2015 AMT Discussion

[blue collar]

At US you could voluntarily bid back to mechanic and your lead time would continue to accrue. I never liked the premium seniority, I always thought mechanic time should be used for all 'premium' spots. If you guys think that just because someone never bid a lead job, that they never spent a day as a lead then you're crazy. I don't know how they're going to work this out, but I'm sure there'll be hurt feelings on both sides.

 

[700UW]

The stability period is 12 months now.

 

[Rogallo]

JMHO.......LUS seniority system sucks!
 
Holy crap! How many seniorities can you have? Or do you need?

 

[700UW]

You can have Utility, Lead Utility, Stores, Lead Stock Clerk, Mechanic, Lead Mechanic, Inspector, Lead Inspector, and MOC, there are actually more, in the M&R CBA, there are Material Controllers, Planners, Tech Docs etc....
 
 
Seems to have worked fine since 1949.
 
Read the CBA:
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/IAM-MECHANIC-AGREEMENT-July-18-2014_FINAL.pdf

 

[chilokie1]

I will support any system that removes the juniority rules in the LAA contract, for the benefit to
the LUS guys can some one explain the juniority rules (I do not understand it myself enough to
explain it). An example of how screwed up it is when TASEL shut down, the senior employees 
could not bump a junior employee at DFW (just across town). Many took a huge payout and 
had to transfer to TULE, or keep their pay and transfer to LAX or SFO while junior employees 
in the same work group stayed in the DFW area because of the juniority system. I may have 
some of the specifics wrong so if someone can help me with this to explain it correctly I would
appreciate it. 

 

[usjacket]

I always thought it wrong that a lead mechanic or inspector that bid back to mechanic, kept  accruing seniority as a lead or inspector. Just one opinion of many I guess.

 

[Kev3188]

The lead time would stop if "bidding" back into a mechanic position. In order to keep your lead time, you would have to exercise your seniority to the fullest extent at your point in order to keep it. If you voluntarily bid back to or bumped a mechanic when you still had a lead junior to you, you would forfeit your seniority.

This is the exact same way it was at NWA/Republic, etc.

I'm in the outside here, but my suggestion would be to study any sort of integration/seniority/RIF language in the Pre-BK NW CBAs (ESSC and AMT both) to see some very clean/clear guidelines to possibly adopt.

 

[Vortilon]

I will support any system that removes the juniority rules in the LAA contract, for the benefit to
the LUS guys can some one explain the juniority rules (I do not understand it myself enough to
explain it). An example of how screwed up it is when TASEL shut down, the senior employees 
could not bump a junior employee at DFW (just across town). Many took a huge payout and 
had to transfer to TULE, or keep their pay and transfer to LAX or SFO while junior employees 
in the same work group stayed in the DFW area because of the juniority system. I may have 
some of the specifics wrong so if someone can help me with this to explain it correctly I would
appreciate it. 

 
You know, it's funny you say that.  AFW has been rumored to close for over ten years.  To their credit, many saw the writing on the wall, and transferred out when openings occurred across town. So the people remaining essentially knew they were rolling the dice.  When the announcement was official, the gamblers were all scrambling.  The juniority system was about to be employed.  DFW doesn't have any junior people to speak of.   Conveniently enough, it seems some positions did open up at DFW as well as DWH.  We were already over staffed at DFW.  Special favors?  Rewarding the gamblers?  Worked out pretty well for many of the AFW refugees from what I have seen.  For the record, I don't like the juniority system either.  I also don't like special deals being made either.  So there is more than one way to look at how this whole AFW closure played out. 
 
How is the 20 year DFW guy gonna feel when management decides to cut headcount at DFW by 25 in a year, and he is in the bottom 25?  This while knowing - 50 AFW guys were allowed to come over to DFW in the last year by somehow getting around the juniority system.  How is that fair?  Again, rewarding the gamblers.  I'm guessing that 20 year guy may even have a case for being denied fair representation - should a situation like that occur. 

 

[AA89]

 
You know, it's funny you say that.  AFW has been rumored to close for over ten years.  To their credit, many saw the writing on the wall, and transferred out when openings occurred across town. So the people remaining essentially knew they were rolling the dice.  When the announcement was official, the gamblers were all scrambling.  The juniority system was about to be employed.  DFW doesn't have any junior people to speak of.   Conveniently enough, it seems some positions did open up at DFW as well as DWH.  We were already over staffed at DFW.  Special favors?  Rewarding the gamblers?  Worked out pretty well for many of the AFW refugees from what I have seen.  For the record, I don't like the juniority system either.  I also don't like special deals being made either.  So there is more than one way to look at how this whole AFW closure played out. 
 
How is the 20 year DFW guy gonna feel when management decides to cut headcount at DFW by 25 in a year, and he is in the bottom 25?  This while knowing - 50 AFW guys were allowed to come over to DFW in the last year by somehow getting around the juniority system.  How is that fair?  Again, rewarding the gamblers.  I'm guessing that 20 year guy may even have a case for being denied fair representation - should a situation like that occur. 

AFW has been "rumored" to be closing since it opened. For over 20 years it was just a rumor. Who the hell makes a career decision based on rumors?
When the hangar shut down in 2013 the senior guys were "rewarded" with being able to stay at TAESL. Those same guys are now forced all over the system while lower seniority guys are safe at DFW and DWH. Those low seniority guys who have been at DWH for 3 years are now pissed because higher seniority guys are bumping into DWH.
It's a mess and being able to exercise seniority would fix it but I agree it has gone on so long that changing it now would seem unfair. But if seniority doesn't count during a layoff then why not just put us all in alphabetical order and call it a day? BTW, DFW amazingly had zero openings in January where there were many openings at the other class 1 stations around the system.. Equally amazing is that 6 openings appeared at DFW 2 weeks after TAESL closed.
How are the 50 guys that transferred to DFW in the last year "getting around the juniority system"? They bid by seniority just like they have since AFW opened and every other transfer around the system has worked. In the event of a layoff, the lower seniority guy should never be surprised or upset that he is going to get displaced or laid off. We have all been there.

 

[Rogallo]

All great arguments for TRUE seniority!

 

[swamt]

At US you could voluntarily bid back to mechanic and your lead time would continue to accrue. I never liked the premium seniority, I always thought mechanic time should be used for all 'premium' spots. If you guys think that just because someone never bid a lead job, that they never spent a day as a lead then you're crazy. I don't know how they're going to work this out, but I'm sure there'll be hurt feelings on both sides.

True that.
 

JMHO.......LUS seniority system sucks!
 
Holy crap! How many seniorities can you have? Or do you need?

Yes it does sux. That's the iam for you. And that is who is at the controls of the first asso contract at the new AA, Hmmmm...

 

[dfw gen]

i am curious how the dispatchers did layoffs before the new ta and how they are doing it in the new ta. might be an indicator where the company wants to go when the get around to actually doing something. seniority or juniority? and what is the compensation/severance package?
 
 
i would like to say that it is a sad thing that happened in Belgium and they have my prayers and sympatheies.  but cant help and wonder what effect it will have waiting for the last 15 months to actually start doing something about negotiations?

 

[conehead777]

i am curious how the dispatchers did layoffs before the new ta and how they are doing it in the new ta. might be an indicator where the company wants to go when the get around to actually doing something. seniority or juniority? and what is the compensation/severance package?
 
 
i would like to say that it is a sad thing that happened in Belgium and they have my prayers and sympatheies.  but cant help and wonder what effect it will have waiting for the last 15 months to actually start doing something about negotiations?

 
my prayers for Belgium also wondering how that will effect our contract also.  

(Edited by moderator)

 

[MetalMover]

 
my prayers for Belgium also wondering how that will effect our contract also.  

(Edited by moderator)

Yes, very sad. This is the new world we live in. 
If this event is the beginning of more attacks, then I could see this having a negative effect on this industry.  Profits could subsequently be impacted possibly causing a tone in negotiations to be altered with respect to compensation.

 

[Vortilon]

Yes, very sad. This is the new world we live in. 
If this event is the beginning of more attacks, then I could see this having a negative effect on this industry.  Profits could subsequently be impacted possibly causing a tone in negotiations to be altered with respect to compensation.

 
I know it gives me the warm fuzzies when I see a contract cabin cleaner get off his prayer rug to go up and do the security check on our aircraft.  What could go wrong?