2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[freedom]

nope , don't believe it , i'm the doom and gloom guy remember ?

 

[robbedagain]

freedom   how much of those millions alone are made just solely on the bag fees food sales   forget all of the other bs that is taken away  and the donkeys running the airlines still make out like bandits regardless

 

[WeAAsles]

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/apl/aviation_forecasts/aerospace_forecasts/2013-2033/media/2013_Forecast.pdf

 

[robbedagain]

WeAA  don't bother replying to him bec he is never gonna get it no matter how much or how hard you try.  he claims to be the king of the economics...  Id sure as hell would never want him to run the country!   After all he is the one who would toss and has done so his own coworkers down the river without the life preservers

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAA  don't bother replying to him bec he is never gonna get it no matter how much or how hard you try.  he claims to be the king of the economics...  Id sure as hell would never want him to run the country!   After all he is the one who would toss and has done so his own coworkers down the river without the life preservers

Robbed you have to understand that there are plenty of people like Freedom out there. They just don't all come on here and speak their minds but they do come on here and read. Some dogs have maybe been kicked in their sides too long and too hard to ever get over it? But most dogs live in the moment and adjust to their new environments.

That's something we have to do now. We read, we study, we share information and we have to adapt to the information that's in front of us. I've been reading the forecast models for awhile now and they're looking pretty good. Of course the company would prefer we didn't read it or even more so share that info with each other. That goes against the grain of keeping them uneducated which guarantees more control for them.

Remember Robbed you're not only answering the one poster but all those others who read and never say a peep as well.

 

[robbedagain]

true WeAA   we have at least 2 to 4 of them at work  and one of those  well lets just say that person should never have made it past training!   some of those peeps  (probably freedom himself) have never really been thru what we have endured  you know bro!   BTW  I enjoy reading your posts

 

[Jester]

Let me go out on a limb and piss-off everyone (for which I have a unique talent for in real life too btw)...  I never understood how we had holiday pay in which if fleet agent is scheduled to work a holiday, we are paid 1 1/2x, but if we are off, then we are paid 1/2x... so really if I come to work on a holiday I am being paid straight time, because if I wasn't there, then it would be half pay?  There's a dream job... everyday is holiday, and I never come to work, but still get half pay!
 
It seems to me that holiday pay should be for those people who are ACTUALLY working that day which might reward people who are scheduled to those holidays instead of those fortunate enough to VTO, drop, trade, get vacation, bid days off, call-in sick or call in FMLA.  Frankly, maybe Management would be faster on issuing advanced VTOs if they knew agents were making double time otherwise vs. basically straight time as presently?  From the Company's POV, don't pay everyone holiday pay, and it makes double time for actual people working more afforable.

 

[WeAAsles]

true WeAA   we have at least 2 to 4 of them at work  and one of those  well lets just say that person should never have made it past training!   some of those peeps  (probably freedom himself) have never really been thru what we have endured  you know bro!   BTW  I enjoy reading your posts

Thanks Robbed. I appreciated the support yesterday from all you guys a lot.

 

[WeAAsles]

Let me go out on a limb and piss-off everyone (for which I have a unique talent for in real life too btw)...  I never understood how we had holiday pay in which if fleet agent is scheduled to work a holiday, we are paid 1 1/2x, but if we are off, then we are paid 1/2x... so really if I come to work on a holiday I am being paid straight time, because if I wasn't there, then it would be half pay?  There's a dream job... everyday is holiday, and I never come to work, but still get half pay!
 
It seems to me that holiday pay should be for those people who are ACTUALLY working that day which might reward people who are scheduled to those holidays instead of those fortunate enough to VTO, drop, trade, get vacation, bid days off, call-in sick or call in FMLA.  Frankly, maybe Management would be faster on issuing advanced VTOs if they knew agents were making double time otherwise vs. basically straight time as presently?  From the Company's POV, don't pay everyone holiday pay, and it makes double time for actual people working more afforable.

Jester the way it used to work with us was you got the holiday pay on the day you worked or if you were scheduled off or on vacation you got it on your next working day back. If you CS'd (Swap Shift) off you still got it on your next day back as well.

You did lose the holiday pay if you called in sick on the holiday or the day before or after the holiday. That created the incentive for people to come to work, especially at 2+1/2 base rate. 

People who actually called in sick were looked at as completely off their rockers by the members so the company basically had zero manning issues on holidays.

 

[ograc]

Ograc
I agree with you for the most part. But what I was really trying to say, even the ones that try and attack someone's character, especially when they want to be a leader of the membership, it allows all those who read to see who they really are. I think this forum was one of the main tools in the last election that the membership used to educate one another and decide who they were voting for. That's a good thing IMO. But I agree! Let's move forward in discussing the JCBA.

 
I agree CB. Unfortunately, the casual members who views this forum, cannot distinguish those who want to be a leader. They do not know the poster's name, history, biography or agenda. They have no way of measuring the credentials of one poster from another. TN posted under his own name this past election. The members were able to identify his beliefs and attacks. They voted accordingly. PSA could be anyone. How are they to determine if his posts are legitimate? How are they to determine if he has been an active, involved and engaged member. For all they know... PSA could be TN, AH, an AGC or an anti union scab. I just want the members that view this forum to realize; anyone resorting to character attacks on other posters on this forum, should be considered as a red flag going forward. As we approach JCBA talks; constructive dialogue among members is needed at this time. Any other dialogue should be considered distractive and counter productive. I ask that we keep the posts productive in nature as we try to gauge what needs to be addressed in JCBA talks. Let's move forward! Let's form a united front based on membership feedback from both IAM and TWU represented members.
     
 

 

[ograc]

Freedom my guess would be you are speaking about the station staffing language of "SCOPE" People mention scope all the time but are rarely specific as to what aspect of it they are interested in? "SCOPE" speaks for many different aspects of our job functions and the work the company is contractually obligated to have us perform. That needs to be considered in the conversation.

WeAAsles,
Very good point. Everyone mentions scope. Job protection and scope has different meanings depending on who you ask. To those in the larger stations; scope and job protection may be defined as an employee's ability to secure his job provided they are willing to commute or re-locate to a station with openings. To those in outline stations; scope and job protection is language that protects my job in my station. The members' definition of job protection and scope in outline stations is completely different than the members' definition in the larger stations. This disconnect needs to be fixed prior to entering into JCBA talks. IMO... we need to protect existing work in existing stations. There is no justifiable reason why we should retreat from this issue. This New American is projected to make staggering profits in the future. We should be conceding nothing regarding covered work in existing stations. If anything... we should be bringing back covered work to outline stations. We need to insure we get our fair share of the pie. Members on both sides have sacrificed enough to keep both airlines solvent.
Lock and Load!

 

[28L_or_10R?]

So much drama.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles,
Very good point. Everyone mentions scope. Job protection and scope has different meanings depending on who you ask. To those in the larger stations; scope and job protection may be defined as an employee's ability to secure his job provided they are willing to commute or re-locate to a station with openings. To those in outline stations; scope and job protection is language that protects my job in my station. The members' definition of job protection and scope in outline stations is completely different than the members' definition in the larger stations. This disconnect needs to be fixed prior to entering into JCBA talks. IMO... we need to protect existing work in existing stations. There is no justifiable reason why we should retreat from this issue. This New American is projected to make staggering profits in the future. We should be conceding nothing regarding covered work in existing stations. If anything... we should be bringing back covered work to outline stations. We need to insure we get our fair share of the pie. Members on both sides have sacrificed enough to keep both airlines solvent.
Lock and Load!

Since we're discussing possibilities and collective bargaining is still a two way street and we at least have to have a small measure of reason in those negotiations. This is partially my wish list. I agree with your comment Cargo and think we should hold Doug Parker's feet to the fire that he has been telling everyone that we are the World's largest airline and we should have contracts to reflect that. The BASE rate for me is easy. Give me a solid gain above our peers and then tie in future raises with the average forecasted inflation rate so I don't feel any erosion in my pay. I also want to see some of the best aspects of every airline union contract out there incorporated into the middle. Even if that means being creative and thinking outside the box to get that accomplished I want to see something in my CBA that I can say "Wow that's different and is workable" 

I want to see a JCBA that people can be excited about and I want it to pass by at least the same rate that you guys just passed yours. On top of that and I know that this hasn't been the norm at least in my career and from what I've heard even before I started with AA. I'd like to see a long contract. Not the average 3 year deal where we have to keep riding the merry go round all the time. If the gains are very good there should be an emphasis on all sides to lock that in? For us it's the knowledge of consistent yearly gains and for the company that creates the long term stability that Banks and Investors love.

 

[psa8979]

Reality is 70 % of the Membership doesn't care what the 30 % who are paying attention and participating with their Union until it effects them . Within the 30% that are participating less then 5% have the authority to negotiate with Management. The problem with the 5% is they our limited by the 1% what they can say because of NDC(secrecy), loyalty, and control . 94% of the Membership is left out of the information loop for control by the 1% .Thus many Members turn to social media like AF. Information is power. Many who have power will control information to retain power . Once a JCNC is picked (if not all-ready ) for a JCBA I suggest UPDATES should be released every 30 days or when there is any major Issue or Article change that could effect Membership either negatively or positively .Transparency by the UNION should be # 1 priority moving forward with THE ASSOCIATION . RD Hooton IAM FS SFO .

 

[ograc]

Reality is 70 % of the Membership doesn't care what the 30 % who are paying attention and participating with their Union until it effects them . Within the 30% that are participating less then 5% have the authority to negotiate with Management. The problem with the 5% is they our limited by the 1% what they can say because of NDC(secrecy), loyalty, and control . 94% of the Membership is left out of the information loop for control by the 1% .Thus many Members turn to social media like AF. Information is power. Many who have power will control information to retain power . Once a JCNC is picked (if not all-ready ) for a JCBA I suggest UPDATES should be released every 30 days or when there is any major Issue or Article change that could effect Membership either negatively or positively .Transparency by the UNION should be # 1 priority moving forward with THE ASSOCIATION . RD Hooton IAM FS SFO .

 
Brother Hooton. You have been around long enough to realize proposals put forth, by both the company and the union, during contract negotiations, are one day on the table and the next day off. Negotiations and subsequent proposals are very fluid and subject to change. If the union was to update the membership on every proposal put forth or taken from the table the membership's heads would be spinning. Not sure where you come up with your percentages but I will agree the apathy among members is at a disgraceful and disappointing level. Another issue that needs to be fixed going forward. Have you done time in PIT in the past? Unless I'm mistaken... I believe I remember you.