2015 AMT Discussion

[OldGuy@AA]

Interesting story developing in Tulsa by the way.  A 737 B check line is going to be created and all AMTs who bid will have to pass a line test so they'll be considered line mechanics.  In the event there is a RIF are they considered one group with the Tulsa line guys?  Would you know the answer Buck?

 

[MetalMover]

I got here in 85 and when I asked how the A scalers could vote in a B scale and the union push it?  I was told by Ed Wilson, the local president, that he didn't represent anyone who wasn't working for the company yet.  I soon found the TWU and AA would put a cookie in each TA that catered to a certain demograph (It was always the A scalers until most were gone) in order to get a TA passed.  Of course the TAs were loaded with concessions too but we have always been a "Me first" union.  We do have a right to blame the TWU because they have allowed the company to divide and conquer.  We must also take some of the blame for not doing the right thing and voting down bad deals.  A good example of this is the 51%  system passage of the crap we have now for a contract with Tulsa voting 74% yes.  The leaders of our local spread fear to convince people to vote yes and this tactic has proven to work time and again.  Some of us tried to convince the members that fear is used when there is no justification for a yes vote.  We were not successful.  But like MM says.  What they do to AMTs today they can do to others tomorrow.  Honestly the remedy is for AMTs to get their own union but the TWU is not going to let us go.  They won't represent us but they don't want anyone else to either.  To this day I wonder that if I'd have spent a couple more days holding the vote no sign could I have convinced 25 more to vote no?  If I had been able to do that the TA would have failed.

If they let us go, their dues collection get drastically reduced as well as their compensation.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

If they let us go, their dues collection get drastically reduced as well as their compensation.

This is very true.  It also proves we are a valuable asset to them.  Too bad they don't think of us as anything but second class citizen cash cows. 

 

[Kev3188]

Thank you not only for the link to the Boeing story but also in that 
magazine was a story on new OSSHA regs on silica dust.
 The reason I bring that up is many of our AMT's who preserve our
engines for long term storage or de-preserve them when they install
them on our aircraft have been exposed to silica dust. This may not be a
big enough story to warrant its own thread but for years we used to
pour silica out of plastic bottles into breathable bags (60 lbs per engine)
and place it in the intake and exhaust area's. We no longer use silica
but everyone who had in the past needs to know that once AGAIN we
were lied to about how safe the crap we work with is. Thanks again I
had been looking for a story about silica dust effects ever since i heard
about the OSSHA change. 

Anything involving worker safety is worth discussing! 🙂

 

[Kev3188]

Basically Oregon couldn't do anything right and TCU couldn't do anything wrong.  Gary Patterson did change from a black shirt to a purple one at halftime so maybe that was the reason.  But it was fun to watch a comeback of that magnitude.  As long as you weren't an Oregon fan though I would suspect.  I happen to like both teams so I really didn't care who won.  My kid did though as her two older sisters have degrees from OSU and since they got crucified in their bowl game she wanted to be able to rub it in.  

Oregon native & die hard Ducks fan... It was a rough morning. Lol.

Sorry for the thread drift, guys...

 

[WeAAsles]

You've grasped the chain of events well. Keep in mind, back then there were no maintenance locals...We all voted as one. Because of shear numbers, mechanics held no local positions of power. That's the way the industry was for all airlines. The only locals that were able to have mechanic presidents and officers were the overhaul bases. So in 1983, the TWU agreed to turn deicing and pushbacks over to the ramp because that's what the company wanted among a slew of other changes. But the work was just moved over to another TWU represented work group.....so the TWU agreed and the fleet majority carried it through. 


Metal in my opinion that decision was 100% wrong then and unfairly put on your shoulders. I shouldn't be able to ever vote on anything that effects jobs in your group. What year again did you guys start voting separately?

I'm guessing that the FAA didn't mandate that the jobs that came to us had to be performed by licensed Mechanics? Was there a time they were and when did it change?

 
This is what I have been trying to convey to you and others as to why mechanics feel the way we do. This has nothing to do with class warfare but rather one work group losing work in favor of another.

But with some of you it seems like you blame us? How many FSC's do you think are left that were around back in 83? I NEVER voted to take any jobs away from you and as a matter of fact have written my Congressional leaders about what I feel is the danger of unsupervised outsourced maintenance. I DON"T want to fly on any plane unless I know it was fixed, worked on or Overhauled here in the US under direct FAA supervision. I even signed and shared that petition to have you guys separated as a Class and Craft for the DOL.

But then I get some putzes on here that accuse me of hating you guys??????


 
Now, as for a majority of MY work group voting away the jobs, you are correct. But when I bring up the fact that the OH majority has outvoted us because they were unaffected by changes on the line, we get criticized for blaming others for our own choices. We were always up against a union which was run by non mechanics and then add to the mix, we were then up agains an overhaul voting bloc which had contracts tailored to their benefit, not the line. 
Sadly I am nearing the end of my career and this will be my last contract. Outsourcing is inevitable. Work rule changes are inevitable as well. It is time to get compensated fairly for all the changes that will accompany the next contract.


And you have also seen my opinion on (Low Cost Of Living TUL) deciding the affairs and financials for you high COL line guys. Again do I really sound like your enemy?

I support now, in the past and in the future COLA or GEO pay, PERIOD!
 

 

[WeAAsles]

Absolutely. For me personally I would not have been as hard hit as younger employees. The older you are, the less of a hit one takes with respect to the PBGC.But you are correct, the unions were afraid of having the pensions turned over to the PBGC. The reality was we would have had our pensions terminated. So my reasons are different than say that of a younger employee. 

Maybe if I had the time I had now back then I would have thought differently? But with less than 6 years on May 1 2003, uh uh.

But you see this goes back to something you said earlier about the senior guys not thinking about the junior guys or those on the clock yet back in 83.

Sorry my friend. You're no different now than they were then. And maybe you shouldn't be?

 

[WeAAsles]

If they let us go, their dues collection get drastically reduced as well as their compensation.

You have to get the cards signed that prove that a majority of you want to leave. It's not about just letting YOU go. And why shouldn't any already established Union on the property be able to state their case as to why they want you to stay with them?

Metal did you even notice at all that since the new guys got in at the top of the TWU they put out ZERO literature trying to prevent any card drives? This is not a knock but I think they gave you guys the space to get it done if it's what you really wanted? 50% plus 1. 

 

[Overspeed]

OldGuy,
The AMTs have to take a line test? You'd think the AMTs who work the docks would at least be considered pre-qualified. I guess it's time to start getting pre-qual'd for line if you work the base. Strange that the line is working C checks on the Airbus and they didn't take an overhaul test. Grievance?

 

[MetalMover]

Maybe if I had the time I had now back then I would have thought differently? But with less than 6 years on May 1 2003, uh uh.

But you see this goes back to something you said earlier about the senior guys not thinking about the junior guys or those on the clock yet back in 83.

Sorry my friend. You're no different now than they were then. And maybe you shouldn't be?

 ........I have never voted for a contract that screwed younger workers...NEVER! To this day....
Fast forward to 1995 when the company offered the 5 and 5 package in exchange for  a paltry 6.5 raise......20 years ago....The senior guys cheered "I GOT MINE!" 
Sorry my friend....I AM NOTHING LIKE THOSE GUYS.....
 
What makes my attitude different is the PENSION.. I worked hard and long for it and I lost like everyone else...If I was younger, I still would have voted to keep my pension. 
If you think a 401k and company match is going to be sufficient for retirement having the changeover occur mid life and near end of career, you are wrong.

 

[MetalMover]

You have to get the cards signed that prove that a majority of you want to leave. It's not about just letting YOU go. And why shouldn't any already established Union on the property be able to state their case as to why they want you to stay with them?

Metal did you even notice at all that since the new guys got in at the top of the TWU they put out ZERO literature trying to prevent any card drives? This is not a knock but I think they gave you guys the space to get it done if it's what you really wanted? 50% plus 1. 

I will be the first to admit that there is no hope in changing unions. Maybe when the outsourcing percentage is considerably increased, more people might change their minds. Many of our OH members are finding themselves squeezed more and more. Look at TAESL....Wait until the rest of the MD80's are gone...Wait until we are left with a dozen each of 757 and 767s....This ain't over yet.

 

[dfw gen]

chilokie

Do we handle long term engine storage in house or is that taken care of by an outside contractor? 

The reason I ask is because a good friend of mine is starting up a company to handle that since he says there aren't many companies out there who do.

He currently works for an Aircraft Engine leasing company. (And yes is a certified licensed Aircraft Mechanic) 

Sure come on the maintenance thread and try to contract out maintenance. Thanx brother pack sand.

 

[WeAAsles]

Sure come on the maintenance thread and try to contract out maintenance. Thanx brother pack sand.

I'm asking about "Long Term" not "Short Term" engine storage?

Did you guys have anything to do with any of the old planes that AA parked out in the desert? NOOOOOOO......

 

[MetalMover]

 

Metal in my opinion that decision was 100% wrong then and unfairly put on your shoulders. I shouldn't be able to ever vote on anything that effects jobs in your group. What year again did you guys start voting separately?

I'm guessing that the FAA didn't mandate that the jobs that came to us had to be performed by licensed Mechanics? Was there a time they were and when did it change?
      I honestly can't remember exactly what year maintenance locals were formed. Not every job requires a license. FAA mandates licenses be held to maintain aircraft. But if you work under a repair station certificate, you might not need a license for some job functions.The point is the TWU more than willingly gave work away that was ours.  Aircraft Maintenance has always been considered a necessary evil. It costs a huge chunk of change to maintain aircraft at every level. 
 
But with some of you it seems like you blame us? How many FSC's do you think are left that were around back in 83? I NEVER voted to take any jobs away from you and as a matter of fact have written my Congressional leaders about what I feel is the danger of unsupervised outsourced maintenance. I DON"T want to fly on any plane unless I know it was fixed, worked on or Overhauled here in the US under direct FAA supervision. I even signed and shared that petition to have you guys separated as a Class and Craft for the DOL.

But then I get some putzes on here that accuse me of hating you guys??????
Maybe some blame individuals, but I blame the TWU leadership for letting these things happen.
 
 
And you have also seen my opinion on (Low Cost Of Living TUL) deciding the affairs and financials for you high COL line guys. Again do I really sound like your enemy?

I support now, in the past and in the future COLA or GEO pay, PERIOD!
   Yes, and we had certain line stations voting against GEO pay because they weren't getting the same increase as say NY or CA.    

 

 

[WeAAsles]

Metal in my opinion that decision was 100% wrong then and unfairly put on your shoulders. I shouldn't be able to ever vote on anything that effects jobs in your group. What year again did you guys start voting separately?
I'm guessing that the FAA didn't mandate that the jobs that came to us had to be performed by licensed Mechanics? Was there a time they were and when did it change?
      I honestly can't remember exactly what year maintenance locals were formed. Not every job requires a license. FAA mandates licenses be held to maintain aircraft. But if you work under a repair station certificate, you might not need a license for some job functions.The point is the TWU more than willingly gave work away that was ours.  Aircraft Maintenance has always been considered a necessary evil. It costs a huge chunk of change to maintain aircraft at every level. 
 
But with some of you it seems like you blame us? How many FSC's do you think are left that were around back in 83? I NEVER voted to take any jobs away from you and as a matter of fact have written my Congressional leaders about what I feel is the danger of unsupervised outsourced maintenance. I DON"T want to fly on any plane unless I know it was fixed, worked on or Overhauled here in the US under direct FAA supervision. I even signed and shared that petition to have you guys separated as a Class and Craft for the DOL.
But then I get some putzes on here that accuse me of hating you guys??????
Maybe some blame individuals, but I blame the TWU leadership for letting these things happen.
 
 
And you have also seen my opinion on (Low Cost Of Living TUL) deciding the affairs and financials for you high COL line guys. Again do I really sound like your enemy?
I support now, in the past and in the future COLA or GEO pay, PERIOD!
   Yes, and we had certain line stations voting against GEO pay because they weren't getting the same increase as say NY or CA.

You mean the Leaders and Negotiators for the TWU at those times right? TWU is nothing more than an acronym.

Are any of those people especially the ones from 1983 still living? People......

Have YOU ever tried to reach out and get the vibe of those who are in those positions today? Send an e-mail? Ask to talk to any of them on the phone? Just curious?