deals behind doors and if i does happen you can hold the person or persons accountable for their actions and that is not the case with the ibt,iam or twu

Finally let me save you the trouble NO THANKS I'm not interested in the ibt.

There has been an AMFA drive at UAL since I started in the mid 80's. I helped in that for some time. In fact, soon after AMFA started in 1962, there has been a campaign on some level to have AMFA as our representatives. It is no great stretch that the die hearts should continue on that journey now.

As for the fear mongering, that is not my intention. I am simply commenting on the statements I have seen on this and other posts on this forum. Should I accuse you of using fear and smear tactics with your comments on back room behind door meetings? Pot/Kettle Pittbull. I have been a member of AMFA after years and years of campaigning and was sadly disappointed. There are back room deals with AMFA too, and because it is so easy to vote in and out, the situation was sometimes worse. Sometimes the truth is a scary thing when our expectations exceed reality. Sorry if I frighten you.

Your argument on the Pilots Union is a non comparison. While there are some third party Pilots, even for the price of a ticket I do not believe the flying public is willing to swallow this idea. The vast number of aircraft mechanics in this country both licensed and non licensed, Union non-Union is what makes the association small in comparison to the number in the overall employee pool. Even if both of our groups joined with them, our numbers would be unsubstantial. Before you say "we need to start somewhere", I'll say we tried that, and AMFA was not the final answer we expected.

As for a solution I have none for you save one. Airline employed mechanics are an endangered species. IAM, AMFA, TWU or IBT, we need to realize that the vendors are out there quietly and quickly growing. Two of these Unions work well together, IBT and TWU. We spend too much time fighting among the rest. You want me to say it? Her it is. I would like to see all airline employed mechanics fall under one single bargaining unit. Of the three I have been involved in, the Teamsters have disappointed me the least (I do not have experience with the TWU but apparently according to this site at least, it may not be a popular choice either).

One last thing, as much as I disagree with AMFA, I respect their members, and my brothers in arms enough not to desicrate their name with small letters. Simple respect is a cheap offering that pays huge dividends. You do not have to like me or agree with my opinion, but trying to belittle other groups in such petty ways does not help your cause.

 

[TWU informer]

As for a solution I have none for you save one. Airline employed mechanics are an endangered species. IAM, AMFA, TWU or IBT, we need to realize that the vendors are out there quietly and quickly growing. Two of these Unions work well together, IBT and TWU. We spend too much time fighting among the rest. You want me to say it? Her it is. I would like to see all airline employed mechanics fall under one single bargaining unit. Of the three I have been involved in, the Teamsters have disappointed me the least (I do not have experience with the TWU but apparently according to this site at least, it may not be a popular choice either).

So it is safe to say that the TWU called the Teamsters in to "bail them out" and that is the only reason they are in Tulsa doing a so-called organizing drive?

That is what I have thought all along and between your statements and Overspeed's comments regarding the "alliance" it is obvious.

You keep complaining about AMFA, but it is only AMFA who has stated all mechanics in one Union is the best idea for years. Now here comes the Teamsters while only involved in a "bail out" claiming the same thing.

AMFA has not failed. The idea has not been tried yet so it could not have failed. Now you want us all to believe that you stealing the AMFA idea under an industrial Constitution is the way to go.

Like I said earlier. You may as well pack your bags and leave, that crap will never fly in Tulsa.

 

[Buck]

The legacy carriers, when negotiating are adamant about not including the postal carriers. Why do you Anomaly believe that the postal carriers be included?

 

[Anomaly]

There is a huge difference between lobbying specific issues related to the profession, versus spending millions of dollars in campaign financing, super PACS, and not getting a damn thing in return. Besides the millions in wasted dues money, lobbying is actually speaking with who has been elected versus pissing off the opponent of a political campaign that won the election, who knows you funded his opponent, smeared his/her name like you are doing AMFA, and now when you want to lobby him, you are wasting your time because he/she despises everything you are about.

Are you blinded and cannot see the difference? Or are just so busy spreading fear and smear that you refuse to see the truth?

Look up "Lobbying"

and Compare that

"Campaign Financing"

As much as we may all hate it, campaign contributions are some of the best return on investments dollars. I personally donate to individuals of both parties if they are in line with my beliefs. I also personally agree with pooling individual donations to further a groups cause. We disagree on this point.

 

[aapitbull]

There has been an AMFA drive at UAL since I started in the mod 80's. I helped in that for some time. In fact, soon after AMFA started in 1962, there has been a campaign on some level to have AMFA as our representatives. It is no great stretch that the die hearts should continue on that journey now.

As for the fear mongering, that is not my intention. I am simply commenting on the statements I have seen on this and other posts on this forum. Should I accuse you of using fear and smear tactics with your comments on back room behind door meetings? Pot/Kettle Pittbull. I have been a member of AMFA after years and years of campaigning and was sadly disappointed. There are back room deals with AMFA too, and because it is so easy to vote in and out, the situation was sometimes worse. Sometimes the truth is a scary thing when our expectations exceed reality. Sorry if I frighten you.

Your argument on the Pilots Union is a non comparison. While there are some third party Pilots, even for the price of a ticket I do not believe the flying public is willing to swallow this idea. The vast number of aircraft mechanics in this country both licensed and non licensed, Union non-Union is what makes the association small in comparison to the number in the overall employee pool. Even if both of our groups joined with them, our numbers would be unsubstantial. Before you say "we need to start somewhere", I'll say we tried that, and AMFA was not the final answer we expected.

As for a solution I have none for you save one. Airline employed mechanics are an endangered species. IAM, AMFA, TWU or IBT, we need to realize that the vendors are out there quietly and quickly growing. Two of these Unions work well together, IBT and TWU. We spend too much time fighting among the rest. You want me to say it? Her it is. I would like to see all airline employed mechanics fall under one single bargaining unit. Of the three I have been involved in, the Teamsters have disappointed me the least (I do not have experience with the TWU but apparently according to this site at least, it may not be a popular choice either).

One last thing, as much as I disagree with AMFA, I respect their members, and my brothers in arms enough not to desicrate their name with small letters. Simple respect is a cheap offering that pays huge dividends. You do not have to like me or agree with my opinion, but trying to belittle other groups in such petty ways does not help your cause.

Finally you admit you are hear to push the IBT, why not just say that in the begining instead of I am pro nothing just anti-amfa. Now everything you say has to be questioned because you started by hideing in the weeds. I have had IAM members from US call me and instead of just saying we are here to talk to me about the IBT, they made up excuses to talk to me and even traveled to see me I found them to be very nice and personable men, but in the end they wanted me to push for the teamsters, something I am unwilling to do at this moment in time.

By the way I put their names in small letters just to see your reaction,someone who is just a bystander as you claim to be would not care,only the devout follower feels that kind of disrespect thanks for once again showing your true colors,by the way spell amfa anyway you want I do not care.

 

[Anomaly]

So it is safe to say that the TWU called the Teamsters in to "bail them out" and that is the only reason they are in Tulsa doing a so-called organizing drive?

That is what I have thought all along and between your statements and Overspeed's comments regarding the "alliance" it is obvious.

Now you lost me. I thought I was on the ropes for my AMFA opinions. Are you suggesting it is a bad thing for two labor Unions to cooperate? I have no idea what is going on in Tulsa, or your individual work area unless you have posted the issue here.

 

[TWU informer]

As much as we may all hate it, campaign contributions are some of the best return on investments dollars. I personally donate to individuals of both parties if they are in line with my beliefs. I also personally agree with pooling individual donations to further a groups cause. We disagree on this point.

Please feel free to list the returns that has come from millions in campaign contributions.

You are nothing more than a pathetic talking parrot that has been brainwashed by the cult politics of the industrial unions.

 

[TWU informer]

Now you lost me. I thought I was on the ropes for my AMFA opinions. Are you suggesting it is a bad thing for two labor Unions to cooperate? I have no idea what is going on in Tulsa, or your individual work area unless you have posted the issue here.

Well let's hear your explanation as to why if two unions really work so well together then we see one raiding the other with a so-called card drive in Tulsa Oklahoma?

Please step away from the Kool-Aid

 

[Anomaly]

Finally you admit you are hear to push the IBT, why not just say that in the begining instead of I am pro nothing just anti-amfa. Now everything you say has to be questioned because you started by hideing in the weeds. I have had IAM members from US call me and instead of just saying we are here to talk to me about the IBT, they made up excuses to talk to me and even traveled to see me I found them to be very nice and personable men, but in the end they wanted me to push for the teamsters, something I am unwilling to do at this moment in time.

By the way I put their names in small letters just to see your reaction,someone who is just a bystander as you claim to be would not care,only the devout follower feels that kind of disrespect thanks for once again showing your true colors,by the way spell amfa anyway you want I do not care.

You guys kill me. Answer the question answer the question answer the question, and when I do offer my personal opinion, you find issue with that too. -sigh-

I am not a simple bystander, obviously, or I would not be spending my time in this forum. I don't think any of us in this discussion could be categorized that way. Does that mean we are all officers of some degree hoping to gain on some individual agenda? I hope not. I'm not, are you? My comments began as a simple challenge to a comment for AMFA. I tried to keep my personal Union out of it, but was accused of being pro TWU. I feel like I am arguing with my teenagers.

I trust in Unions and wish to make our Unions stronger in this country. Doing this means taking a stand to support one. Sometimes support comes by way of sharing personal experience and fact. I have shared facts, as well as my opinion. I am not here with any expectations of changing your minds. I am simply challenging or offering a difference of opinion.

 

[TWU informer]

You guys kill me. Answer the question answer the question answer the question, and when I do offer my personal opinion, you find issue with that too. -sigh-

I am not a simple bystander, obviously, or I would not be spending my time in this forum. I don't think any of us in this discussion could be categorized that way. Does that mean we are all officers of some degree hoping to gain on some individual agenda? I hope not. I'm not, are you? My comments began as a simple challenge to a comment for AMFA. I tried to keep my personal Union out of it, but was accused of being pro TWU. I feel like I am arguing with my teenagers.

I trust in Unions and wish to make our Unions stronger in this country. Doing this means taking a stand to support one. Sometimes support comes by way of sharing personal experience and fact. I have shared facts, as well as my opinion. I am not here with any expectations of changing your minds. I am simply challenging or offering a difference of opinion.

sniffle, sniffle, you almost have me thinking you are the victim here....

NOT

This is not Horizon Air, you best go bring more help.

 

[aapitbull]

You guys kill me. Answer the question answer the question answer the question, and when I do offer my personal opinion, you find issue with that too. -sigh-

I am not a simple bystander, obviously, or I would not be spending my time in this forum. I don't think any of us in this discussion could be categorized that way. Does that mean we are all officers of some degree hoping to gain on some individual agenda? I hope not. I'm not, are you? My comments began as a simple challenge to a comment for AMFA. I tried to keep my personal Union out of it, but was accused of being pro TWU. I feel like I am arguing with my teenagers.

I trust in Unions and wish to make our Unions stronger in this country. Doing this means taking a stand to support one. Sometimes support comes by way of sharing personal experience and fact. I have shared facts, as well as my opinion. I am not here with any expectations of changing your minds. I am simply challenging or offering a difference of opinion.

I am not a officer and have never been a officer in any union just a guy who has had enough of the twu and wants out. The IBT arein my opinion here in Tulsa to help keep that from happening and you showed up at the same time and lied about your affiliation with them so to me you are one and the same.

I accept you do not like amfa and your opinion on the matter is noted but my mind is made up and we are driving for AMFA.

Thanks

 

[Vortilon]

You guys kill me. Answer the question answer the question answer the question, and when I do offer my personal opinion, you find issue with that too. -sigh-

I am not a simple bystander, obviously, or I would not be spending my time in this forum. I don't think any of us in this discussion could be categorized that way. Does that mean we are all officers of some degree hoping to gain on some individual agenda? I hope not. I'm not, are you? My comments began as a simple challenge to a comment for AMFA. I tried to keep my personal Union out of it, but was accused of being pro TWU. I feel like I am arguing with my teenagers.

I trust in Unions and wish to make our Unions stronger in this country. Doing this means taking a stand to support one. Sometimes support comes by way of sharing personal experience and fact. I have shared facts, as well as my opinion. I am not here with any expectations of changing your minds. I am simply challenging or offering a difference of opinion.

I smell a victimized commie.. Anomaly - yet another convienient incarnation of overspeed et al. You can change your username all you want; however, your writing style remains the same. Textbook attempts to give your own personal "unbiased" (sic) opinions. Like we have told your alter egos here on this BB, you're pissing up a rope, if you think anybody will listen to what you have to say.

 

[Anomaly]

So it is safe to say that the TWU called the Teamsters in to "bail them out" and that is the only reason they are in Tulsa doing a so-called organizing drive?

That is what I have thought all along and between your statements and Overspeed's comments regarding the "alliance" it is obvious.

You keep complaining about AMFA, but it is only AMFA who has stated all mechanics in one Union is the best idea for years. Now here comes the Teamsters while only involved in a "bail out" claiming the same thing.

AMFA has not failed. The idea has not been tried yet so it could not have failed. Now you want us all to believe that you stealing the AMFA idea under an industrial Constitution is the way to go.

Like I said earlier. You may as well pack your bags and leave, that crap will never fly in Tulsa.

Yeah, we said that a few years ago too.

Look, I do not have the answers on why the Teamsters are in Tulsa. I jumped in to this forum and thread expressing my opposite opinion of a post by AA89. I wish I had answers to all your questions, and I appreciate you hold me in such high esteem, but I am simply not that guy. Thanks for asking.