2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[robbedagain]

WeAAsles  I don't do a whole lot of OT either  I would be satisfied with the 10 hr 4 day work week too   I don't know if any of PMUS stations use that but I do remember it was in the older contracts.   On the other hand we have DATs that some folks like to use   basically a paid day off as long as you get someone to work your shift.   Ive never taken any bec I prefer the week long vacations....

 

[Kev3188]

We had a couple 4/10's here. People loved them. Then our mgr. decided it "wasn't fair" to the junior people, and abolished them. You can imagine how that went.

We're rebidding again soon, and I'm hoping they make a return. As a crew Chief, the happier my guys are, the better.

 

[WeAAsles]

We had a couple 4/10's here. People loved them. Then our mgr. decided it "wasn't fair" to the junior people, and abolished them. You can imagine how that went.

We're rebidding again soon, and I'm hoping they make a return. As a crew Chief, the happier my guys are, the better.

I always have a problem when junior members complain about what senior members are getting over them. It's ridiculous. We all do our time in the trenches and work our way up. Those same complaining members are the one's I've seen over the years when they reach that plateau don't complain any longer once those advantages come to them. They seem to easily and conveniently lose their outrage for those below them it seems.

We were ALL at the back of the line when we hired on.

 

[WeAAsles]

Understanding the Path to a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement
Next week will mark the 30-day countdown to our expedited contract as laid out in the Negotiations Protocol Agreement with the final day of bargaining scheduled for September 19th. The process that APFA, AFA and AA have crafted is different than any negotiations process we’ve seen before. It comes with a defined amount of time for bargaining an industry leading contract as well as a backstop that guarantees a market rate Agreement. It is important that all members understand the process clearly every step of the way.

http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=1450c9c25bd3b5096022a9f71&id=55239a9d68&e=00890ede63#RepInOps


This is off topic as far as Fleet but it's good to be aware that this process is moving forward in case there was any way to possibly be able to expedite our negotiations in the future.

 

[blue collar]

Those WERE called PV (Paid Vacation) days and you could take up to 5 per year that came out of your vacation bank for next year. The company has said that they are doing away with that program.

All OT paid on our side now is at 1.5x no matter how many hours you work. If you work less than 40 hours in a week and sign up and get called in for day off, it's paid out as straight time until you go over 40. The exception is early call or holdover. The hours you have for the week don't matter. It's paid out at Time and one half irregardless.

I remember when they used to have flex weeks, where you paid for it, but it was another week of vacation. The OT I was referring to was only for holidays, you would want language that kept you at 2x (or 2.5x or even 3x) for all hours worked outside of your scheduled, otherwise you would just fall back to 1.5x - which is less than what you're making for working your regular shift (where's the incentive?).

 

[blue collar]

WeAAsles  I don't do a whole lot of OT either  I would be satisfied with the 10 hr 4 day work week too   I don't know if any of PMUS stations use that but I do remember it was in the older contracts.   On the other hand we have DATs that some folks like to use   basically a paid day off as long as you get someone to work your shift.   Ive never taken any bec I prefer the week long vacations....

When I was at US you never had to find someone to work for you to take a DAT. That was one of your vacation days- just broken up to singilar days vs using a whole week. If you wanted, you could take 4/5 DATs in a row to make a week, but never had to find someone to work your shift. They even had 1/2 DATs, but I was in MX, not fleet so it may be different for you.

 

[Jester]

We had a couple 4/10's here. People loved them. Then our mgr. decided it "wasn't fair" to the junior people, and abolished them. You can imagine how that went.

We're rebidding again soon, and I'm hoping they make a return. As a crew Chief, the happier my guys are, the better.

 
Nothing in the US contract prevents management from offering 4 10-hour shifts.  In fact, we have some for the current bid starting next week for some AA lines and the aircraft remote teams.
 
I understand as to why Management prefers 5 8-hour shifts, as it reduces staffing by 1 worker per day... 5 people working 8-hour shifts is the same number of hours as 4 people working 10-hour shifts.  10-hour shifts only make sense if those people can stay busy during those additional 2 hours or when it wouldn't otherwise lead to a part-time (4 hour shift) working just 2 hours.
 
My experience has been there are times that it makes sense from an operational point-of-view to have 4/10s, but that's usually the exception.

 

[ChockJockey]

I always have a problem when junior members complain about what senior members are getting over them. It's ridiculous. We all do our time in the trenches and work our way up. Those same complaining members are the one's I've seen over the years when they reach that plateau don't complain any longer once those advantages come to them. They seem to easily and conveniently lose their outrage for those below them it seems.

We were ALL at the back of the line when we hired on.

 
True, but everyone spends a different amount of time at the bottom.  If one was hired at the beginning of a staffing ramp-up then their seniority would advance more quickly than, say, the last group of people that were hired on as full-time in a station.  The class I was hired with was at the bottom for a week; the last class of full-time new hires in PHX have been at the very bottom for about five years now.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
True, but everyone spends a different amount of time at the bottom.  If one was hired at the beginning of a staffing ramp-up then their seniority would advance more quickly than, say, the last group of people that were hired on as full-time in a station.  The class I was hired with was at the bottom for a week; the last class of full-time new hires in PHX have been at the very bottom for about five years now.

That's the nature of the business and being in a Union where seniority rules Chock. I hired on in 95. I was offered the job back in 88, 91 and 93 by my buddy who had 86 seniority and kept turning him down. Well the company did a massive amount of hiring in 91 and 93 and that certainly has affected me to this day. I'm in the most Junior hub in our system and as a full timer I have 1300 to 2130 Fri, Sat. If I want a solid Sat, Sun my shift would start at 1630 next bid. The average age BTW of all of those people they hired before me is my age. So it's been a long time trying to get up that ladder compared to them.

Should I blame them. Of course not. Taking it to the extreme should I be happy if one of them get's fired or worse croaks? What would that say about me. And believe it or not I have seen co- workers on the death wall and had people ask "What was his seniority" Pretty F'd up huh.  

 

[T5towbar]

That's the nature of the business and being in a Union where seniority rules Chock. I hired on in 95. I was offered the job back in 88, 91 and 93 by my buddy who had 86 seniority and kept turning him down. Well the company did a massive amount of hiring in 91 and 93 and that certainly has affected me to this day. I'm in the most Junior hub in our system and as a full timer I have 1300 to 2130 Fri, Sat. If I want a solid Sat, Sun my shift would start at 1630 next bid. The average age BTW of all of those people they hired before me is my age. So it's been a long time trying to get up that ladder compared to them.

Should I blame them. Of course not. Taking it to the extreme should I be happy if one of them get's fired or worse croaks? What would that say about me. And believe it or not I have seen co- workers on the death wall and had people ask "What was his seniority" Pretty F'd up huh.  

 
It's funny you mentioned that.
In my case, junior members will be reduced and senior members will be forced to retire, because there won't be junior members to buffer them. So those guys above me will have to get in a bin/pit and do real grunt work again. And some will have crappy days off again. I was lucky enough to get above two major hiring waves. If this BS keeps up, the people from the second wave will be nearly gone. This is how the company want's to eliminate us. It's a devious plan in my opinion. It used to be normal attrition where senior members retired and those junior moved up. Now that there isn't any new hiring (temps will be used seasonally), it seems like there is an attack from the top and the bottom.
 
Just my thoughts on this.......

 

[ograc]

Those WERE called PV (Paid Vacation) days and you could take up to 5 per year that came out of your vacation bank for next year. The company has said that they are doing away with that program.

All OT paid on our side now is at 1.5x no matter how many hours you work. If you work less than 40 hours in a week and sign up and get called in for day off, it's paid out as straight time until you go over 40. The exception is early call or holdover. The hours you have for the week don't matter. It's paid out at Time and one half irregardless.

WeAAsles,
Another gap between existing contracts has been identified. Overtime: 1.5x no matter how many hours worked at AA. Under the current CBA at US double time is obtainable on days off provided you have worked OT on your first day off. Another gap identified that needs fixed in JCBA negotiations. Hopefully, the members who view this forum are taking notes. It is critical for all members to understand the issues that need fixed. It is critical for all members to remain supportive of the future NC. The work will be cut out for them. There are many issues that need improvement and fixed in JCBA talks. IMO... the most important of all is scope. Let's quit giving away work and union represented jobs!  

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles,
Another gap between existing contracts has been identified. Overtime: 1.5x no matter how many hours worked at AA. Under the current CBA at US double time is obtainable on days off provided you have worked OT on your first day off. Another gap identified that needs fixed in JCBA negotiations. Hopefully, the members who view this forum are taking notes. It is critical for all members to understand the issues that need fixed. It is critical for all members to remain supportive of the future NC. The work will be cut out for them. There are many issues that need improvement and fixed in JCBA talks. IMO... the most important of all is scope. Let's quit giving away work and union represented jobs!

Again prior to the concessions of 03, we were paid Double time on our second day off call in as well. The only catch was because it was at Double time you went to the bottom of the list to be called. Being called in for the second day was an extreme rarity.

 

[AANOTOK]

I asked this question awhile back and never saw an answer. If it was, I apologize. Does US get shift differential?
We get one penny for afternoons, two cents for midnights and three cents for a split shift.

 

[cltrat]

I asked this question awhile back and never saw an answer. If it was, I apologize. Does US get shift differential?
We get one penny for afternoons, two cents for midnights and three cents for a split shift.

currently we do not

 

[roabilly]

Does anyone find it interesting that since the elections are over until at least 2016, several posters that spent countless hours in here tearing down the IAM leadership are now silent? Isn't it ironic that they claimed to be here for the Membership, and now that you guys are actually making progress on communicating, and focusing on the best JCBA possible, they have fled the scene!
 
Consider this proof positive they were NOT here for the Membership (you), but THEMSELVES. Actually, most are the same poster, so I should say -- “himself”. When the time comes to vote for officers again... I’ll bet the rhetoric begins anew, with a sudden interest in the well-being of the Membership of course... (wink – wink)
 
You guys are now using this forum for the right non-political reasons... keep it going, and I hope you are able to secure an awesome Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement!