2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

As much as the EWR guys at both LGA and JFK want to get back to EWR, you'd be hard pressed to find one that would go back at the bottom of the food chain.
Top pay is useless if you're getting the crap knocked out of you every day.
 
The NY One Station is  TWU under the Alliance anyway due to weight of PMAA numbers.They've said they'll wait till a JCBA.

Of course absolutely. Any type of offer would be more likely for people who can't drive back home and are feeling the pressure from their families by being a commuter or people who took furlough to the street.

Same thing here in MIA. I doubt anyone would take a recall to FLL to be pasted to the bottom and have to work their koolie off. I certainly wouldn't and I live 5 miles away from FLL and 25 to MIA.

 

[T5towbar]

 
I don't pretend to be an expert on NYC transit, but I would imagine one could be furloughed from EWR, and still keep the same home while working in either LGA and JFK.  In PHX, we have people displaced from LAS, SNA, PIT, and AUS (and some who are still commuting hundreds of miles) who would eagerly accept a recall from either US or AA, as they will still be on the bottom of the seniority list regardless

 It would be extremely hard to commute to LGA or JFK if you lived in NJ and didn't have a car. The only transit option is a bus that runs to the airport (LGA) from Manhattan. And you have the AirTrain in NYC from Queens. Driving to either is no picnic either, but is better if you work early hours and no traffic. This is if you live in Jersey (which I do.) I have some guys that work with me commute from NYC, and it works for them. But being in a hub, you can get a shift that works for you.
 
That's what I also wanted to know about situations like that where you have a split operation. If you are recalled, you would have to go in the bottom of the station's seniority list.
 
And the vendor that does the AA work is World Flight. They do Virgin and Alaska in the same pod as well.
In this case US will get the AA work, and AA recalls will backfill? Or if not enough recalls, then Bid List or street? 
Just askin......

 

[Jester]

I see your point of view but 2 things. #1 I don't think you have as many people on furlough from closed stations as you didn't lose as many as us because of that Tier 1, 2, (3) gig that kept most of your statons active? #2 AA people would have to apply for a job as well IMO if they wanted to move somewhere that they didn't formerly work. 

Like say I wanted to go to CLT. I've never worked there before so I very much doubt I would be offered to work there without being a complete new hire in every way. I would have to wait till there is a JCBA before I could put in a transfer unless I was off my rocker and was willing to give up my 19 years for my love of the Queen City and the Billy Graham Library.

 
I don't recall the number of closed stations, but actually, we had quite a few as a result of the CBA ratified several years ago with the merge of US and AW fleet agents.  If I recall correctly, AW TWU agreement protected scope if only 1 flight a week performed by AW mainline.  Of course, the trade-off was that the payscale topped-off at $14/hour (after 14 years?), started at $7.50/hour, and it took 6 years to make $10/hour.  When the joint contract was passed overwhelmingly by the West (old America West guys) and marginally rejected by the East (old US guys), it lead to the elimination many protected West stations which required 56 mainline flights a week (but for some odd reason, other stations required much higher number of mainline flights a week as with SNA), and the sub-contracting of OMA, MKE, AUS, ELP, etc.  I am sure that someone has a list of closed West stations under the joint US/AW CBA; however, the recall rights were for only 4 years, but that matters little to the person wanting to still go back.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
I don't recall the number of closed stations, but actually, we had quite a few as a result of the CBA ratified several years ago with the merge of US and AW fleet agents.  If I recall correctly, AW TWU agreement protected scope if only 1 flight a week performed by AW mainline.  Of course, the trade-off was that the payscale topped-off at $14/hour (after 14 years?), started at $7.50/hour, and it took 6 years to make $10/hour.  When the joint contract was passed overwhelmingly by the West (old America West guys) and marginally rejected by the East (old US guys), it lead to the elimination many protected West stations which required 56 mainline flights a week (but for some odd reason, other stations required much higher number of mainline flights a week as with SNA), and the sub-contracting of OMA, MKE, AUS, ELP, etc.  I am sure that someone has a list of closed West stations under the joint US/AW CBA; however, the recall rights were for only 4 years, but that matters little to the person wanting to still go back.

I think $14 per hour is extremely low no matter what part of the US you live in but if we did think more in line with COLA's for certain respective geographical locations we would have a better chance at keeping more stations open in the future and not always fighting the company with them wanting to close them. What's going on over at UAL should be a lesson for all of us. In some markets the company and us just can't compete with subs paying no more than $12 per hour to their employees. The company does of course pay a higher rate above that $12 to the sub company and they also pay to not have total control over the work performed. The turnover rate is very high among those companies as well.

I don't like the idea of tiered cities but for many the alternative to be able to remain home may be worth the price to the individual and his family?

Hubs will always get the premium rate because they generate the most revenue to be able to afford the rate but let's be honest here. The "COL" for DFW and CLT bears no relation to the "COL" in say NYC or LAX.

http://www.costoflivingbystate.org/

 

[mike33]

According to the association facts there will be no system flush. So those newly hired will get to keep there jobs and those with recall will have to wait until there are openings to get back in.

Let's take a page from the worst kept secret floating around out there though. Say an AA guy takes the offer that's maybe coming up soon about going back to their old station essentially as an IAM new hire and another does not and wants to wait until a JCBA to have their full seniority in the integration. That first guy will be home and when the JCBA is reached will regain his former seniority (More than likely in the next shift bid in that station) while the other guy will need to wait.

I didn't see any stipulations on new hires and have to agree that once he's a part of his or her perspective unions is entitled to the same fair treatment that any member should have.

My take would be that the AA furloughed would be offered those jobs along with newhires not after them. By the same example above, the person who waits may not get back at all. It's a risk he or she would take by hoping that there will be openings after JCBA talks.

 

[ograc]

It's refreshing to see this forum return to meaningful discussion among affected members and away from a campaign tool filled with agendas and personal attacks. Let's keep the discussion going. It provides insight from members that otherwise may not have been considered.

 

[DFWFSC]

Robbed because of your new CBA you are going to get all of AA metal in stations where you are currently staffed and that do not violate our CBA for station staffing (Goodbye sub contractors). What Black Magic doesn't understand is how many people that may affect to maintain and grow jobs on your side until we receive the JCBA.

 
Just heard AA renewed the vendor contracts for two more years at 5 stations and they all have US ramp there as well. 

 

[T5towbar]

I think $14 per hour is extremely low no matter what part of the US you live in but if we did think more in line with COLA's for certain respective geographical locations we would have a better chance at keeping more stations open in the future and not always fighting the company with them wanting to close them. What's going on over at UAL should be a lesson for all of us. In some markets the company and us just can't compete with subs paying no more than $12 per hour to their employees. The company does of course pay a higher rate above that $12 to the sub company and they also pay to not have total control over the work performed. The turnover rate is very high among those companies as well.

I don't like the idea of tiered cities but for many the alternative to be able to remain home may be worth the price to the individual and his family?

Hubs will always get the premium rate because they generate the most revenue to be able to afford the rate but let's be honest here. The "COL" for DFW and CLT bears no relation to the "COL" in say NYC or LAX.

http://www.costoflivingbystate.org/

 
Yeah.
We (sCO) used to have a COLA increase called "Market Rate Adjustment" for higher cost of living cities like the NYC Metro; BOS; PHL; PVD; DC area - most of the Northeast cities; MIA & SFO had their own rate as well. It was 1.00 per hour more.  That was "red circled" in the new contract.
 
It is no way you can match the vendor's prices. Some about 70% cheaper........ No way you can go lower. That is nuts.
The Hawaii islands was the exception, since everything is higher. So they voted in concessions. But it won't happen no place else. Some of the vendors are offering to honor your present pay for 90 days and then give you a 2.00 premium afterwards. What a joke!

 

[robbedagain]

DFW  can you enlighten us as to what the 5 cities are?  if possible  and when it takes effect

 

[psa8979]

AF Readers/Posters/Brothers/Sisters my bet is the IAM/TWU will agree in a LOA that openings will be awarded  to LAA displaced by SCOPE and have recall. LUS/LCC by bid to avoid a major issue/fight as we move forward with the ASSOCIATION . Rates of pay ,bidding, ect. should be current Agents Classification Seniority regardless of Airline/Union until SCBA and SI. SCOPE was # 1 issue in US/LCC CBA and was accomplished. Now moving forward with the  ASSOCIATION  it's ALL ! about SENIORITY . The ? is the details of the LOA and AAL/DP position on restaffing  Stations with IAMTWU FS Agents/Clerks and the costs $$$ . Fish On !

 

[DFWFSC]

DFW  can you enlighten us as to what the 5 cities are?  if possible  and when it takes effect

It's 5 stations where a new vendor is replacing the current vendor and the contract is for 2 years. Piedmont is the name of the vendor, but not sure if they will be doing all 5 cities. The only city I know for sure is MCI and a west coast one, maybe SEA or SAN...not sure. Eagle does quite a bit of AA ramp work, but a VP said they wont put AE in a city unless there is potential for picking up other airline work and he said UA has actually asked for AE in a few cities.

 

[robbedagain]

thanks dfw   it doesn't surprise me piedmont taking over   I think eventually theyre gonna be the ground services

 

[PHXConx]

Is PHX the only station where US does AA? Black magic our unions are going to ask for more when the jcba starts

AA work in phx was farmed out a long time ago to serviceair when their contract came up  LUS took it over.  technically its a contract.. because technically we are still two separate airlines... it didnt displace any american agents. and certainly when we have a jcba then obvioulsy any valid recalls will have to be honored...

 

[PHXConx]

It's 5 stations where a new vendor is replacing the current vendor and the contract is for 2 years. Piedmont is the name of the vendor, but not sure if they will be doing all 5 cities. The only city I know for sure is MCI and a west coast one, maybe SEA or SAN...not sure. Eagle does quite a bit of AA ramp work, but a VP said they wont put AE in a city unless there is potential for picking up other airline work and he said UA has actually asked for AE in a few cities.

Piedmont... wholly owned subsidiary of us airways lol  thats convenient 

 

[WeAAsles]

My take would be that the AA furloughed would be offered those jobs along with newhires not after them. By the same example above, the person who waits may not get back at all. It's a risk he or she would take by hoping that there will be openings after JCBA talks.

The offer would go to the displaced before any new hires. And on the rest of what you said basically yes unless it's a hub where the attrition and movement would be much higher.