2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[DFWFSC]

on the wide bodies are the team building the cans or are they coming from the bagroom?

Both. Let's say DFW-HNL leaves at 12pm. Any connections that land lets say between 10am and 12pm will be taken to the gate and the line guys will scan and load bags in to the cans and anything before that will be put into the "system" or bagroom as we call it and they will scan and load into the cans.

 

[Jester]

At DFW each gate has 1 Crew Chief--2 belly guys--2 transfer bag drivers and 1 local bag driver. Plus, there is a 1030am-1900pm person assigned to each gate and will help where needed. Most gates are up to 6 or 7 turns in a 8hr shift with very high loads. The widebody gates are high seniority as they usually do 2 or 3 turns or less. There is also LTS-Line Transfer Support where they send out drivers to help run bags when the two gate guys cant handle a large volume off a trip. So, sometimes we have as many as 8 or 9 guys working a flight, but most are around 45min turns these days and heavy.

 
We don't have that level of luxury in PHX... typical flight would have 1 lead and 2 assists (belly guys). Depending upon the number of connecting bags and cities and the time constraints, 2 - 3 connect runners are dispatched along with a local runner.  Usually it is just 1 mainline connect runner and 1 express (Piedmont RJs) if the plane is on time and under 80 bags.  If the flight is heavy, then we may get 1 "hit team" person (it is a "team" of one).  As we rarely have wide body flights, typically our largest and heaviest loads are a B757 to HNL, as I am estimating 190 bags and maybe 3,000+ pounds of freight.  So in reality, we have 3-man teams to each gate (assuming the gate isn't unstaffed, when Managers move teams around as planes are slotted), with runners and extra help being dispatched on an as needed basis.  Figure during an 8-hour shift, maybe 4-5 flights.

 

[DFWFSC]

We don't have that level of luxury in PHX... typical flight would have 1 lead and 2 assists (belly guys). Depending upon the number of connecting bags and cities and the time constraints, 2 - 3 connect runners are dispatched along with a local runner.  Usually it is just 1 mainline connect runner and 1 express (Piedmont RJs) if the plane is on time and under 80 bags.  If the flight is heavy, then we may get 1 "hit team" person (it is a "team" of one).  As we rarely have wide body flights, typically our largest and heaviest loads are a B757 to HNL, as I am estimating 190 bags and maybe 3,000+ pounds of freight.  So in reality, we have 3-man teams to each gate (assuming the gate isn't unstaffed, when Managers move teams around as planes are slotted), with runners and extra help being dispatched on an as needed basis.  Figure during an 8-hour shift, maybe 4-5 flights.

AA has taken out the sliding carpets in all 737/757s so the zone crew chief sends out 2 extra belly people on all 737/757s if both bellys have bags. We get 737s with 250 bags and 757s with 300 bags quite a bit. If it's a widebody from MIA or LAX there can be as many as 10 or 12 transfer drivers running bags...those flights are nasty. The AA/AE operation at DFW is spread out over 4 separate terminals and it's quite a challenge to get all the bags ran in a short period of time.

 

[john john]

The AE folks that took over most of the AA work after BK are non-union and are classified as station agents. The AE union guys are in the hubs and a few others like RDU and or CMH and maybe one or two more...I think they have 18 union stations staffed.

How can they have some in the union and some not ?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
We don't have that level of luxury in PHX... typical flight would have 1 lead and 2 assists (belly guys). Depending upon the number of connecting bags and cities and the time constraints, 2 - 3 connect runners are dispatched along with a local runner.  Usually it is just 1 mainline connect runner and 1 express (Piedmont RJs) if the plane is on time and under 80 bags.  If the flight is heavy, then we may get 1 "hit team" person (it is a "team" of one).  As we rarely have wide body flights, typically our largest and heaviest loads are a B757 to HNL, as I am estimating 190 bags and maybe 3,000+ pounds of freight.  So in reality, we have 3-man teams to each gate (assuming the gate isn't unstaffed, "when Managers move teams" around as planes are slotted), with runners and extra help being dispatched on an as needed basis.  Figure during an 8-hour shift, maybe 4-5 flights.

So Jester let me ask you. On those 3 man teams if your Lead is counted in the mix. Who runs your local bags and since you require 2 wing walkers and a pusher how does that work?

I highlighted the one particular area to point out on our side management cannot direct the workforce absent a Crew Chief. That job of moving people around if needed is left up to a coordinator who is also a CC.

I also understand that in your CBA management can perform some fleet work. On our side they cannot unless we refuse to do something for safety reasons.

 

[ograc]

The first way for people to become involved and aware in this conversation is to read, understand and ask questions about each others particular contracts. Knowledge is empowerment.

http://twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdf

http://www.iam141.org/docs/IAM-FS_2008_Contract_Final_to_Print_102808.pdf

http://www.iam141.org/us/docs/USAirwaystermsheet063014.pdf

Have fun reading people.

Thank you for the links WeAAsles. Research and knowledge is needed by the membership as we enter into JCBA talks. Knowledge, concerning both contracts, is critical when members consider where we need to go in JCBA talks. I would encourage everyone to review both contacts. Upon review; I believe there are cases where one is better than the other. This is the task, the future JCBA Negotiating Committee, will have before them. It would help if the membership has done their due diligence regarding a comprehensive review and comparison of both CBAs. Knowledge leads to solidarity; which in turn leads to empowerment. Solidarity is a virtue that will be needed as we enter into JCBA talks. A virtue that has been noticeably lacking. It's time to educate. It's time to build solidarity among both groups. It starts with educating the membership through research and discussion. Let us begin. 

 

[WeAAsles]

How can they have some in the union and some not ?

Easily depending on the language in their (AE) contract. Believe it or not AE outsources cities just like we have. That Ground Handling business would be a separate entity outside the barganing unit.

The ground Handling business is technically not a part of American Eagle.

 

[WeAAsles]

Thank you for the links WeAAsles. Research and knowledge is needed by the membership as we enter into JCBA talks. Knowledge, concerning both contracts, is critical when members consider where we need to go in JCBA talks. I would encourage everyone to review both contacts. Upon review; I believe there are cases where one is better than the other. This is the task, the future JCBA Negotiating Committee, will have before them. It would help if the membership has done their due diligence regarding a comprehensive review and comparison of both CBAs. Knowledge leads to solidarity; which in turn leads to empowerment. Solidarity is a virtue that will be needed as we enter into JCBA talks. A virtue that has been noticeably lacking. It's time to educate. It's time to build solidarity among both groups. It starts with educating the membership through research and discussion. Let us begin. 

Thanks Cargo. Another one that we should also be aware of if we really want to make Industry comparisons has to be the UAL contract as well. Hoping of course to balance their improvements against the station staffing language.

http://www.iam141.org/docs/2013-2016%20FLEET%20SERVICE%20EMPLOYEES.pdf

 

[john john]

Easily depending on the language in their (AE) contract. Believe it or not AE outsources cities just like we have. That Ground Handling business would be a separate entity outside the barganing unit.

The ground Handling business is technically not a part of American Eagle.

When Piedmont had a union vote all were included per the NMB how can some be union some not same class and craft. Did some body cut a deal?

 

[WeAAsles]

When Piedmont had a union vote all were included per the NMB how can some be union some not same class and craft. Did some body cut a deal?

Eagle ground handling would be basically a wholly owned subsidiary of the American Airlines Group. They would not be able to work aircraft that fall under the auspices of the CBA between the TWU and AA. They would work aircraft outside of that CBA.

 

[john john]

Eagle ground handling would be basically a wholly owned subsidiary of the American Airlines Group. They would not be able to work aircraft that fall under the auspices of the CBA between the TWU and AA. They would work aircraft outside of that CBA.

Why are just a few station union at AE and not the whole airline how did that come about

 

[DFWFSC]

Why are just a few station union at AE and not the whole airline how did that come about

The AE guys that are union are strictly ramp workers only and mostly at the hubs and maybe a few stations that have a lot of AE flights like CMH and RDU. The AE people that work in cities like Madison Wis. and Cedar Rapids, IA or Waco, Tx...etc are classified as station agents and are cross utilized on the ramp/counter/gate..etc and are not union. The AE people that took over for some of the AA outsource stations are cross utilized station agents who will load a AA flight then run up and work United gate then go dump lavs on a Alaska flight then run and push a Allegiant off the gate then go work Sun Country bagroom...their all over the place. Some of those stations are AE station agents and some are Envoy Ground Handling...it varies from city to city.

 

[ograc]

Why are just a few station union at AE and not the whole airline how did that come about

Interesting question john john. I was always under the impression, under NMB election rules and the RLA, the election would involve the entire system.

 

[WeAAsles]

Interesting question john john. I was always under the impression, under NMB election rules and the RLA, the election would involve the entire system.

Cargo let's put it this way. You guys have stations where flights go into but are not staffed by IAM members. Those are currently not stations that you are contractual obligated to work due to language in your CBA. Now let's say Doug Parker decided to start a ground handling business called USAir Ground Service. That business subsidiary would be allowed to work in stations where you are not staffed and also be able to bid for the work of other airlines. 

They could actually even work in cities that you are staffed in, only on aircraft that doesn't fall under your CBA like commuters or OAL work.

It's a company within a company.

 

[mike33]

Why are just a few station union at AE and not the whole airline how did that come about

At one time usair was only union in 4-5 hubs i think...the rest were non union