Kev3188
Veteran
Meanwhile, I went to bed at halftime feeling pretty good about it all...
...Then got one heckuva rude awakening at 0230 the next morning...
...Then got one heckuva rude awakening at 0230 the next morning...
2015 AMT Discussion
- Thread starter Eagle
- Start date
MetalMover
Veteran
- Sep 16, 2013
- 3,543
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I don't recall ever posting on any fleet service discussion bashing fleet service the way some fleet service have been bashing us mechanics. There are some people in YOUR work group hoping that more aircraft maintenance gets outsourced so they may pick up some work. THAT is what I am responding to. Mechanics do not need to be reminded of what was lost in terms of our work. The TWU and AA has happily taken work from mechanics long before bankruptcy. Did I hear any fleet service say "HEY THIS ISN'T RIGHT" back in 1983 when it all started? Instead all we hear is "well you don't need a license to do this and you don't need a license to do that." As far as some who feel their "sheeeet" don't stink", that is common to EVERY work group....Pilots think they're it, F/A's think they're it, mechanics think they're it and fleet service think they're it, with respect to importance.WeAAsles said:
As far as playing the class warfare card, the one fact remains for a mechanic that applies to no other work group.....What I may have done several months ago, even longer, can come back to haunt me for something that happens today.....Once fleet service is done with that last flight, they are basically done once the plane lands.. Same goes for pilots and flight attendants.
An aircraft's maintenance history is forever along with every mechanic's name and number. Can you say the same for your work group?
The bottom line is....NO ONE is exempt from outsoucing.
chilokie1
Senior
- May 11, 2005
- 492
- 727
Thank you not only for the link to the Boeing story but also in thatWeAAsles said:
magazine was a story on new OSSHA regs on silica dust.
The reason I bring that up is many of our AMT's who preserve our
engines for long term storage or de-preserve them when they install
them on our aircraft have been exposed to silica dust. This may not be a
big enough story to warrant its own thread but for years we used to
pour silica out of plastic bottles into breathable bags (60 lbs per engine)
and place it in the intake and exhaust area's. We no longer use silica
but everyone who had in the past needs to know that once AGAIN we
were lied to about how safe the crap we work with is. Thanks again I
had been looking for a story about silica dust effects ever since i heard
about the OSSHA change.
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,453
- 5,257
Thank you for the acknowledgment and for reading the link chilokie. My Great Uncle Joe worked in the NY Subway tunnels and got Barrium poisoning when I was a kid. The doctors gave him 6 months to live but he lasted another 20 years but was on oxygen for the rest of his life. He even went into the bars with a small tank.chilokie1 said:
Introduction
Crystalline silica is an important industrial material found abundantly in the earth’s crust. It is a mineral that occurs in several forms. Quartz, the most common form, is a component of sand, stone, rock, concrete, brick, block, and mortar. Many of these materials are used every day across a wide variety of industrial settings, including construction, mining, manufacturing, maritime, and agriculture.
Occupational exposure to crystalline silica often occurs as part of common workplace operations involving cutting, sawing, drilling, and crushing of concrete, brick, block, rock, and stone products (such as in construction work). Operations using sand products (such as glass manufacturing, foundries, and sand blasting) can result in worker inhalation of small (respirable) crystalline silica particles from the air. These types of exposures can lead to the development of disabling and sometimes fatal lung diseases, including silicosis and lung cancer. Processes historically associated with high rates of silicosis include sandblasting, sand-casting foundry operations, mining, tunneling, cement cutting and demolition, masonry work, and granite cutting.
This page offers guidance that may be useful to workers and employees across a number of industries. Resources for general industry and construction are highlighted where appropriate.
https://www.osha.gov/dsg/topics/silicacrystalline/
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,453
- 5,257
chilokie
Do we handle long term engine storage in house or is that taken care of by an outside contractor?
The reason I ask is because a good friend of mine is starting up a company to handle that since he says there aren't many companies out there who do.
He currently works for an Aircraft Engine leasing company. (And yes is a certified licensed Aircraft Mechanic)
Do we handle long term engine storage in house or is that taken care of by an outside contractor?
The reason I ask is because a good friend of mine is starting up a company to handle that since he says there aren't many companies out there who do.
He currently works for an Aircraft Engine leasing company. (And yes is a certified licensed Aircraft Mechanic)
MetalMover
Veteran
- Sep 16, 2013
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I've been around a long time HINT: I started BEFORE deregulation changed the game..I am Waaaaay closer to retirement than most.WeAAsles said:
.......Maybe you don't think what happened 33 years ago has any bearing on today, but what STARTED happening in 1983, especially to mechanics, is WHY mechanics feel the way we do.. Maybe you can dismiss it, but many of us can't.
Many airline workers got decimated because of deregulation and bankruptcies....But one work group lost the most members......And that would be the mechanic group.
Very well put. I would like to say that there is not necessarily class warfare going on. There are individuals from the FSC and AMT workgroups who constantly try to stir the pot and create hostility. You throw in others who aren't even in the Airline industry but consider themselves experts. Outsourcing is affecting us all nowadays and we can all see examples without looking too far. Each workgroup has their own problems. As AMTs we are in a unique situation where, as MM stated, our responsibility continues long after the aircraft has left the gate or hangar. So responsibility is a big issue with us. Some may not understand that or they may disregard it. I do admit that I have fun when someone who has no dog in the fight tries to convince us that they are experts on what we live with every day. Although this never is constructive, it does serve as some entertainment value. But the point is that when there is a thread titled "AMT Discussion" one would think someone who is not an AMT with nothing to offer but insulting comments would get the idea that their insulting comments are not needed or wanted. I'm sure we can all agree the company does a good enough job of insulting us all on a daily basis and doesn't need any help. I must admit some of the back and forth does get pretty funny sometimes and I do get involved on occasion but I do like to have fun. But please don't lose sight of the fact that sooner or later we may need eachother. Some have made it perfectly clear that they will not stand with us. We do not want or need their comments to that effect and this has been made clear. If you are not an AMT and you don't have anything constructive to add then don't. That is all we ask.MetalMover said:
Basically Oregon couldn't do anything right and TCU couldn't do anything wrong. Gary Patterson did change from a black shirt to a purple one at halftime so maybe that was the reason. But it was fun to watch a comeback of that magnitude. As long as you weren't an Oregon fan though I would suspect. I happen to like both teams so I really didn't care who won. My kid did though as her two older sisters have degrees from OSU and since they got crucified in their bowl game she wanted to be able to rub it in.Kev3188 said:
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,453
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MetalMover said:
Ok then. In October of 1978 I was only 13 years old. The only thing I cared about when it came to airlines or airplanes is when I would be in the back seat of a car on the Long Island Expressway would I see the tail of an airplane over that wall at LGA.
At least I'm glad that you can talk about the decimation after deregulation was signed into law. Most of the other posters on here completely ignore it.
But back to 1983. I'm going to assume that the average age of the reps who were in Negotiations at that time were probably 50 YO? So now the average age of any of them left alive is about 83 YO. Back then everyone smoked and who knows what kind of toxic chemicals they were exposed to? So again I'm thinking are any of them left alive?
Did Fleet Presidents at that time say "FU we're taking those jobs away from you whether you like it or not?" Did you guys vote as one big group back then? Did mechanics vote on a Mechanic contract and Fleet vote on a Fleet contract? Or did you only have one contract sent out that everyone voted on?
If yes and it was one contract to be voted on by everyone, then yes you were scued. If not though then the majority in your group at that time voted away the jobs. Doesn't matter how or why.
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
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Metal let me ask you a Pension question.
You obviously are still going to have a pretty good Pension for all the years you have at AA. Should the Unions in 03 have told the company to pound sand?
In hindsight looking back and knowing what happened to other airlines Pensions when they were thrown on the PBGC, do you still think we should have collectively still said no?
You obviously are still going to have a pretty good Pension for all the years you have at AA. Should the Unions in 03 have told the company to pound sand?
In hindsight looking back and knowing what happened to other airlines Pensions when they were thrown on the PBGC, do you still think we should have collectively still said no?
MetalMover
Veteran
- Sep 16, 2013
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You've grasped the chain of events well. Keep in mind, back then there were no maintenance locals...We all voted as one. Because of shear numbers, mechanics held no local positions of power. That's the way the industry was for all airlines. The only locals that were able to have mechanic presidents and officers were the overhaul bases. So in 1983, the TWU agreed to turn deicing and pushbacks over to the ramp because that's what the company wanted among a slew of other changes. But the work was just moved over to another TWU represented work group.....so the TWU agreed and the fleet majority carried it through.WeAAsles said:
This is what I have been trying to convey to you and others as to why mechanics feel the way we do. This has nothing to do with class warfare but rather one work group losing work in favor of another.
Now, as for a majority of MY work group voting away the jobs, you are correct. But when I bring up the fact that the OH majority has outvoted us because they were unaffected by changes on the line, we get criticized for blaming others for our own choices. We were always up against a union which was run by non mechanics and then add to the mix, we were then up agains an overhaul voting bloc which had contracts tailored to their benefit, not the line.
Sadly I am nearing the end of my career and this will be my last contract. Outsourcing is inevitable. Work rule changes are inevitable as well. It is time to get compensated fairly for all the changes that will accompany the next contract.
MetalMover
Veteran
- Sep 16, 2013
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Absolutely. For me personally I would not have been as hard hit as younger employees. The older you are, the less of a hit one takes with respect to the PBGC.But you are correct, the unions were afraid of having the pensions turned over to the PBGC. The reality was we would have had our pensions terminated. So my reasons are different than say that of a younger employee.WeAAsles said:
I got here in 85 and when I asked how the A scalers could vote in a B scale and the union push it? I was told by Ed Wilson, the local president, that he didn't represent anyone who wasn't working for the company yet. I soon found the TWU and AA would put a cookie in each TA that catered to a certain demograph (It was always the A scalers until most were gone) in order to get a TA passed. Of course the TAs were loaded with concessions too but we have always been a "Me first" union. We do have a right to blame the TWU because they have allowed the company to divide and conquer. We must also take some of the blame for not doing the right thing and voting down bad deals. A good example of this is the 51% system passage of the crap we have now for a contract with Tulsa voting 74% yes. The leaders of our local spread fear to convince people to vote yes and this tactic has proven to work time and again. Some of us tried to convince the members that fear is used when there is no justification for a yes vote. We were not successful. But like MM says. What they do to AMTs today they can do to others tomorrow. Honestly the remedy is for AMTs to get their own union but the TWU is not going to let us go. They won't represent us but they don't want anyone else to either. To this day I wonder that if I'd have spent a couple more days holding the vote no sign could I have convinced 25 more to vote no? If I had been able to do that the TA would have failed.MetalMover said:
