2015 AMT Discussion

[OldGuy@AA]

 
I know it gives me the warm fuzzies when I see a contract cabin cleaner get off his prayer rug to go up and do the security check on our aircraft.  What could go wrong?

I know it's not politically correct but I get the willies just reading that.  There is something seriously wrong here.

 

[Kev3188]

 
I know it gives me the warm fuzzies when I see a contract cabin cleaner get off his prayer rug to go up and do the security check on our aircraft.  What could go wrong?

So you reflexively equate any Muslim with terrorism? Weird. You've never struck me as particularly fearful...

 

[dfw gen]

So you reflexively equate any Muslim with terrorism? Weird. You've never struck me as particularly fearful...

hate to say ti but you dont hear much about Christian,Judaism,Buddhist or Hindu terrorism.

 

[Kev3188]

They're out there. Sikhs too...

 

[Worldport]

I know it's not politically correct but I get the willies just reading that.  There is something seriously wrong here.

Yeah, political correctness

 

[Worldport]

hate to say ti but you dont hear much about Christian,Judaism,Buddhist or Hindu terrorism.

John Lennon said the world would be better without religion. I think they would find something else to fight about

 

[OldGuy@AA]

So you reflexively equate any Muslim with terrorism? Weird. You've never struck me as particularly fearful...

I have a pretty good friend that is Muslim and I don't even think about him being anything but a model citizen but I must admit that when I see anyone from the middle east that I don't know I wonder.  I'm not saying that is right I'm just saying that's how it is.  

 

[Real tired]

Ok so a LUS lead can start as an AMT say 30 years ago and become a lead 1 year later. That gives him 29 years Lead seniority. But after one year he goes back to AMT for 28 years. So how does that make him any different than a LAA AMT that starts 30 years ago and becomes a Lead 1 year ago. They both have been a Lead for only one year but the LUS Lead gets 29 years seniority Lead time? The IAM way would only give the LAA Lead 1 year seniority. See where I am coming from now?

That was excellent !!  You just hit me between the eyes with that example.
 
I guess in this case, the only fair way would be some sort of hybrid system that places you on the Leads list by using time served in that classification.  So both guys would be in the same position on the list with their SSN being the tie breaker.
 
I see pain and crying ahead.

 

[Real tired]

As I expected. I do not blame you for disagreeing.  Anyone on the LUS side will not agree with it as you guys are use to the way it has been for decades upon decades.  The major point here is it is done 2 completely different ways at LAA and LUS.  The integration of both union members from both sides by this asso that was forced upon you guys, it will have to go one way or the other. Or, maybe just maybe there could be possible movement and/or changes upon both sides, BUT, I highly doubt it.  The LAA numbers outweigh the LUS numbers by at least 25-35%, I think.  If this is so, do you think any of the AA'ers are willing to go with the IAM's way at LUS?  And think about this, this is only one of the many, many different ways these two unions were doing items within the two different contracts. Lead testing is another. Inspector testing might be another. And I am sure there some more that others have posted.  To be very honest with you I do see why it works the two different ways at both carriers and understand why.  The only thing I have been trying to point out is that it can only happen one way or the other it cannot be both, and, the question is, which way will this asso. try to go?  My opinion is they will first try to go the IAM way since they are the first group in charge.  I don't see a contract passing if it is brought out to the members for a vote if this is the case due to the sheer numbers at LAA out numbering the numbers at LUS.  There would have to be some sort of grandfathered clause, or some kind of hybrid sysstem that makes changes for both sides. What that might consist of I have no idea, and don't know if something like that would still be successful.  The final outcome could and very well may be that it is one way or the other.  With all that said it will be a rather huge deal for the side that it changes for.  And guess what?  For the folks that never read the full contract offer and only see the dollar signs and added vac and perks will simply overlook this major seniority issue until they see their own name listed below others on the seniority list, freak out, scream to the high heavens over it, and come to find out, if they would have read all contract changes word for word that they would have never voted for it in the first place.  Again Real tired, not trying to argue which way is best as both sides have had it the same way for decades, but I really do think it will change for one side or the other, which way it is addressed we await to see.  Good luck to you, and your fellow mechanics. You may want to start looking at other items within each contract to see just what other big changes might be coming down the pipe with this new asso will be bringing to the members that no one had a say so about.  Plain and simple the TWU and IAM forced this asso on you guys because they simply knew just exactly how the vote would have went if the members were to decide.

I'm not here to argue either.
 
It's just my opinion that the IAM way of seniority integration is more "military" like and benefits the worker with seniority accrual, whereas the TWU way, and not it seems the SWA way, more benefits the company.  With their junority bumping system, the company sponsored tests, and the lack of premium positions.
 
It just seems to me, and I never worked with any AA people yet, that working with a Lead that was chosen by the company, is like working with the company rat boy, and he gets his work done by threatening to "tattle".  I don't know.  Tell me different.
 
As LUS, the Lead is our equal, and most of them stand tall against the company and always have your back.  A couple of them are rat boys, but they usually don't last.  At LUS the Lead is also the go between for me and the company.  And because of that, I can long periods of time without ever having to speak one word to any management people. Unless it's discipline or sick time.  And that's the way it should be.
 
My friend from the union railroad once made fun of me because we only had unionized Leads.  He said his seniority system was similar there, but the Supervisors were also unionized and it also was a premium bidding position.  This method has worked a whole lot longer at the railroad than it has at the IAM.

 

[Kev3188]

I have a pretty good friend that is Muslim and I don't even think about him being anything but a model citizen but I must admit that when I see anyone from the middle east that I don't know I wonder.  I'm not saying that is right I'm just saying that's how it is.

I hear ya. At least you're honest about it.

The fear of the unknown is exactly what terrorists want. The worst possible outcome for them is life going on as planned.

 

[swamt]

I'm not here to argue either.
 
It's just my opinion that the IAM way of seniority integration is more "military" like and benefits the worker with seniority accrual, whereas the TWU way, and not it seems the SWA way, more benefits the company.  With their junority bumping system, the company sponsored tests, and the lack of premium positions.
 
It just seems to me, and I never worked with any AA people yet, that working with a Lead that was chosen by the company, is like working with the company rat boy, and he gets his work done by threatening to "tattle".  I don't know.  Tell me different.
 
As LUS, the Lead is our equal, and most of them stand tall against the company and always have your back.  A couple of them are rat boys, but they usually don't last.  At LUS the Lead is also the go between for me and the company.  And because of that, I can long periods of time without ever having to speak one word to any management people. Unless it's discipline or sick time.  And that's the way it should be.
 
My friend from the union railroad once made fun of me because we only had unionized Leads.  He said his seniority system was similar there, but the Supervisors were also unionized and it also was a premium bidding position.  This method has worked a whole lot longer at the railroad than it has at the IAM.

No prob. we are on the same page.  Not sure if I understood your statement about SWA leads and inspectors, but, our leads do not take a test (although the co. wants it that way) and our inspectors do have to take a test.  Inspectors test is bogus in my mind as it really has nothing to do with what an inspectors duties are. It is more of a test of knowledge of "how or where to look stuff up". The test is timed for 8 hours with 100 questions.  There are some very intelligent folks that have taken these test and did not finish in the 8 hours.  Very time consuming to research through all the manuals available to help take the test, write it all out and move onto the next question.  There are some members currently addressing this test issue and trying to make changes.  All premium positions should be bid and awarded by seniority period. No union position should ever have any company input on who is to retain a premium position.  The company should only have input and say so about sups positions and above...

 

[700UW]

Sisters and brothers,

The Mechanic & Related/Stores Negotiating Committee met with American Airlines the week of March 21st in DFW.

On Wednesday March 23, the company briefed your Committee, ten minutes prior to their announcement, about the decision to follow the rest of the industry in having a proft-sharing program for its employees.

Although this might be considered a step in the right direction, your Committee must review the proft-sharing plan as proposed to determine its effects on our future. The fact the Company has established a proft sharing plan does not change your Committee’s approach to negotiations, particularly our approach toward compensation, including industry-leading wages. In regard to proft-sharing, American stated that they were not asking for anything in return, and we plan to hold them to their words!

Your Negotiating Committee, during this session, worked on the following articles:

—Grievance Procedure – Your Committee has had several exchanges and intense table discussion on this Article to ensure the rights of our members are protected. We continue to have discussions over the fundamental differences about how discipline may be issued to our members by the Company.

—Probationary Period – We have reached tentative agreements on this article for M&R, MLS, MTS and MCT.

—Hours of Work – We received an initial proposal from the company on this article and your Committee is in the process of reviewing for our counter-proposal.

—One Station Agreements – We received an initial proposal from the company on this article and your Committee is in the process of reviewing before making our response. 3/25/16

—Rotation of Shifts – We received an initial proposal from the company on this article and your Committee is in the process of reviewing before making our response.

—Sick Leave/OJI- Your Committee presented the company with our initial proposal on this article and awaiting their response.

In addition to next week in DFW, the parties have agreed to the negotiations schedule for the next three months, listed below:

The week of April 11- DFW

The week of May 9- DCA

The week of June 13 DFW

The week of April 18- DFW

The week of May 16- DFW

The week of June 20 DCA

The week of April 25- DCA

The week of May 23- DFW

The week of June 27 DFW

We thank you for your patience and support as we make steady progress toward a joint contract. We are fully dedicated to negotiating the best agreement as quickly as possible.

 

[dfw gen]

f*ck that another 3 months? are they kidding? after GIVING the flight attendants another 6% because they should not have to wait for united to settle? we are being played for fools.

 

[bigjets]

It's almost like they're trying to destroy the mechanics morale. Let's give all the other employees raises or give them raises ahead of schedule and then let's do the slow roll and delay contract negotiations with the mechanics.

 

[1AA]

Sisters and brothers,
The Mechanic & Related/Stores Negotiating Committee met with American Airlines the week of March 21st in DFW.
On Wednesday March 23, the company briefed your Committee, ten minutes prior to their announcement, about the decision to follow the rest of the industry in having a proft-sharing program for its employees.
Although this might be considered a step in the right direction, your Committee must review the proft-sharing plan as proposed to determine its effects on our future. The fact the Company has established a proft sharing plan does not change your Committee’s approach to negotiations, particularly our approach toward compensation, including industry-leading wages. In regard to proft-sharing, American stated that they were not asking for anything in return, and we plan to hold them to their words!
Your Negotiating Committee, during this session, worked on the following articles:
—Grievance Procedure – Your Committee has had several exchanges and intense table discussion on this Article to ensure the rights of our members are protected. We continue to have discussions over the fundamental differences about how discipline may be issued to our members by the Company.
—Probationary Period – We have reached tentative agreements on this article for M&R, MLS, MTS and MCT.
—Hours of Work – We received an initial proposal from the company on this article and your Committee is in the process of reviewing for our counter-proposal.
—One Station Agreements – We received an initial proposal from the company on this article and your Committee is in the process of reviewing before making our response. 3/25/16
—Rotation of Shifts – We received an initial proposal from the company on this article and your Committee is in the process of reviewing before making our response.
—Sick Leave/OJI- Your Committee presented the company with our initial proposal on this article and awaiting their response.
In addition to next week in DFW, the parties have agreed to the negotiations schedule for the next three months, listed below:
The week of April 11- DFW
The week of May 9- DCA
The week of June 13 DFW
The week of April 18- DFW
The week of May 16- DFW
The week of June 20 DCA
The week of April 25- DCA
The week of May 23- DFW
The week of June 27 DFW
We thank you for your patience and support as we make steady progress toward a joint contract. We are fully dedicated to negotiating the best agreement as quickly as possible.

What would we have done if it wasn't for 700 to keep us informed? BTW, We get all the updates. We are members of the dysfunctional Association. Are you? For once I'm glad your not because it sucks.