2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[charlie Brown]

Right. So we agree the Scope language in Article 3 did not change, but was augmented by the MOU which is viable only until there is a JCBA. Is that correct?

What's your point on the scope? The contract as a whole is only good until the jcba. But that's the good thing about our scope. Many contracts have a date that the scope numbers expire or double in number ex: AA.s scope. Which in these cases the company would just wait it out until the scope leverage would be on their side. But our MOU gives us the same scope until a jcba. So if we don't like the scope the company is proposing, we can just continue talking with no pressure of it changing. But the JCBA will replace both current contracts on every issue.

 

[WeAAsles]

What's your point on the scope? The contract as a whole is only good until the jcba. But that's the good thing about our scope. Many contracts have a date that the scope numbers expire or double in number ex: AA.s scope. Which in these cases the company would just wait it out until the scope leverage would be on their side. But our MOU gives us the same scope until a jcba. So if we don't like the scope the company is proposing, we can just continue talking with no pressure of it changing. But the JCBA will replace both current contracts on every issue.

I was thinking the same thing. It's kind of strange that it's still an MOU if it doesn't have a concrete expiration date and what it would mean if that date passed.

Symantics on how it's written accept as somewhat of a precursor that the company would like to modify it if of course if we agree to those changes.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Right. So we agree the Scope language in Article 3 did not change, but was augmented by the MOU which is viable only until there is a JCBA. Is that correct?

the whole contract is only good till a new one is signed. Whats your pt nyer?

Imo, the iam is ready to negotiate but is under no pressure to land a new deal. Our part timers may want a new contract a bit quicker but for whatever reason they havent been active with their issues as much as full time.

Things will b very interesting because the twu, imo, would prolly want a quick contract and arbitration. Whatever path the union decides, we all stand to gain.

 

[charlie Brown]

I was thinking the same thing. It's kind of strange that it's still an MOU if it doesn't have a concrete expiration date and what it would mean if that date passed.
Symantics on how it's written accept as somewhat of a precursor that the company would like to modify it if of course if we agree to those changes.

I am 100% sure the company will want to modify it. But IMO that's what will give us a great chance of getting our current numbers of 56 and 98 down to decent numbers, and then hopefully bring in stations that exceed those numbers. Or at very least make the current stations much more secure than they were under the previous scope language.

 

[WeAAsles]

the whole contract is only good till a new one is signed. Whats your pt nyer?
Imo, the iam is ready to negotiate but is under no pressure to land a new deal. Our part timers may want a new contract a bit quicker but for whatever reason they havent been active with their issues as much as full time.
Things will b very interesting because the twu, imo, would prolly want a quick contract and arbitration. Whatever path the union decides, we all stand to gain.

Tim what makes you think that our guys would want to go with that Arbitration shtick? If you're a guy in a hub with over 25 years it may tickle your fancy because any damage that can come from it will be far below your spot on the ladder. Our Union doesn't just represent those guys though and hopefully are concerned about the entire membership on both sides.

 

[WeAAsles]

I am 100% sure the company will want to modify it. But IMO that's what will give us a great chance of getting our current numbers of 56 and 98 down to decent numbers, and then hopefully bring in stations that exceed those numbers. Or at very least make the current stations much more secure than they were under the previous scope language.

I like it. Nothing better then more and secure Union jobs.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim what makes you think that our guys would want to go with that Arbitration shtick? If you're a guy in a hub with over 25 years it may tickle your fancy because any damage that can come from it will be far below your spot on the ladder. Our Union doesn't just represent those guys though and hopefully are concerned about the entire membership on both sides.

there is reason to think that since parts of your scope expire like a carton of eggs. Im fine with NO arbitration but i can apprehend it if thats the direction we go.

 

[NYer]

What's your point on the scope? The contract as a whole is only good until the jcba. But that's the good thing about our scope. Many contracts have a date that the scope numbers expire or double in number ex: AA.s scope. Which in these cases the company would just wait it out until the scope leverage would be on their side. But our MOU gives us the same scope until a jcba. So if we don't like the scope the company is proposing, we can just continue talking with no pressure of it changing. But the JCBA will replace both current contracts on every issue.

 
The point is that the starting point for JCBA is going to be Article 3 of the IAM CBA, not the LOA. (and the current TWU CBA)
 
What AA agreement has a date of expiration where their scope numbers expire or double?

 

[NYer]

the whole contract is only good till a new one is signed. Whats your pt nyer?

Imo, the iam is ready to negotiate but is under no pressure to land a new deal. Our part timers may want a new contract a bit quicker but for whatever reason they havent been active with their issues as much as full time.

Things will b very interesting because the twu, imo, would prolly want a quick contract and arbitration. Whatever path the union decides, we all stand to gain.

 
That's not really accurate, is it Tim. Airline CBA's remain in force until something is changed since they don't expire and are just amended. The manner in which that MOU is written, we can interpret that it goes away simply with the ratification of the JCBA, that's not the case with the Article 3 of the IAM CBA. Is it?
 
In other words. If the parties don't come to an agreement on that language, the 7 flight criteria goes away simply with the ratification of a CBA. That's not the case with the rest of the CBA since any changes need to be agreed to by both parties.
 
...And you'll be surprised how willing the TWU side will be to drag this on and on and on.

 

[NYer]

there is reason to think that since parts of your scope expire like a carton of eggs. Im fine with NO arbitration but i can apprehend it if thats the direction we go.

 
What scope expires?

 

[BLUTO]

Off topic, but did someone accidentally (or purposely) hit my "ignore" button for Josh and 700...Haven't seen a post from those two in a while.

DOOSH IZ ON
TOUR WIT TH
MEAT PUPPETS>
700 GOT HM
ONE WAY TICKIT!
 
FRANK

 

[WeAAsles]

DOOSH IZ ON
TOUR WIT TH
MEAT PUPPETS>
700 GOT HM
ONE WAY TICKIT!
 
FRANK

Thank you Frank. It always makes my day to read your supremely wise and sage posts. Your genius shines on here.

Billy.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles,

First off, Led Zeppelin is the best band ever but Van Halen and Rush are awesome too. Lol. Seriously though, we have our work cut out for us and I am like CB, no hurry is needed and we must have a chance to meet with our AA negotiators and try and get on the same page. We are all in this to put two diverse workgroups under one CBA and many challenges lie ahead. I am excited to get this process rolling but patient enough to get it right.

P. Rez

Thanks Pat. I think you guys will do great for all of us.

Hey an argument also has to be made for the Beatles and the Stones too though. First album I ever got was The Beatles Red album 1962-1966 given to me by my great uncle Joe when I was 5 years old. Still got it.

Hey thought you might enjoy seeing this little bit of news.

http://classicrock.teamrock.com/news/2014-12-16/jimmy-page-a-new-chapter

 

 

[Tim Nelson]

NYer, I would be impressed if the TWU focuses on long term as opposed to something quick. Certainly I havent' kept up with the TWU, and have learned that you seem to have a pretty good handle on how things may/will work with the TWU.

 

[Tim Nelson]

what scope expires for TWU,  the day before ammendability.  Doesn't the flight activity go up?