2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[cltrat]

I THINK BOB SAID IT BEST IN A MX POST (#2240) ON THE AA SIDE.
 
The reality is that your "Union" would be split between two collective bargaining agents that outsourced control of your contract to an Association. 
 
Remember the saying "You are the Union". The TWU, IAM, IBT, CWA, AMFA etc are commonly called Unions but in reality they are all Collective Bargaining Agents who represent Unions of workers.
 
Our "Union" is the group of coworkers that work under a common contract at a common employer.  Yes there are two unions for mechanics at AA, but there are also two unions of mechanics at UAL, the difference is at AA the two Unions have two different Collective Bargaining agents and at UAL both  Unions have the same Collective bargaining agent. We have a union of AA mechanics who work under a Collective Bargaining Agreement administered by the TWU and PMUS has a Collective bargaining agreement administered by the IAM, at UAL the PMUAL guys have a CBAgreement administered by the IBT and the PMCAL guys have a CBAgreement also administered by the IBT. 
 
The objective for mechanics is to have a single Union of mechanics under a single agreement, at the new AA. Other classifications have the same objectives, the pilots and flight attendants are already there. In both those cases the Collective Bargaining Agent with the smaller number of members at the company backed out, it was the right thing to do. Currently for mechanics at the New AA there are two contracts administered by two different collective bargaining agents. One is the IAM and the other is the TWU, both have current agreements that become amendable in 2018. There is no requirement to amend either of those agreements prior to 2018. Both of those Collective bargaining agents want to keep their commissions, otherwise known as dues, coming in so they struck a deal between themselves to serve their interests. There is zero advantage  for the members to having two Collective bargaining agents represent us, especially under the terms they came up with without any input from any member. This applies to all TWU except Dispatch, sim tech and Flight training. 
 
The Association agreement strips the membership of as much authority as allowed by law and basically outsources administration of our contract to a newly created entity called the Association. If this were an organizing attempt of non-union workers they would not dream of having such language because they would never get anyone to vote in such a Collective bargaining agent. 
 
This Association agreement, conjured up by Jim Little and Buffenbarger not only removes any ability by the members to have input but also removes liability from the two organizations as far as membership lawsuits for DFR violations. In other words the Association can screw the crap out of us, the TWU and IAM get our dues but the Association has no Assets for the members to go after in a DFR. The Association becomes our Collective Bargaining agent but our dues go to the TWU and IAM!!!
 
There is nothing good for the membership in this Association.
 
SAVVY....?

yeah I savvy apparently you don't the part about this being a fleet thread, i hope you mx get whatever it is you seek though imo you have a snowballs chance in hell of AMFA of getting in but good luck with it.

 

[roabilly]

Agreement?  try "association".  As in "joint collective bargaining association". Savvy?

How about JCBC-- Joint Collective Bargaining Committee? 
 

yeah I savvy apparently you don't the part about this being a fleet thread, i hope you mx get whatever it is you seek though imo you have a snowballs chance in hell of AMFA of getting in but good luck with it.

I give it LESS than a snowball's chance in hell!

 

[robbedagain]

Travis, u say Nothi g good for this membership in the Association?.. let me tell u this... when they go in for JCBA they can start w the current US 2014 contract and build up from there

 

[ograc]

Hypothetically; if representation by the agreed to "Association" were to be voted on by the Fleet membership; what choices would be on the ballot? It is my understanding, and it could be wrong, the ballot choice would representation by the "Association" or no representation at all. The floor is open for discussion and debate. Glad we are back on task of discussing pertinent issues. 

 

[charlie Brown]

Ograc
I have heard the same thing as your above post except that I have heard the NMB will probably demand that a space for " other " be on the ballott also. But it is my understanding that you will not be able to vote for " IAM " or " TWU " only, like some people think. They have agreed to the association so we will either vote for the association or for no representation.

 

[robbedagain]

ive always heard it wld be either the Association  or No Representation    Ill personally vote for the Association    given that a union, regardless of wether it is IAM TWU or both   clearly a union is needed in this industry

 

[ograc]

Ograc
I have heard the same thing as your above post except that I have heard the NMB will probably demand that a space for " other " be on the ballott also. But it is my understanding that you will not be able to vote for " IAM " or " TWU " only, like some people think. They have agreed to the association so we will either vote for the association or for no representation.

 
If this is in fact, what the choice will be, then it's a no brainer in my opinion. Representation by the Association! In the end... I would assume write ins would be counted as a vote for representation. Additionally, it is my understanding the threshold needed for representation will be 50% + 1 of the ballots cast under new NMB guidelines. The old threshold was 50% + 1 of all eligible voters. In the past, under these guidelines, the apathetic voter, who chose not to vote was counted as a "no " vote for representation. Please correct me if I am wrong... but that will no longer be the case.
 

 

[TRAVIS]

Travis, u say Nothi g good for this membership in the Association?.. let me tell u this... when they go in for JCBA they can start w the current US 2014 contract and build up from there

I hope the best for you fleet service guys, But as you said I have nothing good to say about this Association as I agree with Bob, This is not going to work and the members are the ones who will suffer as you will pay your dues no matter what to the UNIONS no matter what or how long it takes the Association.
Have a good one. I will leave you ramp guys to it as it's your vote not mine.

 

[robbedagain]

I too wish you a lot of luck getting AMFA in    good luck

 

[lax]

Hypothetically; if representation by the agreed to "Association" were to be voted on by the Fleet membership; what choices would be on the ballot? It is my understanding, and it could be wrong, the ballot choice would representation by the "Association" or no representation at all. The floor is open for discussion and debate. Glad we are back on task of discussing pertinent issues. 

yes, that is correct.  if they were really interested in the "will" of the membership, which they're not, the choices would be twu, iam, association, no union.  but as usual the "leadership, lmao" continues to make unilateral decisions without membership input.  this is just another one in a long line of many…what a joke!

 

[freedom]

I support unionism in whatever form it takes .

 

[ChockJockey]

I've been hearing talk about a bunch of positions opening up in PHX, FT and PT lead and agent.  Anyone have any details on this?

 

[freedom]

Well the rumor I've heard is that up to 24 furloughed AA agents may come back ...

But it's just a rumor ..

 

[Jester]

I've been hearing talk about a bunch of positions opening up in PHX, FT and PT lead and agent.  Anyone have any details on this?

 
Word around the campfire is that around 28 FT ramp positions were made available based upon seniority, for which I witnessed large numbers of leads gleefully accepted in a giddy celebration of high fives and chest bumps.  Not sure as to who will be the next group of victims willing to fill those former leads shoes-- maybe those furloughed AA PHX agents who don't know any better?
 
I am also hearing that the idea offering PT lead positions was an utter failure with virtually no interest... go figure those masochist PTers who wanted to be leads would have accepted the FT lead positions when they were offered in the past.
 
And finally, something like 50 PT positions will be offered to new hires off the street and furloughed AA fleet agents.  Personally, I think that appears to be a large number, especially with the loss in a sizable number of international flights to LAX... one to be believed when seen.

 

[Vortilon]

Hypothetically; if representation by the agreed to "Association" were to be voted on by the Fleet membership; what choices would be on the ballot? It is my understanding, and it could be wrong, the ballot choice would representation by the "Association" or no representation at all. The floor is open for discussion and debate. Glad we are back on task of discussing pertinent issues. 

 
For there to be "no representation", over 50% would have to actually vote "no representation".  If you vote the association down, you just continue on with your current union.  This whole "no representation" deal is a scare tactic, and it's obviously working.