I have to admit, after Ospeed claimed he was a CC on D side - I looked at the bid and tried to figure out which one of the guys could need this much help. I think you're on to something. Overspeed is a LIAR! Is that you Don V.?
A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?
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I have to admit, after Ospeed claimed he was a CC on D side - I looked at the bid and tried to figure out which one of the guys could need this much help. I think you're on to something. Overspeed is a LIAR! Is that you Don V.?
Anomaly
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Yeah, how did I know you would ask that?
I can provide the case numbers and an old scanned copy of a letter I have written by AMFA about the issue. But I could not find a link. The cases are old and may be on the web, but I did not take a whole lot of time to look.
AMFA historically began each card drive on the major carriers with promises to be a Craft Union that did not include cleaners. A card drive was always accompanied by a petition on the NMB to have cleaners removed from the mechanics class and craft. This would always fail and the result was normally that there were not sufficient numbers of cards to file for an election.
AMFA was sure that each petition on the NMB would be successful, and repeated the mistake, never having enough cards for an election. It became easy for the IAM to count on this tactic from AMFA and did not fear a real threat of loosing it's mechanics.
They did this at least 4 times that I am aware. First in 1968, United Air Lines, 5 NMB 65, 77 (1968); again in 1977, United Air Lines, 6 NMB 134 (1977); in 1991, Northwest Airlines, 18 NMB 357 (1991) and finally in 1994 is the last case I have record of NMB CR-6545, United Airlines (1994).
After the NMB denied the separation, AMFA would a appeal the case always citing that the NMB was unfair. As I said, the elections were normally called off because AMFA would fail to collect cards from cleaners, and the numbers they did have from Mechanics could not compensate for the loss.
This went on until the late 1990's when AMFA gave up trying to dismiss the cleaners before an election and, changing tactics, focused their funds on winning the mechanics. Despite the IAM's push to get the cleaner vote, AMFA overwhelmingly won representation of the Mechanics at NWA in 1999. This was the end of trying to separate the classes before an election.
Below is a scanned a copy of AMFA's petition to the NMB after the NMB decided to keep the cleaners in the mechanics Class and Craft. I still have many of the campagn material used in the prior AMFA elections at UAL.
Mr. Ernest Dubester
Chairman
National Mediations Board
1301 K. Street, NW, Ste. 250 East
Washington, D. C. 20572-0002
VIA FAX
Re: NMB CASE CR6545 United Airlines, Inc.
Re: NMB Case CR6550 Northwest Airlines
August 1,1994
Dear Mr. Dubester:
I tried to reach you today, but you were out of your off ice. This letter will suffice.
tt has come to our attention that inside information from the NMB regarding the aforementioned cases is emanating from the IAM. We feel we aren't getting a fair, impartial decision from the Board.
Example:A few days before the mediator's decision on CR-6550, dated July 26,1994 the IAM disseminated inforrnation that he would not allow AMFA to present their position to the Board. Their prediction was correct.
The IAM through their shop stewards are now Saying that the UAL case (CR-6545) will be over in a week and they told their supporters not to worry about the AMFA election because it is over.
Coupled with the quick response the mediator wanted in Case No. CR-6545 regarding the inspection of over 14,000 names and stations which would not give us arrgle time to review these nameslstations. We requested more time and recerved it. The mediator in Case No. CR-6550 wants us to formulate an appeal in barely over a week is certainly denying AMFA due process, which is needed to present evidence concerning the crafl or class issues in our case. As of this date we are still wafting permission for an extension d time. We get the imgression that the Board is treating our cases and the thousands of mechanics who signed authorization Cards in a frivolous manner.
Further, the IAM is boastingbragging 8boul your prior affiliation with the AFL-CIO. They ako state that you once worked for an IAM law firm.
We b e l i e that in order to keep the integrity of the NMB and eliminate any hint of impropriety you should recuse yourself from AMFA cases Further, m, Wieth at the NMB should appoint a three-member neutral independent panel, agreeable to all parties, to hear our cases and make a fnal decision on ow 'cases before the NMB.
It is our opinion that the NMB has compromised itself. We fell that the Board is getting too much pressure from the IAM and the airlines to make an honest, impartial decision regarding our cases.
I am awaiting your reply.
Sincerely,
O.V. Delle-Femine
National Director
(The font irregularities are a result of scanning the doc to PDF, then changing to word to copy and paste here).
TWU informer
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And so now the Craft or Class is defined.
What is your point? Were you really a cleaner in the 1990's and this offended you?
Is that really what your AMFA bashing has come to now? Complaining that the craft or class was being defined?
At least this is not adding dead poeple to the list of voters to prevent an election.
At least this is not adding fuelers who had thier jobs outsourced to prevent an election.
And by the way, your letter does not prove your claim about the cleaners to begin with, the letter only proves concern about NBM neutrality of which I can see is always a concern even today.
What is your point? Were you really a cleaner in the 1990's and this offended you?
Is that really what your AMFA bashing has come to now? Complaining that the craft or class was being defined?
At least this is not adding dead poeple to the list of voters to prevent an election.
At least this is not adding fuelers who had thier jobs outsourced to prevent an election.
And by the way, your letter does not prove your claim about the cleaners to begin with, the letter only proves concern about NBM neutrality of which I can see is always a concern even today.
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Sorry aapitbull, I guess I missed that this was a question. My official answer, if that is what you want to call it...
I don't know. Why don't you want the store's clerks at AA?
You continue to try and corner me with these organizing questions, hoping I will suddenly stand and redeem all your suspicions, but I really and truly am not that guy. If you are in Tulsa, you are closer to the IBT organizers than I am. And probably much more connected. Feel free to ask them, then come back and tell me.
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What? No, Good lord, try to keep up....
My point? Correcting an incorrect statement. That's it.
I was only pointing out that as late as 1994 there have been challenges to the craft and class. The debate did not end in the 60's as was posted. Yes, I realize even a document from AMFA will have you doubting, but you will just have to look this one up yourself. I gave you the case numbers.
While your at it, here are some more facts and proof that there have been carrier class and craft determinations made since the 60's.
http://files.ali-aba.org/thumbs/datastorage/skoobesruoc/pdf/06SullivanCarrierElecCH094_thumb.pdf
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Thanks, now show me some proof that sticking with either the TWU or going to the IBT is not going to lead to more of same crap we have had for over 60 years in this profession.
That is what is before us to discuss.
All you can do is invoke negative institutional politics into the discussion, no ideas, no change of direction from the known industrial unionism that we have now.
When do you plan to get us the details on how things will improve if we accept your idea of the best way? WE have been losing jobs for years, our buying power has dimenished, and organized labor as a whole is in delcine. What about let's talk about that for a while instead of your negatives?
I still thnk that being in a Craft Union that will focus all of the time and resources into promoting and advancing the profession is the best idea for the long term goal. You disagree? OK fine, spell out in detail and show me proof of any ideas of Industrial Union change of direction that will even resemble change from the same old political arena ideas of the last 60 years. Because the way I view it, the Industrial Union cannot even publicy make the statement that it is wrong for Mechanics wages to be so close and low to baggage handler or stock clerks pay without poltically offending other members of the Industrial Union. You may find that meaningless, but I view it as the problem. I am tired of the Aircraft Maintenance profession being pigeon holed into the "ground worker" analogy that includes lesser skills and accountability.
So let us hear your ideas, and since the IBT and the TWU are known liars you must provide some proof of action being taken towards change.
I know why they are telling the Store's clerks they do not want they right now and you brought this up by saying AMFA was self righteous so I asked what is the IBT doing, the difference is AMFA is a craft union and seek only to represent a certain craft like ALPA and the pilots but the IBT is a catch all Industrial union so by telling the store's clerks they are not interested they are simpling lying about their motives and the present time, two very different things.
As far as the cleaners go there have been at least 4 drives at AA and I have never seen or heard of the letters in question attached to our drives so it would seem that it is something aimed at the IAM and as Informer says at NMB neutrality and surely you are not going to say that the NMB is neutral.
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Well my point and what I said is it has been decided since the 60's and has not changed. I said yes AMFA and other unions have argued over the make up of class and craft many times in AMFA's case unsuccesfully, and I unlike you I do not research to try to spin a issue on {Clintonisms it depends on the definiton of is is is} I do not claim to be a expert on all things NMB.
If all you have is AMFA has fought for a Mechanic's class and craft I believe most of us understand why. The coalition partners twu/IBT/iam have no interest in our craft and have fought to make us all ground workers as the news refers to us.
nmb.gov
Search RLA cases on google.
Help yourself I am already debating with Mr Clintonism
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Try doing an open minded review of the NWA/AMFA Presidential Emergency Board hearing.
Good God, you have to be kidding...right? Another alias - say it isn't so.
What have they done for the class and craft you ask?
Who was the first airline that paid license premium?
Do your home work. When you find out who the airline was also find out which Class and Craft union was representing the AMTs at that airline. This union initiated the license premium, they did not inherit it.
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No, actually I agree with your statement above (the one in bold).
However, after many years of careful review of many publications and web sites on the issues of aircraft mechanics and MRO's in this country, I truly believe that organizing the airline mechanics into a single craft union will do no good unless the MRO's are organized also.
After the financial hit in 2001, MRO usage boomed as the airlines found savings in the FAR 145 repair stations. The airline employed mechanics ranks shrunk and the MRO's began hiring (every airline except AA). This was the time that all unions, IBT IAM included should have been organizing these groups. They failed too. I am not arguing that. My question, (and I directed this to the National Director years ago) why didn't AMFA, the mechanics craft union, take advantage of the situation then?
As a Craft Union, this should have been a no brainier. Especially then, when AMFA represented close to 20,000 mechanics. It could have been easy to begin organizing drives at the MRO's.
I am not arguing that ALL the Unions failed. But only one calls themselves a Craft Union.
