2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Rogallo]

What's the holdup?  Gimme a ballot of some type!

 

[psa8979]

Union Leadership , NMB, and RLA. We need R. Trumka to step up and do a Pope Francis on those who have lost touch with the Flock/Membership. DP/AAL is laughing at the IAM/TWU/ASSOCIATION  all the way to the bank. 

 

[mike33]

 
You could never expect to receive a raise outside of the collective bargaining process and in many aspects the 4% raise is an unprecedented move, but it does illustrate how things can change from day to the next. This will undoubtedly increase the pressure on getting a JCBA, but it could also seem to put a little fire on the issue of getting a JCBA for which we have not even started to bet prepared for.
 

 
 DP is playing a game hear by giving a 4% raise to represented work groups that have already signed transition agreements and has promised the unsigned the same when we sign.........nowhere was retro implied !!! we all know that we are at least 8 months away from a TA so my feeling is DP is trying to put pressure on the NC. Well, i'm hoping that the NC sees the 4% on top of what we could get w/o it. In other words, i'm very skeptical of a sale price of 4% off when I'm shopping and is  negated by the inflated price of 4% more......we will see

 

[NYer]

 
 DP is playing a game hear by giving a 4% raise to represented work groups that have already signed transition agreements and has promised the unsigned the same when we sign.........nowhere was retro implied !!! we all know that we are at least 8 months away from a TA so my feeling is DP is trying to put pressure on the NC. Well, i'm hoping that the NC sees the 4% on top of what we could get w/o it. In other words, i'm very skeptical of a sale price of 4% off when I'm shopping and is  negated by the inflated price of 4% more......we will see

 
There is no reason to include the unions in a 4% pat raise outside of negotiations, so I don't see any sinister motive. It will undoubtedly increase the pressure on the Association to get a deal done, but that's not necessarily a bad thing since the raise didn't really come with a time limit. 
 
On the other hand, they also gave the flight attendants the 4% after the arbitration and after they already received the money they turned down. The pilots would receive the 4% on top of their last proposal so they're good to go.
 
If we get retro, then great. If we don't, at least we can count on being at the top or near the top of the industry pay rates by the end of the year. If the airline gets a deal before the or soon after the SOC, then we may get the retro, if the negotiations drag and drag, then you can probably forget the retro. Either way we get value of the contractual raises in September 2015, plus the wage adjuster and another 4% on top of that.

 

[Tim Nelson]

 
 DP is playing a game hear by giving a 4% raise to represented work groups that have already signed transition agreements and has promised the unsigned the same when we sign.........nowhere was retro implied !!! we all know that we are at least 8 months away from a TA so my feeling is DP is trying to put pressure on the NC. Well, i'm hoping that the NC sees the 4% on top of what we could get w/o it. In other words, i'm very skeptical of a sale price of 4% off when I'm shopping and is  negated by the inflated price of 4% more......we will see

 
IMO, since our members already have scope for all of our US AIRWAYS stations, and well over $24 [not great] next year with a locked in pay parity raise, and two additional raises the following two years,  Parker will have to offer an additional and substantial pay raise of well over 4% for US AIRWAYS members to consider appeasing Parker with a joint contract.  IMO, by the end of the contract, definitely somewhere north of $28.  
 
If he gives the Pilots 23% [isn't that their current offer?  and another 4%, that's 27%, yes?]  and brings them to 7% over what other unionized pilots make, then putting us 7% over other unionized rampers [Southwest and United] would bring us close to $30, yes?
 
UA ramp will be at $27.40 in January 2018 plus profit sharing.
If the Southwest ramp follows the IAM lead with the new IAM agreement at Southwest,  the Southwest rampers will be over $28 plus a really good profit sharing.
 
Parker has his work to do.  $24 is severely under paid and so is the end of our contract at $25.20 in 2017.  Terrible vacation schedule, no shift differ, no profit sharing, no holiday premium, terrible sick pay/accrural, terrible company contribution into  retirement.  WTH?  Give us some!  Either juice up the IAMPF back to normal amounts or give additional money into a 401k, but do something!  5 weeks of vacation after 30 years is a joke.  Half sick pay still, C'mon Doug our members aren't in bankruptcy anymore!!!!
 

 

[dfw gen]

 
There is no reason to include the unions in a 4% pat raise outside of negotiations, so I don't see any sinister motive. It will undoubtedly increase the pressure on the Association to get a deal done, but that's not necessarily a bad thing since the raise didn't really come with a time limit. 
 
On the other hand, they also gave the flight attendants the 4% after the arbitration and after they already received the money they turned down. The pilots would receive the 4% on top of their last proposal so they're good to go.
 
If we get retro, then great. If we don't, at least we can count on being at the top or near the top of the industry pay rates by the end of the year. If the airline gets a deal before the or soon after the SOC, then we may get the retro, if the negotiations drag and drag, then you can probably forget the retro. Either way we get value of the contractual raises in September 2015, plus the wage adjuster and another 4% on top of that.

you can count on the TWU!!! they will fight like hell for you.

 

[NYer]

 
If he gives the Pilots 23% [isn't that their current offer?  and another 4%, that's 27%, yes?]
 

 
Seems the 23% includes the 4%, if they accept by January 3rd

 

[NYer]

 
IMO, since our members already have scope for all of our US AIRWAYS stations, and well over $24 [not great] next year with a locked in pay parity raise, and two additional raises the following two years,  Parker will have to offer an additional and substantial pay raise of well over 4% for US AIRWAYS members to consider appeasing Parker with a joint contract.  IMO, by the end of the contract, definitely somewhere north of $28.  
 
If he gives the Pilots 23% [isn't that their current offer?  and another 4%, that's 27%, yes?]  and brings them to 7% over what other unionized pilots make, then putting us 7% over other unionized rampers [Southwest and United] would bring us close to $30, yes?
 
UA ramp will be at $27.40 in January 2018 plus profit sharing.
If the Southwest ramp follows the IAM lead with the new IAM agreement at Southwest,  the Southwest rampers will be over $28 plus a really good profit sharing.
 
Parker has his work to do.  $24 is severely under paid and so is the end of our contract at $25.20 in 2017.  Terrible vacation schedule, no shift differ, no profit sharing, no holiday premium, terrible sick pay/accrural, terrible company contribution into  retirement.  WTH?  Give us some!  Either juice up the IAMPF back to normal amounts or give additional money into a 401k, but do something!  5 weeks of vacation after 30 years is a joke.  Half sick pay still, C'mon Doug our members aren't in bankruptcy anymore!!!!
 

 
Take a deep breath, we're not in negotiations yet. Let's see what comes out of the JCBA talks.
 
BTW, I would bet the biggest issue with the IAM Members will be the medical benefits...not those other issues.

 

[WeAAsles]

 

 
 

 
IMO, since our members already have scope for all of our US AIRWAYS stations, and well over $24 [not great] next year with a locked in pay parity raise, and two additional raises the following two years,  Parker will have to offer an additional and substantial pay raise of well over 4% for US AIRWAYS members to consider appeasing Parker with a joint contract.  IMO, by the end of the contract, definitely somewhere north of $28.  
 
If he gives the Pilots 23% [isn't that their current offer?  and another 4%, that's 27%, yes?]  and brings them to 7% over what other unionized pilots make, then putting us 7% over other unionized rampers [Southwest and United] would bring us close to $30, yes?
 
UA ramp will be at $27.40 in January 2018 plus profit sharing.
If the Southwest ramp follows the IAM lead with the new IAM agreement at Southwest,  the Southwest rampers will be over $28 plus a really good profit sharing.
 
Parker has his work to do.  $24 is severely under paid and so is the end of our contract at $25.20 in 2017.  Terrible vacation schedule, no shift differ, no profit sharing, no holiday premium, terrible sick pay/accrural, terrible company contribution into  retirement.  WTH?  Give us some!  Either juice up the IAMPF back to normal amounts or give additional money into a 401k, but do something!  5 weeks of vacation after 30 years is a joke.  Half sick pay still, C'mon Doug our members aren't in bankruptcy anymore!!!!
 

Tim I did a little math last night and if it's Parker's intention that Delta is the baseline he wants to battle against, putting 7% above the rate that Delta ramp top out will be next month takes us to $26.55 in base pay.

So that "could" be the barometer we're looking at not factoring in if Longevity and Shift differential are not also in the new deal?

 

[Tim Nelson]

 
Take a deep breath, we're not in negotiations yet. Let's see what comes out of the JCBA talks.
 
BTW, I would bet the biggest issue with the IAM Members will be the medical benefits...not those other issues.

 
Certainly there are other issues. But, the article and context of what Parker mentioned was wages only.  I'm sure the Pilots don't like some of the things parker wanted out of their current contract.   But since they agreed to binding arbitration, aren't they hosed since Parker never yielded on work rule issues?  That's the thing that concerns me about binding arbitration.  In negotiations, Parker can dance with big wage numbers but then propose terrible language that guts whatever work rules are in a contract.  Thereby forcing memberships to reject and dumping it into a arbitrator's hands.  Such a thing could usher in ready reserve, lose scope, and wipe out structured work rules that survived bankruptcy. 
 

 

[NYer]

 
Certainly there are other issues. But, the article and context of what Parker mentioned was wages only.  I'm sure the Pilots don't like some of the things parker wanted out of their current contract.   But since they agreed to binding arbitration, aren't they hosed since Parker never yielded on work rule issues?  That's the thing that concerns me about binding arbitration.  In negotiations, Parker can dance with big wage numbers but then propose terrible language that guts whatever work rules are in a contract.  Thereby forcing memberships to reject and dumping it into a arbitrator's hands.  Such a thing could usher in ready reserve, lose scope, and wipe out structured work rules that survived bankruptcy. 
 

 
Of course he's yielded. They took away their attempt to add seats to regional aircraft, a huge issue with APA pilots.
 
That has not been the process he's used with the other unions, as a matter of fact, he's yielded to certain language with both pilots and flight attendants.
 
I don't believe he would eliminate Ready Reserve language only to try and reintroduce it later, not a good strategic move.
 
It seems we're mired in past negotiations which could blind us to current opportunities. In this case, it prudent to keep past issues in mind, but not when the evidence of those tactics are not presenting themselves.
 
In the case of the APA and APFA, the arbitration back stop was used to move negotiations along, not necessarily inject advantageous language. Both the APA and APFA received numerous extension and although the airline held the line on certain items (as is usual in negotiations of any type) they also backed away on others.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I can't find any casework where an association [within the airline or railway] was agreed to without a membership vote that didn't involve a multi employer thing or railway retirement thing. I presume some casework exist [after all, the IAM/TWU said 'this happens all the time in the railway], or that the IAM/TWU is trying to establish a precedent where the NMB recognizes the IAM and TWU checkoffs as a showing of interest without membership consent.  Such a thing may be interesting to object to if they are just assuming everyone is on board without proper consent.
 
I've searched the NMB records and couldn't find a trace of a decision allowing this without membership consent unless it was multi employer bargaining or retirement issues. Puzzling indeed.

 

[psa8979]

TN. Agree with your speculation and  i believe its all part of the closed door sessions between the BC, DOJ, NMB,LCC. AAL, and UNIONS for the Merger. Creating the largest and most profitable US based airline AAL. My 2015 New Year's bet is that the ASSOCIATION will be approved by NMB without a vote . Merry Christmas . PEACE !

 

[mike33]

  " As 2014 comes to a close, and we complete our first year as new American, I want to thank you for everything you are doing to run a great airline and integrate our two airlines. Our Company’s performance has surpassed everyone's expectations, and the credit for this success belongs to each of you. In celebration of that success, today we are announcing a pay increase of 4 percentage points for represented workgroups with ratified joint contracts and for non-contract employees below the director level."
 
 
 
​  WTF does negotiations have to do with the success that we as employees achieved last year ????  What a croc of dodo !! 

 

[mike33]

 
There is no reason to include the unions in a 4% pat raise outside of negotiations, so I don't see any sinister motive. 

 
 There is every reason to include every employee. In his own words it is because of all of us. Ratified Joint Contracts or not. 
 
The " Thank You " doesn't mean Diddley Squat. if it only compensates ratified contracts. He says we earned it. Not some of us earned it and some didn't yet !!!!!..... I heard the word Success..........Not Future Success....  !!!