2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[PHXConx]

Some people claim they always vote "No" on the first offer expecting to get something better then 2nd chance around... we saw how well that worked the last T.A. where we got less on a "Last, Best, Final Offer".

no kidding...  

 

[P. REZ]

You are so full of it, you realize that you would get eaten alive if you brought back what you guys already signed off on.  If you got just a couple things that you claimed you were fighting for, you would have brought back a TA.  But you didn't and me and you know this.  You put off for joint talks much of the things that the members wanted NOW.  You guys decided to move against increasing scope, and move against AMR immediate wages, and the NMB and AH were ecstatic and happy for the movement.  In doing so, you also screwed up any idea of a impasse or release, which is all but dead anyways as I told everyone it would be as we approached June.  Unfortunately, you and the others lied out your ass about that, and you in particular just lied about it a couple days ago claiming a release can still happen.  It can't and won't.  YOU MOVED!   Movement is the exact opposite of impasse.  You also lied to us about the 6 'sacred things' with your mythical line in the sand.  Tossing out 2 of them was a joke.  Now, placing a no-layoff clause to further accommodate Ole AH's scope giveback is another outright moronic thing.   Which is it going to be Pat?  I know the last round, you guys were trying to figure out if you would give AH the 12 flight day [98 flight week] just to get a wage bump, or you could take the other plan ole AH offered which was keep the current flight activity but give up Catering and Tower one day prior to ammendability.  That was the only hold up that I know of last week, which one did you cough up and why cough up anything at all?  

Tim,
 
Just admit you were being played by Wiki or whoever was giving you your info.LOL

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
Just admit you were being played by Wiki or whoever was giving you your info.LOL

pat
its time to move on. The dreadful ta passed. The members have spoken on the ta.

 

[P. REZ]

pat
its time to move on. The dreadful ta passed. The members have spoken on the ta.

Tim,
 
Right back at you, the members voted on their leaders too, time to move on.

 

[robbedagain]

job well done Rez n CB and the rest of the team.   Tim I believe this contract is a helluva of an upgrade when compared to 05 and 08.   And now the JCBA begins soon!

 

[WeAAsles]

pat
its time to move on. The dreadful ta passed. The members have spoken on the ta.

Oh NOW it's time to move on, lol. Tim how many members in ORD were you able to convince to vote no? I'm very curious?

Oh and 86% is not called passing Tim. It's called a BLOWOUT!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
Right back at you, the members voted on their leaders too, time to move on.

thats not true Pat. However, the intl, then the dol will decide, if necessary, if the members have spoken.

Kicking off candidates who the dol already said are bona fide was cowardly. Even if a candidate gets kicked off, such determinations are to be made at nominations, not right before the election. That alone is a rerun, hopefully prior to january. Never mind the other 21 violations.

So, no, the members did not get a chance to have a fair election. Will u apologize for that transgression if the dol agrees with me? Yes or no?

 

[Tim Nelson]

job well done Rez n CB and the rest of the team.   Tim I believe this contract is a helluva of an upgrade when compared to 05 and 08.   And now the JCBA begins soon!

i respect your opinion robbed but it just pushed everything to joint talks but stripped scope for several stations that previously had it. Joint talks will be empty since the company got everything they wanted with all the big items in this cost negative contract.

 

[robbedagain]

what stations were stripped Tim

 

[WeAAsles]

i respect your opinion robbed but it just pushed everything to joint talks but stripped scope for several stations that previously had it. Joint talks will be empty since the company got everything they wanted with all the big items in this cost negative contract.

I guess 86% of the membership is just not as smart as you are huh? The 7 Stations per week methodology sounds like a fair trade for the cross utilization since it guarantees people have jobs and keep jobs in the stations they want to be in.

Would you have preferred people be out of work Tim so we have more leverage in Joint talks? I guess that is not too important to you I have to surmise?

Tim how many people were you able to get to vote no with you in ORD?

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim can you explain to any followers you might have left how an immediate $320.00 per month, $400.00 per month by September and at least $720.00 per month looking at current industry wages by Sep 2017 for topped out members if we don't get a JCBA is COST NEGATIVE to the company?

I really want to see this mathematical equation??????? 

 

[IAM Member Here]

I guess 86% of the membership is just not as smart as you are huh? The 7 Stations per week methodology sounds like a fair trade for the cross utilization since it guarantees people have jobs and keep jobs in the stations they want to be in.

Would you have preferred people be out of work Tim so we have more leverage in Joint talks? I guess that is not too important to you I have to surmise?

Tim how many people were you able to get to vote no with you in ORD?

It's not that.  The problem was compounded that the contract was not only cost negative but the alternative was to go into joint talks with $0 since the leadership strong armed the membership and refused to even do a strike vote.   Very few wanted to go into joint talks with $0 wage increase.   The reality of the 7 stations per week only affected 6 stations or less than 150 employees, and those stations should have been protected, but not at the cost negative cost of giving up work at an initial 12 stations, which affects a current number of around 1,000 employees.  I certainly can understand you and other TWU members loving this contract as it allows you to pick up our work.  This is the first contract in this industry, EVER, where a negotiation committee waived work, waived off fence agreements, and handed another union our work.  You have an agenda that is favorable to TWU, and I respect that, but don't tell me that you would vote yes for a contract where the TWU hands over your MIA work to us, without a qui pro quo.  The only reasoning that you can offer is that this will all be worked out in Joint talks, however, joint talks normally take 3-5 years.  Some folks count on overtime,  now the company has a way in which it can take advantage of the new synergies that the negotiation team gave it with cross utilization.  Never mind the new cost structure that the company will be able to incorporate in a few years with the health care.   And all other items pushed to "Next time".   Just unacceptable to me given the leverage of section 6.    But as Jimmy Neutron said, our members would have given even more away and voted yes on even a .50 cent pay raise.  Not sure if it was 86% but if so then that suggest to the company that it gave too much, and that the members were ecstatic.  Maybe the company will even use that number in joint talks and ask for cutbacks.

 

[IAM Member Here]

Tim can you explain to any followers you might have left how an immediate $320.00 per month, $400.00 per month by September and at least $720.00 per month looking at current industry wages by Sep 2017 for topped out members if we don't get a JCBA is COST NEGATIVE to the company?

I really want to see this mathematical equation??????? 

The totality of the contract was cost negative for sure.  You can't break it down to one employee who is topped out working in JAX.   The big concessions was health care, and cross utilization.  The summation of those two items, while at the same time not addressing part time [40% of workforce] and keeping all other cost the same [minus a couple nickels for pension] was a power grab for management.  The synergies from the cross utilization will really help the company in a lot of big stations, including DCA for now.   As we move forward, LAA could even have job openings in CLT or PHL and hire in TWU members under the TWU contract.  There is nothing preventing LAA from hiring at any station, and then using those new hires as a vendor to do US AIRWAYS work.  Hopefully, the company is nice and looks the other way.
 
Tim would say the same thing

 

[IAM Member Here]

Answer me this,  what is keeping LAA from hiring in CLT under the LAA TWU agreement?  And using those new hires as vendors to vend out our work?

 

[700UW]

AA doesnt have its own ramp in CLT, hasnt in years, they were laid-off in the 2003 cuts.
 
You are grasping at straws.
 
Tim, just post under your own name.
 
There was no concessions give on healthcare.
 
So are you an actuary?
 
Post the numbers to show how it was concessionary.
 
They wouldnt be new hires, people have recall rights and people can transfer before AA would hire off the streets.
 
Keep grasping at straws, why dont you just go by the name Chicken Little.