2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

Lol. I here ya. P Rez, s brain is fried from living too long out there in the desert. No wonder he likes Zeppelin. Lol. Just kidding. But I'm more of a Van Halen guy myself. But I do like some Rush!

Oh you know very well how I feel about the Mighty Van Halen. Wolf is a good player but I really wish they'd bring Mikey back even if it was just for those great backing vocals.

DLR cracks me up. Can't sing for crap anymore but who cares. That last album rocked.

 

[NYer]

Not sure we are on the same page. I was talking about taking contract talks to binding arbitration like both the flight attendants and pilots group have both agreed to do. Sorry of I wasn't clear.

Me too, arbitration was agreed to at the insistance of the creditors committee. It was part of the merger discussions and an attempt to have cost certainty for the creditors, as they receive ina Plan of Reorganization.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm 50/50 on that Arbitration idea for our group. Having to compete against the UAL station language and unlimited PTer's plus that wonderful little "Ready Reserve" program they have over there at delta scares the willies out of me.

Put in a few "No Go" items on that fast track language and maybe I can fly with it?

 

[charlie Brown]

Oh you know very well how I feel about the Mighty Van Halen. Wolf is a good player but I really wish they'd bring Mikey back even if it was just for those great backing vocals.
DLR cracks me up. Can't sing for crap anymore but who cares. That last album rocked.

Talked to Mikey getting on one of our flights a few years back. Talked with him a good while on the jetway. Awesome, crazy guy. A lot shorter than I thought though.

 

[charlie Brown]

I'm 50/50 on that Arbitration idea for our group. Having to compete against the UAL station language and unlimited PTer's plus that wonderful little "Ready Reserve" program they have over there at delta scares the willies out of me.
Put in a few "No Go" items on that fast track language and maybe I can fly with it?

We eliminated all ready reserve language in our recent contract. So I don't look to go back to any of that crap.

 

[WeAAsles]

We eliminated all ready reserve language in our recent contract. So I don't look to go back to any of that crap.

Yea Kip pointed that out and Delta goes haywire and fires the guy. Glad Delta is feeling the heat now. What a bonehead move on their part. Can't wait to see them shove those cards down Anderson's throat.

 

[WeAAsles]

Talked to Mikey getting on one of our flights a few years back. Talked with him a good while on the jetway. Awesome, crazy guy. A lot shorter than I thought though.

I talked to Judas Priest for about an hour years ago back in DFW. KK was cool as hell. The whole band was great. KK, Glenn and Ian are all short. Rob is my height and Scott is a freakin Redwood.

 

[NYer]

I'm 50/50 on that Arbitration idea for our group. Having to compete against the UAL station language and unlimited PTer's plus that wonderful little "Ready Reserve" program they have over there at delta scares the willies out of me.

Put in a few "No Go" items on that fast track language and maybe I can fly with it?

 
The arbitration was not a blind endeavor. There were things that both parties agreed to before they moved forward. The floor of the agreement was the "market aggregate" and they were able to move above that. Too many are thinking of this process as a regular Section 6 arbitration, which it is not. The arbitrator himself acknowledged that his abilities were severely restricted.
 
As we can see with the APA and APFA, it doesn't seem this process is being used as knife to anyone's throat. I fear that we won't have a similar set-up and the JCBA talks will drag, and drag while our opportunities dissipates. It will be a carbon copy of the 2007-2008 negotiations where we went for "restore and more" and ended up with a BK. 

 

[700UW]

Oh you know very well how I feel about the Mighty Van Halen. Wolf is a good player but I really wish they'd bring Mikey back even if it was just for those great backing vocals.

DLR cracks me up. Can't sing for crap anymore but who cares. That last album rocked.

Mikey left on his own accord.

 

[Tim Nelson]

that's what I'm talking about WeAAsles, put in some safety nets, if arbitration is agreed to.  Also, redefine market aggregate to include any new Southwest agreement.  The agreement that the IAM just signed at Southwest is the best in the industry.   We have to redefine some things, otherwise, binding arbitration could put us in the hands of management like the stews. Management may not play Santa Claus in our case.  Having the company define market aggregate to include only Delta and United puts us at risk. The company is hell bent on no profit sharing in these arbitration awards, we ought to be hell bent agaist the non union items like ready reserve, and unlimited part time.  The part time cap at United [which was eliminated] had a $22 million value. Working in ORD, getting rid of that cap cost about 200 full time jobs here in one short year.  Never mind that the company's main arbitration argument could be to compare scope of Delta and United.  Not good.  May work out better for the Pilots and Stews, since they don't have contracting out issues that an arbitrator could dapper with.

 

[WeAAsles]

Mikey left on his own accord.

No not so. He was forced to give up his rights to the Van Halen name to be a part of their last tour with Sammy and then when he played with Sammy late on it pissed off Eddie because he expects only blind loyalty. Something a little strange about a person who has to demand that from someone IMO. Slightly insecure if you ask me. Mikey just wanted to jam and he didn't know if Van Halen were ever going to jam again?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
The arbitration was not a blind endeavor. There were things that both parties agreed to before they moved forward. The floor of the agreement was the "market aggregate" and they were able to move above that. Too many are thinking of this process as a regular Section 6 arbitration, which it is not. The arbitrator himself acknowledged that his abilities were severely restricted.

Exactly right. This is NOT section 6 and anyone who goes into that negotiating room thinking that is not thinking with their head. The Company "wants" to have deals done with all their work-groups to show confidence to Wall Street for investing in AA for the future, but they do not HAVE to have it.

UAL is surviving to this day without some JCBA in some of their groups. AA wants to do more than survive and we can capitalize on that if we are SMART.
 
 
As we can see with the APA and APFA, it doesn't seem this process is being used as knife to anyone's throat. I fear that we won't have a similar set-up and the JCBA talks will drag, and drag while our opportunities dissipates. It will be a carbon copy of the 2007-2008 negotiations where we went for "restore and more" and ended up with a BK.

Fear is ok but don't let it override your thoughts. From the guy who's not Religious, have a little faith. 

 

[WeAAsles]

that's what I'm talking about WeAAsles, put in some safety nets, if arbitration is agreed to.  Also, redefine market aggregate to include any new Southwest agreement.  The agreement that the IAM just signed at Southwest is the best in the industry.   We have to redefine some things, otherwise, binding arbitration could put us in the hands of management like the stews. Management may not play Santa Claus in our case.  Having the company define market aggregate to include only Delta and United puts us at risk. The company is hell bent on no profit sharing in these arbitration awards, we ought to be hell bent agaist the non union items like ready reserve, and unlimited part time.  The part time cap at United [which was eliminated] had a $22 million value. Working in ORD, getting rid of that cap cost about 200 full time jobs here in one short year.  Never mind that the company's main arbitration argument could be to compare scope of Delta and United.  Not good.  May work out better for the Pilots and Stews, since they don't have contracting out issues that an arbitrator could dapper with.

Tim the company wants something from us and they're willing to pay a "small" premium to get it. If we do wind up trying to place a demand they may just dig in their heels and say screw it. We both have CBA's till 2018 and the contract your side signed gives them half of the synergies already.

Don't blow your load too quick or the chick may stop calling you.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim the company wants something from us and they're willing to pay a "small" premium to get it. If we do wind up trying to place a demand they may just dig in their heels and say screw it. We both have CBA's till 2018 and the contract your side signed gives them half of the synergies already.
Don't blow your load too quick or the chick may stop calling you.

on the usairways side, i think most would b willing to wait for a fair contract as opposed to blowing a load with a quickie that cramps our scope. Im not convinced we should lose any scope. The usairways scope should b applied to the joint contract by applying it to the 17 stations, many of which are already part of the 33 at usairways. Then tweaking the insourcing language. Any deal that gets rid of any station that already has scope is a bad deal.

 

[WeAAsles]

on the usairways side, i think most would b willing to wait for a fair contract as opposed to blowing a load with a quickie that cramps our scope. Im not convinced we should lose any scope. The usairways scope should b applied to the joint contract by applying it to the 17 stations, many of which are already part of the 33 at usairways. Then tweaking the insourcing language. Any deal that gets rid of any station that already has scope is a bad deal.

Tim your comment is admirable but let's suppose something. We lost Cabin Service in the BK. Here in MIA that was 350 jobs. What if the company was willing to give back those jobs but wanted a SCOPE for station staffing in the middle of what you currently have and what we have? Say that affected 150 members for a net gain of 200 jobs in another location? Now put something like that into a system wide scale. What if it was jobs that you guys lost in your BK?

I know that people in small stations wouldn't be very happy to be forced to move to keep a job but with the loss of Cabin we had members who felt forced to retire because they didn't believe they could do the heavy lifting jobs any longer. I never really liked working in Cabin Service but it was nice to know that job existed if I ever felt lifting bags was just becoming too hard on my aging body.