2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

I was not the one who initiated mechanics should stay out of fleet service discussions. If you are going to preach to me, then preach to those in your group as well.
You only seem to be preoccupied with my hijacking a fleet service thread but you give a pass to fellow fleet service members who hijack a mechanics thread.  It is a two way street.

Actually I like a lot of the things you say and talk about when it's outside the agenda. The two groups should talk more often about each others issues actually. I may not have your particular set of skills but I feel my group and our issues should matter just as much as yours. And every other oppressed worker who's just trying to earn a decent living. "Decent" shouldn't be too much to ask by anyone.

And I don't control other people my friend so whatever they do or wherever they post is on them.

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually I would support it. Contrary to how I may be perceived here, I support all airline workers as we have been taking a beating since the early 80s. I do not advocate outsourcing of any job. 
My posts are a result of my experience in this industry.

Nice answer Metal.

Thanks.

 

[MetalMover]

Actually I like a lot of the things you say and talk about when it's outside the agenda. The two groups should talk more often about each others issues actually. I may not have your particular set of skills but I feel my group and our issues should matter just as much as yours. And every other oppressed worker who's just trying to earn a decent living. "Decent" shouldn't be too much to ask by anyone.

And I don't control other people my friend so whatever they do or wherever they post is on them.

Well said....Unlike WT who hijacks every thread on Delta's behalf, I am an AA employee. Therefore I do not see it has hijacking a thread but rather injecting myself in a conversation that may or may not affect all TWU workers.
I have been in this business before deregulation set in. I have seen nothing but a steady deterioration of airline jobs and the pay and benefits that accompany them. 
When I began in this industry, being employed by an airline was something to be proud of and a subject of envy..no matter WHAT job one did....Those days are long gone, thanks to greed and outsourcing, just to name a couple of reasons.

 

[MetalMover]

Nice answer Metal.

Thanks.

One more thing...I do NOT advocate outsourcing of work in any way shape or form to benefit myself.

 

[ograc]

Well said....Unlike WT who hijacks every thread on Delta's behalf, I am an AA employee. Therefore I do not see it has hijacking a thread but rather injecting myself in a conversation that may or may not affect all TWU workers.
I have been in this business before deregulation set in. I have seen nothing but a steady deterioration of airline jobs and the pay and benefits that accompany them. 
When I began in this industry, being employed by an airline was something to be proud of and a subject of envy..no matter WHAT job one did....Those days are long gone, thanks to greed and outsourcing, just to name a couple of reasons.

Thanks to deregulation, cut throat fare wars, fuel costs, corporate greed and the practice of outsourcing jobs to save a buck the airlines have become nothing more than glorified bus lines with wings. Careers and middle class jobs flushed from the industry. Organized labor has been unable to stop the continual erosion. 

 

[MetalMover]

Thanks to deregulation, cut throat fare wars, fuel costs, corporate greed and the practice of outsourcing jobs to save a buck the airlines have become nothing more than glorified bus lines with wings. Careers and middle class jobs flushed from the industry. Organized labor has been unable to stop the continual erosion. 

How true... The unions were more concerned with union dues and just trying to keep what they had........contract after contract after contract.......

 

[WeAAsles]

It does seem like some unions do focus a little too much on the dues and I think it's a bit of a reason why they keep losing numbers. I've read too many stories from too many unions.

If they concentrated a little less on the perks when you reach the higher levels I think they would have a lot more members. Grassroots.

 

[ograc]

How true... The unions were more concerned with union dues and just trying to keep what they had........contract after contract after contract.......

That may be true, although, there would be some that would dispute it. Let us not forget, however, who the enemy truly is. It has never been the unions demanding concessionary contracts. Historically, it is the company. Your own employer, demonstrating what they think of you, in contract negotiations. Let's lay blame where it truly belongs. Know thy enemy!  

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

That may be true, although, there would be some that would dispute it. Let us not forget, however, who the enemy truly is. It has never been the unions demanding concessionary contracts. Historically, it is the company. Your own employer, demonstrating what they think of you, in contract negotiations. Let's lay blame where it truly belongs. Know thy enemy!  

The company has a responsibility to their stockholders to control costs. This includes labor costs. You want to place blame fine, place blame where it is due. You have a UNION that has basically told the American Airlines membership that what they want does not matter because THEY own the contract. The other side of the coin is you have a membership that puts up with the TWU. Lastly, and probably the most relevant, you continue to work for less and less money. American Airlines knows they can lower your benefits and pay (sometimes by stalling raises over time and reaping benefits due to inflation and sometimes by just outright making cuts) with little to no consequences.
 
At the end of the day you choose to keep the TWU (the membership as a whole) and you choose to stay employed by American Airlines (personal choice). You have communicated to American Airlines and the TWU that it is OK to take advantage of you time and time again. They take advantage of you because you told them they could. They take advantage of you because you gave them permission.
 
I hate to be so blunt but the truth is the truth.
 
If you are tired of the AA/TWU crap then communicate to them that the choices they make have a consequence. No more free rides.
 
Getting rid of the TWU would be a good start. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

How true... The unions were more concerned with union dues and just trying to keep what they had........contract after contract after contract.......

yeah, concerned about dues and that wont change but i do think that the iam intl has made some beneficial moves, lately, to secure those dues with better scope at southwest and working with the twu on the association idea to get them to stand down so the usairways stand alone talks could have more favorable results. And personally dealing with the intl over an officer election dispute, i must say i was surprised that they listened and agreed with me that district 141 should have a new election.

Moving forward, i also like the international presidents stance to uphold the Association. Thats from my perspective as someone that thinks the Association is beneficial to iam members.
So i dont mind them being moreso concerned with dues when it means more scope and better leverage in negotiations.

 

[robbedagain]

orgac  earlier I told you it was going good for us with handling AA metal   I will admit this  I am wrong on this to an extent.   Fridays and Saturdays are pretty bad as we barely have 10 rampers to do the job for both sides.  and delays are piling up   for example  our phx flight the other day took an 11 min ramp delay   personal shortage  and again yesterday for 21 min delay  and a lot of the other flights on both sides are late  but I fault mgmt. for failure to hire more of the former ENVOY folks    At one point they had around 30 folks  and now may be 4 or 5 of them were hired.   although I have heard rumors that our mgr is trying to get as many help as possible..  only time will tell     in the beginning it was good bec we had a number of the folks during the transition period  then it got worse after jan 5th    It is what it is  and we aren't gonna rush  

 

[AANOTOK]

orgac  earlier I told you it was going good for us with handling AA metal   I will admit this  I am wrong on this to an extent.   Fridays and Saturdays are pretty bad as we barely have 10 rampers to do the job for both sides.  and delays are piling up   for example  our phx flight the other day took an 11 min ramp delay   personal shortage  and again yesterday for 21 min delay  and a lot of the other flights on both sides are late  but I fault mgmt. for failure to hire more of the former ENVOY folks    At one point they had around 30 folks  and now may be 4 or 5 of them were hired.   although I have heard rumors that our mgr is trying to get as many help as possible..  only time will tell     in the beginning it was good bec we had a number of the folks during the transition period  then it got worse after jan 5th    It is what it is  and we aren't gonna rush  

Not sure how US did it in the past robbed, but the old AA tried getting it done with the least amount of people as possible.
Under the Doug regime, we will see if that changes. Also, I hear that some in management are trying to get more shifts being as assigned, meaning you don't have a specific gate or work area that you bid, you basically bid your start times and days off and at managements discretion, that can move you anywhere whenever they want. (i.e. dump this plane, follow me, load this plane, follow me, push this plane out...repeat) Right now at AA, there are as assigned folks, but for the most part we are allowed to bid gates, bag rooms, lavs etc...They are trying to shrink that (rumor)

 

[WeAAsles]

Not sure how US did it in the past robbed, but the old AA tried getting it done with the least amount of people as possible.
Under the Doug regime, we will see if that changes. Also, I hear that some in management are trying to get more shifts being as assigned, meaning you don't have a specific gate or work area that you bid, you basically bid your start times and days off and at managements discretion, that can move you anywhere whenever they want. (i.e. dump this plane, follow me, load this plane, follow me, push this plane out...repeat) Right now at AA, there are as assigned folks, but for the most part we are allowed to bid gates, bag rooms, lavs etc...They are trying to shrink that (rumor)

Basically impossible to not bid by gates in hubs. Far too large and it could not be done to have the entire workforce basically be as assigned. Small stations can and already do work out of a central location and are assigned flights.

 

[robbedagain]

I cant vouch for hubs  but given our city  we have over 30 flights a day combined AA and US   we bid by start times..    Our situation is mgmt. fails to get us help     under PMUS we used to have a lot of people signing up for OT but in agreeing with you Annotok the old US also did it with 3 peeps on a flight  but it quickly gets out of hand fast now when we have DFW MIA ORD and JFK coming in together with our CLT PHX flights not to mention PHL flights.   then they decide to pull 1 person off our PHX leaving just 2 of us to work it  with 100 bags off and mail  so the delays just start piling up.    Only time will tell if this gets fixed  but for now I have doubts til im proven wrong.

 

[Kev3188]

Not sure how US did it in the past robbed, but the old AA tried getting it done with the least amount of people as possible.
Under the Doug regime, we will see if that changes. Also, I hear that some in management are trying to get more shifts being as assigned, meaning you don't have a specific gate or work area that you bid, you basically bid your start times and days off and at managements discretion, that can move you anywhere whenever they want. (i.e. dump this plane, follow me, load this plane, follow me, push this plane out...repeat) Right now at AA, there are as assigned folks, but for the most part we are allowed to bid gates, bag rooms, lavs etc...They are trying to shrink that (rumor)

Real Time Staffing looks great on paper, but doesn't factor in all of the things that happen on a daily basis. Maybe the flight you're on is running late. Now you're late to the next flight you're supposed to bring in, etc...
 
 

Basically impossible to not bid by gates in hubs. Far too large and it could not be done to have the entire workforce basically be as assigned. Small stations can and already do work out of a central location and are assigned flights.

Yep.

At our line stations, we work whatever shows up. Divided into crews-and then assigned flights accordingly-but nothing gate-specific.