2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[T5towbar]

I stand corrected on the numbers. However, if the UA members would have turned out to vote in the last election... maybe the outcome would have been different. The UA members insinuating the outcome of the last election was the result of the US members of being loyal to Delaney is laughable.  Bottom line... apathy on the UA side is what drove the election results. The UA side votes for the money and disregards scope and job protection. As a result... countless jobs are being lost on the UA side. In the meantime... an election takes place, with an opportunity to vote against the leadership and negotiating team that agreed to the TA on the UA side and the voter participation is dismal and the apathy is excessive. You have to admit... it went against the election strategy of the candidates who chose to run in opposition. If the UA members truly believe the results of the election were based on US members' loyalty to Delaney they have a lot to learn. As I have said all along... the issue is apathy. The issue is the lack of educated members. It is not UA members vs. US members. UA members far exceed US members in numbers within DL 141. I don't understand the reasoning.   

 You are correct, Ograc.
We are a apathetic bunch over here, because a lot of people didn't either take the time out or cared to vote. (I know many that did not vote, even though I explained the reasoning why you they should care to vote.) Also, many felt that they wouldn't be affected by any decisions that are coming down the pike, going about their merry way, not knowing that job loss on the bottom will eventually affect them too. The "27" are coming up soon (probably next month) and I'll bet a lot of those people didn't vote either.
 
The negotiators were hampered from the start because the IAM rushed to file for single carrier before getting any improvements for the sUA members. Mistake #1.   
I knew something fishy was up when the District did not fight for our Cargo. It was given up in a side letter that no one knew about. I (and other like minded) tried to inform and tell people to just show up and vote. (I've explained the reasons and the history on these forums)  But many didn't and we now face the consequences. There is no one to blame for the job losses but us (collectively....) Same as the voting for the District officers. Turnout was light on our side.
 
Tomorrow in my hub, there will be an election for officers, and I will bet that the turnout will be light. I for one will be taking time out to vote.  I care.   I give a damn. And there are many like me who care. I think that the sCO members, once educated more, can make a difference and be a asset to this District. But many don't, but quick to complain why the bids for senior people are getting worse and worse.
 
It's just like politics. People don't realize that it affects your lives one way or the other. You can't escape or ignore it. But you can change things by participating. 

 

[ograc]

 You are correct, Ograc.
We are a apathetic bunch over here, because a lot of people didn't either take the time out or cared to vote. (I know many that did not vote, even though I explained the reasoning why you they should care to vote.) Also, many felt that they wouldn't be affected by any decisions that are coming down the pike, going about their merry way, not knowing that job loss on the bottom will eventually affect them too. The "27" are coming up soon (probably next month) and I'll bet a lot of those people didn't vote either.
 
The negotiators were hampered from the start because the IAM rushed to file for single carrier before getting any improvements for the sUA members. Mistake #1.   
I knew something fishy was up when the District did not fight for our Cargo. It was given up in a side letter that no one knew about. I (and other like minded) tried to inform and tell people to just show up and vote. (I've explained the reasons and the history on these forums)  But many didn't and we now face the consequences. There is no one to blame for the job losses but us (collectively....) Same as the voting for the District officers. Turnout was light on our side.
 
Tomorrow in my hub, there will be an election for officers, and I will bet that the turnout will be light. I for one will be taking time out to vote.  I care.   I give a damn. And there are many like me who care. I think that the sCO members, once educated more, can make a difference and be a asset to this District. But many don't, but quick to complain why the bids for senior people are getting worse and worse.
 
It's just like politics. People don't realize that it affects your lives one way or the other. You can't escape or ignore it. But you can change things by participating. 

Unfortunately, one does not realize what they had; until it is taken away. It's easier to assign blame than to participate or get involved. Garbage in; garbage out. A sad state of affairs... when contracts like this are agreed to by the leadership and ratified by the membership. As a result; we bear witness to what happens.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I stand corrected on the numbers. However, if the UA members would have turned out to vote in the last election... maybe the outcome would have been different. The UA members insinuating the outcome of the last election was the result of the US members of being loyal to Delaney is laughable.  Bottom line... apathy on the UA side is what drove the election results. The UA side votes for the money and disregards scope and job protection. As a result... countless jobs are being lost on the UA side. In the meantime... an election takes place, with an opportunity to vote against the leadership and negotiating team that agreed to the TA on the UA side and the voter participation is dismal and the apathy is excessive. You have to admit... it went against the election strategy of the candidates who chose to run in opposition. If the UA members truly believe the results of the election were based on US members' loyalty to Delaney they have a lot to learn. As I have said all along... the issue is apathy. The issue is the lack of educated members. It is not UA members vs. US members. UA members far exceed US members in numbers within DL 141. I don't understand the reasoning.

ograc
cant deny apathy. At any rate, the election results was ruled invalid so we will do it again. Im hearing maybe a one day vote in april. The dol has to approve it but the intl suggested a one day vote. I like that idea.

 

[AANOTOK]

Off topic, but did someone accidentally (or purposely) hit my "ignore" button for Josh and 700...Haven't seen a post from those two in a while.

 

[ChockJockey]

Off topic, but did someone accidentally (or purposely) hit my "ignore" button for Josh and 700...Haven't seen a post from those two in a while.

 
It's a holiday miracle.
 
But in all seriousness, they're taking an extended honeymoon in Tahiti.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

I certainly hope the IAM/TWU are taking some serious notes here before they enter that room for JOINT TALKS
 
American Airlines flight attendants to get bigger pay raises after all
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/airline-industry/20141218-american-airlines-flight-attendants-to-get-bigger-pay-raises-after-all.ece
 
 
Delta Takes Aim at American for Its Lack of Profit Sharing
http://www.thestreet.com/story/12990232/1/delta-takes-aim-at-american-for-its-lack-of-profit-sharing.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO
 
Bag workers picket Southwest Air over flight delays
http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2014/12/17/bag-workers-picket-southwest-airlines-over-flight-delays/20524357/

 

[Black Magic]

Apperently whatever JCBA the Association negotiates with the company we will have to accept it regardless of voting no as proven by FA's.

 

[charlie Brown]

Apperently whatever JCBA the Association negotiates with the company we will have to accept it regardless of voting no as proven by FA's.

Black Magic
As one member on the last negotiating team and also on the next one. What the pilots and flight attendants agreed to for their jcba we did not. The company got them to agree that they would negotiate for a certain period of time. Then all issues unresolved would go to a arbitrator. They tried to get the IAM to agree to this also, and we did not. So our jcba when it is agreed to, will be decided by all of fleet members when it comes out. We won't have an arbitrator deciding any issues.

 

[Black Magic]

Thanks for the heads up. Finally some good news hopefully.

 

[AANOTOK]

And exactly what role did the arbitrator play in the F/A's JCBA?

 

[charlie Brown]

And exactly what role did the arbitrator play in the F/A's JCBA?

Not sure. Just heard the reports like most all others. I do know he was trying to get " me too clauses " on some issues. But last I read sounds like the company agreed to the pay. It's the insurance that I would be concerned about.

 

[700UW]

Sorry to disappoint some of you, but I have been very busy with work, this is my busiest time of the year.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Black Magic
As one member on the last negotiating team and also on the next one. What the pilots and flight attendants agreed to for their jcba we did not. The company got them to agree that they would negotiate for a certain period of time. Then all issues unresolved would go to a arbitrator. They tried to get the IAM to agree to this also, and we did not. So our jcba when it is agreed to, will be decided by all of fleet members when it comes out. We won't have an arbitrator deciding any issues.

thats good to know. Not that the pilots and stews had to accept all the terms that they accepted in their frameworkagreement with management. I hate giving management credit but the stews screwed themselves, but management still was wise enuf to give them more than the situation allowed.

Hopefully, the twu and their local presidents join the negotiations table soon because their unnecessary delays arenot doing the membership any favors. Hopefully, the local prez in boston will reflect on things and do what is best for the membership.

 

[WeAAsles]

thats good to know. Not that the pilots and stews had to accept all the terms that they accepted in their frameworkagreement with management. I hate giving management credit but the stews screwed themselves, but management still was wise enuf to give them more than the situation allowed.

Hopefully, the twu and their local presidents join the negotiations table soon because their unnecessary delays arenot doing the membership any favors. Hopefully, the local prez in boston will reflect on things and do what is best for the membership.

Supposedly? The two International Presidents had their meeting together? I would like to know how that turned out myself and yes start to get this ball rolling a little. We still do have to wait for what the NMB has to say about the Association though obviously. Right after the holidays are over I expect both sides to start to hit the ground running. I hope that at least those who know they will be negotiating for us and those who think they might be have been reading ALL of the contracts that are out there to find the best items and try to negotiate to get them for us? Just looking at the AA TWU and US IAM contracts does a disservice to all the other good language that can be found in other airline contracts.

On another note though Tim. The issue of BOS is now out of that Presidents hands even if he wanted to have a say.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Supposedly? The two International Presidents had their meeting together? I would like to know how that turned out myself and yes start to get this ball rolling a little. We still do have to wait for what the NMB has to say about the Association though obviously. Right after the holidays are over I expect both sides to start to hit the ground running. I hope that at least those who know they will be negotiating for us and those who think they might be have been reading ALL of the contracts that are out there to find the best items and try to negotiate to get them for us? Just looking at the AA TWU and US IAM contracts does a disservice to all the other good language that can be found in other airline contracts.
On another note though Tim. The issue of BOS is now out of that Presidents hands even if he wanted to have a say.

what is the normal TWU process in negotiations? Prior to negotiations do they have station meetings and local or national surveys? Does each local president work off of a national survey or a local one? Pardon if it sounds ignorant but knowing that Twu locals are more autonomous and engaged, i was curious if all the local presidents brought their local surveys to the ATD and then crafted a strategy from there, of if all Local prez join the negotiation team and work off a survey or ATD baseline. With the iam, locals have nothing to do with these things (not saying bad or good).