2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[NYer]

Nice Spin 700. No, I mean great Spin!! The point was their two unions didn't remain seperate and call it an alliance or Association. It is still the APA and the APFA...That there was a WT moment huh 700!

 
You can quarrel about a name, but the APFA, AFA, APA & USAPA have all worked together in trying to achieve a JCBA. It wasn't one or the other, it was a partnership.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'd rather not see a "battle of the union" nor the "Association". Knowing what I have gotten for the past 32 years from the TWU and hearing and reading about the IAM, I still prefer the TWU. As for the Association, in my personal opinion I think it will be a clusterfu** and if these early trials are any indication, I may be right. I guess what I want the most WeAAsles is the membership to have a say. I think it's wrong for it to be a vote for the Association or no representation at all. I think it should be TWU, IAM or Association.

Alright but that's how the NMB process works since they did file as an Association. Blame the Government and the Politicians on that one. Unions are under ATTACK all over the Country and I can understand the motivation in that regards to try something different. 

Is it about the dues also? Absolutely. Call me naive though if you want but I don't think that's the sole motivation though.

I work in MIA where there are a lot of ex TWA people. They are still angry and resentful to this day and they will remain that way till they take their last breath. I don't want to see any more of that.
 
As for the Association out to intentionally harm us, no I don't think so. But the infighting that will be constant in the Association will unintentionally hurt the members. It already is as I told NYer between all of his spins...This infighting before they can even settle their differences is costing us that 4% that Doug so generously gave us for a "job well done".

I think there will be FAR and away more infighting among us if we don't have some sort of Alliance or partnership where just maybe some people don't lose what they like and are used to? JMO.

I hope the fighting or arguing is over and we hear something by mid January?
 
Bottom line WeAAsles, give me a voice in what direction we go and not a take it or leave it vote!

I don't care. I think they will BOTH look out for my best interests so this non religious guy is going to have a little faith.

 

[NYer]

I'd rather not see a "battle of the union" nor the "Association". Knowing what I have gotten for the past 32 years from the TWU and hearing and reading about the IAM, I still prefer the TWU. As for the Association, in my personal opinion I think it will be a clusterfu** and if these early trials are any indication, I may be right. I guess what I want the most WeAAsles is the membership to have a say. I think it's wrong for it to be a vote for the Association or no representation at all. I think it should be TWU, IAM or Association.
 
As for the Association out to intentionally harm us, no I don't think so. But the infighting that will be constant in the Association will unintentionally hurt the members. It already is as I told NYer between all of his spins...This infighting before they can even settle their differences is costing us that 4% that Doug so generously gave us for a "job well done".
 
Bottom line WeAAsles, give me a voice in what direction we go and not a take it or leave it vote!

 
That's up to the NBM.
 
And it seems you wouldn't be happy with the Association, the IAM or the TWU, so it might be that your opinion is lost on others since the viable option you prefer is something that you admit you don't like either.
 
There is another option, however, and that may be your best bet. Instead of trying to derail what it already agreed to why don't you use your energy to try and and get another card drive going. That may give you an opportunity to get another option to be made available.
 
Negativity has been a long used tactic to bring change in an organization you don't seem to like, that gets old...quickly.

 

[AANOTOK]

 
You can quarrel about a name, but the APFA, AFA, APA & USAPA have all worked together in trying to achieve a JCBA. It wasn't one or the other, it was a partnership.

Absolutely nothing changed from the APA and APFA before or after the merger NYer. Same representing body, same body leadership (President). In your Association, numerous changes. Not even close to the same situation...your best spin yet Nyer!

 

[bob@las-AA]

Well why dont the Fleet Service on this thread do what the Mechanics tell everyone about the mechanic threads?
 
Dont post your not a Fleet Service Agent.

Since the forums merged the pages, I did attempt to start a topic on this very subject. A topic for FSC. But never the less, the number of clerks that are on this forum are next to null or just hard to identify. But since the mechanics split off to their own local, let them have a topic for them selves. Owens preaches and thumps that union book like a bible and yells "Stick together Union brothers and sisters! " 

 

[NYer]

Absolutely nothing changed from the APA and APFA before or after the merger NYer. Same representing body, same body leadership (President). In your Association, numerous changes. Not even close to the same situation...your best spin yet Nyer!

 
There certainly have been changes. Each group has been working together to move both workforces together. There has been cooperation and they have each worked towards their goal of a JCBA.
 
We sit here quarreling between all the available choice of which you don't like any of them. We are supposed to consider the opinions of someone that doesn't like the Association, doesn't like the TWU and doesn't like the IAM and agree with them of what a better alternative is.....of which he likes none. Hardly.

 

[700UW]

Absolutely nothing changed from the APA and APFA before or after the merger NYer. Same representing body, same body leadership (President). In your Association, numerous changes. Not even close to the same situation...your best spin yet Nyer!

Wrong both the APA and the APFA had union leaders from the AFA and USAPA placed in leadership roles at their new unions and all parties were involved, there were lots of changes.

 

[AANOTOK]

WeAAsles, yes, they filed the Association with the NMB. They wanted it them or no representation. That is my argument (which I have already lost) so my anger would be directed at them and not the NMB.
 
NYer, did you not read every word...my preference would be the TWU. But more than that, I want a choice.
Have no interest in a card drive nor do I have any interest in non union. The problem with you NYer is if you hear something you don't like or goes against your beliefs, it's negativity or you spin away.
If you could read every word in a comment, you would realize I would prefer an option to pick one of the three.
Have I been thrilled with the TWU for 32 years, nope, and your a liar if you say you have. But, they are what I have and as I stated earlier, I know what I have in them. The IAM and Association, not so much,  but I do have an opinion and if first impressions are anything, my opinion may hold water.
 
So read this real slowly NYer, I prefer to have a voice. I realize the Association was filed with the NMB. I realize I can't do much now other than be disappointed that the TWU/IAM filed the Association or no Union option. That slow enough for you NYer?

 

[AANOTOK]

Wrong both the APA and the APFA had union leaders from the AFA and USAPA placed in leadership roles at their new unions and all parties were involved, there were lots of changes.

Will the Pilots or Flight attendants report to separate unions for issues? Will the pilots or flight attendants pay different union dues to different unions based on location?

 

[AANOTOK]

 
There certainly have been changes. Each group has been working together to move both workforces together. There has been cooperation and they have each worked towards their goal of a JCBA.
 
We sit here quarreling between all the available choice of which you don't like any of them. We are supposed to consider the opinions of someone that doesn't like the Association, doesn't like the TWU and doesn't like the IAM and agree with them of what a better alternative is.....of which he likes none. Hardly.

Didn't read one change...and show me where I said I didn't want the TWU? You never stop do you Nyer.
I said I want to have a choice on the TWU, IAM or Association. My preference, the TWU. I can't make it any easy for you to understand.
 
But it doesn't follow what you WANT to hear so you twist it then call it negativity!

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles, yes, they filed the Association with the NMB. They wanted it them or no representation. That is my argument (which I have already lost) so my anger would be directed at them and not the NMB.
 
NYer, did you not read every word...my preference would be the TWU. But more than that, I want a choice.
Have no interest in a card drive nor do I have any interest in non union.

"The problem with you NYer is if you hear something you don't like or goes against your beliefs, it's negativity or you spin away."

 
If you could read every word in a comment, you would realize I would prefer an option to pick one of the three.
Have I been thrilled with the TWU for 32 years, nope, and your a liar if you say you have. But, they are what I have and as I stated earlier, I know what I have in them. The IAM and Association, not so much,  but I do have an opinion and if first impression are anything, my opinion may hold water.
 
So read this real slowly NYer, I prefer to have a voice. I realize the Association was filed with the NMB. I realize I can't do much now other than be disappointed that the TWU/IAM filed the Association or no Union option. That slow enough for you NYer?

I seem to run into far too many people like that these days. Actually I think the accusation of "spin" is better suited to Bob or WT on these forums then it is NYer, IMO.

 

[NYer]

Didn't read one change...and show me where I said I didn't want the TWU? You never stop do you Nyer.
I said I want to have a choice on the TWU, IAM or Association. My preference, the TWU. I can't make it any easy for you to understand.
 
But it doesn't follow what you WANT to hear so you twist it then call it negativity!

 
Oh...You do want the TWU, my mistake.

 

[NYer]

WeAAsles, yes, they filed the Association with the NMB. They wanted it them or no representation. That is my argument (which I have already lost) so my anger would be directed at them and not the NMB.
 
NYer, did you not read every word...my preference would be the TWU. But more than that, I want a choice.
Have no interest in a card drive nor do I have any interest in non union. The problem with you NYer is if you hear something you don't like or goes against your beliefs, it's negativity or you spin away.
If you could read every word in a comment, you would realize I would prefer an option to pick one of the three.
Have I been thrilled with the TWU for 32 years, nope, and your a liar if you say you have. But, they are what I have and as I stated earlier, I know what I have in them. The IAM and Association, not so much,  but I do have an opinion and if first impressions are anything, my opinion may hold water.
 
So read this real slowly NYer, I prefer to have a voice. I realize the Association was filed with the NMB. I realize I can't do much now other than be disappointed that the TWU/IAM filed the Association or no Union option. That slow enough for you NYer?

 
Copy.
 
I'd rather not take a chance at a vote. To me, aside from the theory of democracy, I see not advantage of a vote and many potential disadvantages. It really doesn't offer enough positives to take a chance and be stuck with many, many more negatives.
 
In reality, a vote may satisfy a person's desire to have a voice, but after that singular task has been achieved what we would have to work with on an daily basis may not be worth it.

 

[MetalMover]

Some mechanics. Now you sound like WT who says Delta people do not want to become Union.

And if you notice for the most part I do try to stay away from your AMFA topics but when you hijack a thread and consistently bash the Union I support sorry but I have a problem with that.

Here I'll give you a suggestion for a thread name, "Mechanics for AMFA, Exclusive" Otherwise if the thread is ambiguous I WILL comment.

The statements was general......As in MECHANICS are the group that would want AMFA as opposed to FLEET SERVICE, PILOTS or FLIGHT ATTENDANTS wanting AMFA...
 
As far as the union YOU support..Why would't you? Fleet service has done right by the TWU. The TWU has lost more mechanics work not only to outsourcing but to FLEET SERVICE. Of course you support them.

 

[WeAAsles]

The statements was general......As in MECHANICS are the group that would want AMFA as opposed to FLEET SERVICE, PILOTS or FLIGHT ATTENDANTS wanting AMFA...
 
As far as the union YOU support..Why would't you? Fleet service has done right by the TWU. The TWU has lost more mechanics work not only to outsourcing but to FLEET SERVICE. Of course you support them.

I'm not getting into the jobs vs pay debate with you for the 1 millionth time that's been beaten to severe death where you can't even see the roadkill from the asphalt anymore.

I support my Union because according to BLS reports and Payscale com I should be making $12.00 per hour and I'm not.

I also support them because I could be like Kip Hedges over at Delta who was fired for being honest and I'm not.

Has NOTHING to do with your comment even if you want to continue to jab Fleet in the eye with your stick.