3 TWU Groups Had Enough

[OldGuy@AA]

They have part-time, do you in maintenance?
 
And AA does on-call maintenance for other airlines and works some of their flights also, I know US use to use them in certain European Cities, did you ask AA to share that money with you?
 
You wont further your class and craft as long as you look down at others for what they negotiated.
 
Lets see Bob Owens is a mechanic, why couldnt he be the savior for AMTs at AA and demand what you all THINK you deserve?

We AMTs are actually looking up at every other work group in the TWU because of all we have the worst benefits by far.  I am stuck with what the TWU agrees to and I vote no every time but the TWU scares enough members to vote yes or adds a cookie for a few to ensure a yes vote so some can take money and run while the rest of us are doomed to live under the draconian rules and lousy pay and benefits they force on us.  This is what we live with and what you will live with with the alliance if they are allowed to go through with it.
  LaLi- Separate negotiations do not mean different benefits.  If you have been reading this for a while you will remember that in 85 FSCs demanded lump sum payments instead of % raises so we had to negotiate the same money again in the next contract.  AMTs wanted % raises so we demanded separate negotiations.  The TWU tried to block it and then punished us by screwing us out of benefits that the other groups kept.  Need I remind you that in 2003 the AMTs lost more money and more benefits than any other work group?  It was wrong no matter how you look at it.  I (and all AMTs) are second class citizens in our own union and many of us are sick and tired of it.  Bringing up separate negotiations is what the TWU does to try to justify screwing us.  We want 100% sick time and 6 weeks vacation but the TWU gave it away.  They didn't give sick time pay away for FSC or Stores and they didn't give Stores 6 weeks vacation away.  That is totally BS.  Plain and simple.  We had to get away from FSC in negotiations to get any raises in our pay.  So the TWU screwed us out of benefits.

 

[700UW]

And who voted and ratified your CBA?
 
Was it the Negotiating Committee?
 
Was it the TWU International or the ATD?
 
Nope, it was the rank and file Mechanic and Related at AA.
 
How come Bob Owens wasnt your savior?
 
And you do realize AA was in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy and forced the unions into the Section 1113 C process?

 

[Bob Owens]

Oh yes that's smart.
Go ask a Fed Ex driver what they feel about GFT (Guaranteed Fair Treatment) as it's called?

Just dont ask a Fed Ex mechanic if he would trade places with us. Know several who quit AA and went there. They make a lot more money than we do, have a better 401K, more Holidays and sick time as well. We used to make more than them.

Not saying its right but mechanics tend to be treated differently than FSC both in Union and Non-union shops. The license does provide some leverage. Fed Ex treats their mechanics well for two reasons, to get their Airplanes and to keep the Unions out.

Generally, Mechanics don't want Unions so they can screw off and have a grievance process to protect them. When a mechanic screws up even a contract cant protect him if the FAA yanks his tickets. Mechanics want a Union to get the best contract possible, that means more money than they would get if they were not Union. Currently we are paying $700/year to make $10k less than non-union. we are not getting a good deal. Those are the hard facts.


The fact is the mechanics here have every right to be pissed off, sure everyone took a hit in the industry, but nobody took a hit like we did, even in BK we had to give up more per person than anyone else in the TWU, on top of the fact we gave up more in 2003 as well and nobody else in the TWU is over $10hr behind SWA or $15/hr behind UPS.

The fact is that the Little (and prior) team did a lot of damage, don't bother trying to throw out excuses, all that does is piss people off even more, its as if you are saying we are where we should be, face the facts and see what can be done to fix it. First step has been taken, Little and his gang are gone. This Alliance has to go away, the negotiations structure needs an overhaul, the Title II issue needs to be settled once and for all and like it or not Title III needs to restructure their Locals as well. GEO pay is a must as well if they want to keep a decent Volume of work in house. I read where Eagle has it, why? Because their rates are so low they cant get anyone, well congratulations thats pretty much where we are at now as well.

 

[Bob Owens]

And who voted and ratified your CBA?
 
Was it the Negotiating Committee?
 
Was it the TWU International or the ATD?
 
Nope, it was the rank and file Mechanic and Related at AA.
 
How come Bob Owens wasnt your savior?
 
And you do realize AA was in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy and forced the unions into the Section 1113 C process?

The contract passed as the ATD, along with AA, the Chamber of Commerce in Tulsa waged a fear campaign against Tulsa and Title II to get it passed, kind of like what you are trying to do with the Alliance. Still they needed to offer a $40k buyout to squeak it through by less than 1%.


BTW, we have had Part Time in our contract for 30 years.

 

[WeAAsles]

Just dont ask a Fed Ex mechanic if he would trade places with us. Know several who quit AA and went there. They make a lot more money than we do, have a better 401K, more Holidays and sick time as well. We used to make more than them.
Not saying its right but mechanics tend to be treated differently than FSC both in Union and Non-union shops. The license does provide some leverage. Fed Ex treats their mechanics well for two reasons, to get their Airplanes and to keep the Unions out.
Generally, Mechanics don't want Unions so they can screw off and have a grievance process to protect them. When a mechanic screws up even a contract cant protect him if the FAA yanks his tickets. Mechanics want a Union to get the best contract possible, that means more money than they would get if they were not Union.
The fact is the mechanics here have every right to be pissed off, sure everyone took a hit in the industry, but nobody took a hit like we did, even in BK we had to give up more per person than anyone else in the TWU, on top of the fact we gave up more in 2003 as well and nobody else in the TWU is over $10hr behind SWA or $15/hr behind UPS.
The fact is that the Little (and prior) team did a lot of damage, don't bother trying to throw out excuses, all that does is piss people off even more, its as if you are saying we are where we should be, face the facts and see what can be done to fix it. First step has been taken, Little and his gang are gone. This Alliance has to go away, the negotiations structure needs an overhaul, the Title II issue needs to be settled once and for all and like it or not Title III needs to restructure their Locals as well. GEO pay is a must as well if they want to keep a decent Volume of work in house. I read where Eagle has it, why? Because their rates are so low they cant get anyone, well congratulations thats pretty much where we are at now as well.

Great idea. Let's duke it out with the IAM. Then we can duke it out with the IBT again. Maybe start a fight with the CWA too? Who else? Unions fighting unions all the way to the grave. Where do I sign up? All so a few putzes can keep a leather chair and pretend their important.

Sorry Bob this is where you and I part on our ideologies.

 

[Bob Owens]

They have part-time, do you in maintenance?
 
And AA does on-call maintenance for other airlines and works some of their flights also, I know US use to use them in certain European Cities, did you ask AA to share that money with you?
 
You wont further your class and craft as long as you look down at others for what they negotiated.
 

Yes we have had Part Time for 30 years.

European AA mechanics are not under our contracts, luckily for them because they earn around $10 more than us, get a lot more Vacation than we do, more Holidays, more sick time and on average they don't have to lay out $7k a year on Health benefits.

Problem is we were not allowed to negotiate, thats why we have the DFR lawsuit going forward. Don split us into three groups, the other two got to negotiate, then when they reached a deal they roll called it in based on 2007 headcount. Then they had their lawyers and economist make videos telling them to accept the deals, had TV spots with the Chamber of Commerce (long time enemy of labor) in on the pitch as well.

 

[700UW]

The contract passed as the ATD, along with AA, the Chamber of Commerce in Tulsa waged a fear campaign against Tulsa and Title II to get it passed, kind of like what you are trying to do with the Alliance. Still they needed to offer a $40k buyout to squeak it through by less than 1%.


BTW, we have had Part Time in our contract for 30 years.

But do you have any part time mechanics currently?
 
So you are telling me the membership is smart enough to fix airplanes, but not to educate themselves on the proposed CBA they were voting on?
 
I say its a cop out, blame everyone else except your fellow mechanic and related brothers and sisters who actually had the power to vote yes or no, and the majority voted yes, now didnt they?

 

[700UW]

Yes we have had Part Time for 30 years.

European AA mechanics are not under our contracts, luckily for them because they earn around $10 more than us, get a lot more Vacation than we do, more Holidays, more sick time and on average they don't have to lay out $7k a year on Health benefits.

Problem is we were not allowed to negotiate, thats why we have the DFR lawsuit going forward. Don split us into three groups, the other two got to negotiate, then when they reached a deal they roll called it in based on 2007 headcount. Then they had their lawyers and economist make videos telling them to accept the deals, had TV spots with the Chamber of Commerce (long time enemy of labor) in on the pitch as well.

And the laws in Europe are completely different than the US, most of those things are legislated, not contractual, and the cost of living and taxes in Europe is a lot more than in the US, just look at a gallon of gas, I paid $3.39 cents today, in England it is over $2 more per gallon than in the US.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

How come Bob Owens wasnt your savior?

^^^^^^^^idiot alert^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

700 actually negotiated himself out of a job and didnt know it because he didnt read the contract he negotiated.

He finally had to pack it in and leave. There were other circumstances at the local...care to talk about that 700? The members want to know.

Who the hell are you to criticize Bob? All you are is some IAM sycophant that cut an under the table deal. 
 
Rumor has it you don't even work for the airline anymore. They must have offered you something good.
 
What did the IAM do to "BUY" your loyalty 700UW?
 
The members want to know.
 

Sorry Bob this is where you and I part on our ideologies.

You don't have an ideology, what you have is propaganda. 
 
Put another way 
 

 

[DallasConehead]

The fact the Title II issue needs to be settled once and for all

Good luck with that. Title 2 will always be the die hard TWU guys that will pass the BS agreements because, they make good money for what they do. Hell, I'd change florescent lights for that money. No education, no degree,  no FAA breathing down their throats,no tools,other then a paint brush, making just $5 less? Sweet deal for them...

And the laws in Europe are completely different than the US, most of those things are legislated, not contractual, and the cost of living and taxes in Europe is a lot more than in the US, just look at a gallon of gas, I paid $3.39 cents today, in England it is over $2 more per gallon than in the US.

Your lame, they have a public transit system there that makes ours look like child's play. Fact is you don't need a car there between the taxis, buses and trains.

 

[700UW]

I see you are the master of misinformation and lies.
 
Are you going to be joining team?
 
The post is about the IAM and TWU,not I.
 
But I hope you have deep pockets, like Tim, you are making accusations, so go ahead and post proof of them, or you need to cease and desist, with your lies.
 
There never was or will be any deal from the IAM or US for me, so keep trying with the character assassination instead of debating the topic at hand, oh wait, you dont have the intelligence and the brain power to stick to the topic at hand.
 
And Bob is a grown man, he can defend and answer for himself, he doesnt need a right wing nut job to defend him at all.
 
By the way, where has your Buddy Tim gone? See tim is gone, do you want to meet the same fate?
 
And I like your selfie, I see you are showing your best side.
 
And no one has bought my loyalty, I use my brain, try it sometime, you might actually learn something.

 

[Bob Owens]

Great idea. Let's duke it out with the IAM. Then we can duke it out with the IBT again. Maybe start a fight with the CWA too? Who else? Unions fighting unions all the way to the grave. Where do I sign up? All so a few putzes can keep a leather chair and pretend their important.
Sorry Bob this is where you and I part on our ideologies.

Where did that come from?


No need to duke it out, do what is best for the members for a change and stop focusing on just the dues. Union members are told to put aside their immediate self interests so collectively we can attain even better deals, to unite as one against management, yet here we see two Unions who cast aside that whole ideology of Unity as one in one union because they want to hold on to their dues. No other union on the property had to duke it out, the Pilots Unions did what was best for the pilots and so did the FA's. One bowed out for the betterment of the members. Why cant the Industrial Unions put their members first like those Unions did? Are you saying that the IAM and TWU are incapable of doing whats best for the members and would rather put the baby to the sword than let the other have "their" members? Do you really think the IAM has a shot at getting 50% with that turd of a deal they just gave a company that reported a $1.5 billion profit? As angry as people are with the TWU the IAM killed any chance of getting cards from AA mechanics with that contract.

The fact is this Alliance takes everything the membership doesn't like about what we have now and makes it worse. How does having a mechanic in Boston, Philly, or DC being put into the IAM while mechanics in NY are in the TWU? It splits up the line again. How does having people we don't elect decide everything for us make things better? The IAM does have direct elections but we don't, the Alliance puts all decision making in the respective Internationals. Its deliberately divisive and very undemocratic.

You clearly are a business unionist. Thats why you like what is clearly a business agreement between two unions and not based on true Union ideology.

Under this alliance the members have less say than they had under the TWU, already three contract groups have put in to leave. Keep going with this and the IAM and TWU will only have Fleet at AA.

 

[700UW]

Good luck with that. Title 2 will always be the die hard TWU guys that will pass the BS agreements because, they make good money for what they do. Hell, I'd change florescent lights for that money. No education, no degree,  no FAA breathing down their throats,no tools,other then a paint brush, making just $5 less? Sweet deal for them...
Your lame, they have a public transit system there that makes ours look like child's play. Fact is you don't need a car there between the taxis, buses and trains.

False, the cities have a great public transportation system, the countryside and small town dont, BS.

 

[Harold Nads]

 
And no one has bought my loyalty, I use my brain, try it sometime, you might actually learn something.

 
Don't you drive the honey wagon? How does one mentally get prepared to service lavs?

 

[700UW]

Nope I dont, and see there you go, typical elitist mechanic.
 
Attack the classification and person.
 
One's classification has nothing to do with their intelligence, education, knowledge and skill set.
 
And I was a Stock Clerk at US, use to be utility, and if you knew anything Line Utility was farmed out in 2005 after the second chapter 11.
 
Yep your Mechanics at the negotiating table for AA did a great job.