2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

it was the negotiating committees fault... now its the presidents fault... hmmm covering all your bases huh timmy?
 
whats funny is you dont realize that its because of the health care law that the negotiating committee had to negotiate a way to protect the membership that the health care prices werent going to go up... that the increase was going to be the tax the government imposed due to the price of our current health care.  
 
that to be able to continue paying low prices and have three plans for the next four years..  there needed to be a way to negotiate the plans after the TA was passed or the company would have had to renegotiate the price of the plans higher now. through 2018.
 
that having this agreement in place, keeps our current prices low, that in the event of an excise tax being imposed by the government on the company, we would be able to negotiate the change in the plans THEN, not now, as many companies are doing.  
 
you would know this if you bothered to educate yourself on whats going with the health care law, thats why you would be a poor negotiator

please quote the part of this ta that backs up what u are saying. Kindly let us all know what negotiayion rights we have other than making suggestions for 90 days prior to explosion? I want you to educate me.

Maybe the negotiation committee should have actually negotiated something. You ever hear of health care caps? Go review the terrible iam united contract but at least they limit yearly increases on health care. Please show me anywhere in this ta that restricts our health care cost from going higher over the next 3 years? And please share with us the language that backs up your statement that our union will negotiate changes? The members want to know.

 

[PHXConx]

please quote the part of this ta that backs up what u are saying. Kindly let us all know what negotiayion rights we have other than making suggestions for 90 days prior to explosion? I want you to educate me.

Maybe the negotiation committee should have actually negotiated something. You ever hear of health care caps? Go review the terrible iam united contract but at least they limit yearly increases on health care. Please show me anywhere in this ta that restricts our health care cost from going higher over the next 3 years? And please share with us the language that backs up your statement that our union will negotiate changes? The members want to know.

i thought you said that the contract already had a cap  that was your argument this morning now it doesnt? here lets look at what you said again...
 
 

and how could the company carry out those plans, without that letter, since our health care has a cap.

 
 
 
please timmy make up your mind on what your argument against this is 
 
better yet have someone explain to you what your issue needs to be and regroup... 

 

[PHXConx]

timmy you dont seem to understand without that letter the company would have had no choice but to negotiate a new health plan, that would have today, not four years from now been in compliance with the ACA in 2018
 
that our rates today would have increased, actually it would have most likely kept the rates the same just increased our deductible... today. not 4 years from now... and only on the assumption that there will be an excise tax imposed.
 
 
do you not understand instead of keeping our rates for four more years. that if we went with no letter of agreement that that would have happened today?
 
if the NC said no to that letter you would have probably been saying that that was wrong and that we needed to have a letter in place to keep from paying higher rates/deductibles for 4 years..
 
 
you want to have it both ways, you argue now against something that you would undoubtedly have argued we should have had had the negotiating committee not put it in place now... would say why would we want to raise our rates today for something that might happen in four years...
 
it doesn't matter what the negotiating committee does you would argue the opposite...  
 
we know this because you refuse to put forth what you would do different because to make  stand on principle you would have to have principles in the first place 

 

[WeAAsles]

i thought you said that the contract already had a cap  that was your argument this morning now it doesnt? here lets look at what you said again...
 
 
 
 
 
 
please timmy make up your mind on what your argument against this is 
 
better yet have someone explain to you what your issue needs to be and regroup... 

He either doesn't have a clue, can't figure out how to have a clue, or does not want to have a clue?

How many ways and times it's going to be attempted to be explained to him before he either gets it or gives up, now on that I don't have a clue? :wacko:  

 

[WeAAsles]

This just crossed my mind. The people who are responding to and trying to explain the Medical letter to Tim on this forum are former and current elected officials who have dealt with multiple contract negotiations and interpretations of language. Aside from that these people have access to Lawyers who also have extreme expertise in writing and interpreting legal language and it's intended application. Those Lawyers probably assisted in the writing of the language and double checked that it was accurate before signing off on it.

Now who are the readers supposed to believe? All of these people who have dealt with and understand contract language or a guy who has been trying and failing to win an election for over 20 years?

Boggles the mind if anyone is unsure who to believe.

 

[psa8979]

Lay down your sword  Brother Tim your Crusade is over for now. The enemy is not the UNION or those Members who don't see your spiritual vision and share your devout passion for righteousness. Time to go fishing , reflect, and come back to fight another day.  AMEN ! Lets all pray for a Industry Leading CBA with the IAMTWU ASSOCIATION and new joint NC . 

 

[P. REZ]

Tim,

Wow, I go camping for a day and come back to pages of your BS rants and on top of that there were many good posts from WeAAsles, NYer, CB, PHXConx and others regarding the Health Care letter but you seem to refuse to educate yourself.

Do all of us a favor and read up on the ACA. We have great insurance and this letter addresses something we can't ignore. The pilots, flight attendants, maintenance and fleet all signed this letter. Compare this contract to the current American and the old United and Continental contracts for fleet and what you will find is this ta is better than all 3. And this for a stand alone US fleet group who is half the size of the three. Then, add in that we will be back in for joint talks in the fall to get the best contract in the industry with help from our TWU Brothers and Sisters.

P. Rez

 

[roabilly]

This just crossed my mind. The people who are responding to and trying to explain the Medical letter to Tim on this forum are former and current elected officials who have dealt with multiple contract negotiations and interpretations of language. Aside from that these people have access to Lawyers who also have extreme expertise in writing and interpreting legal language and it's intended application. Those Lawyers probably assisted in the writing of the language and double checked that it was accurate before signing off on it.

Now who are the readers supposed to believe? All of these people who have dealt with and understand contract language or a guy who has been trying and failing to win an election for over 20 years?

Boggles the mind if anyone is unsure who to believe.

The only person that actually believes Nelson’s rhetoric is Nelson, and maybe several faux AF digital supporters...
 
Incidentally, Nelson is already speaking of forcing a re-election since he presumably lost the last one by a slim margin.
 
I want every single member to realize that this will be the second time in the past two years that he has protested elections he lost, and each time he does this, it has cost YOU money! The Union has to extend resources to investigate, and answer inquiries from the Government Agencies. Ultimately, you pay for it all with your dues, and federal taxes...
 
Make sure you thank Mr. Nelson for his thoughtfulness! 

 

[Tim Nelson]

He either doesn't have a clue, can't figure out how to have a clue, or does not want to have a clue?
How many ways and times it's going to be attempted to be explained to him before he either gets it or gives up, now on that I don't have a clue? :wacko:

i dont recognize opinions, i want you to show me in ghe ta. Thanks in advance. I really liked your idea of a comic book and i think you should send it to management along with a note to put a cap on our health care cost like normal unions have. I also think you should call AH and let him know that he doesnt need to worry about obama care taxes because you say so!

Keep working on your beach body because its going to be a long time before a joint contract gets signed. With the cross utilization, ole AH isnt going to have to move to quick. When he finally does sign a new sweetheart, i think you may be lucky enuf to avoid the iampf as sCo employees have.

 

[roabilly]

Lay down your sword  Brother Tim your Crusade is over for now. The enemy is not the UNION or those Members who don't see your spiritual vision and share your devout passion for righteousness. Time to go fishing , reflect, and come back to fight another day.  AMEN ! Lets all pray for a Industry Leading CBA with the IAMTWU ASSOCIATION and new joint NC . 

Knights-Templar-4.jpg

Nelson will NEVER lay down his sword voluntarily...
 
However, it has been taken from him numerous times in the elections process—hence he is now relegated to a plastic toy sword!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Lay down your sword  Brother Tim your Crusade is over for now. The enemy is not the UNION or those Members who don't see your spiritual vision and share your devout passion for righteousness. Time to go fishing , reflect, and come back to fight another day.  AMEN ! Lets all pray for a Industry Leading CBA with the IAMTWU ASSOCIATION and new joint NC . 

Knights-Templar-4.jpg

when is the next salmon run? In chicago not much fishing brother unless you have a good size boat and can afford a boat slip.
I usually go out to wyoming or idaho though.

 

[psa8979]

Season is open in CA. Fish On !

 

[bob@las-AA]

Got my last salmon 4 miles out on Lake Ontario, many moons ago. Best fishing trip ever, and the fish was deeeeelish!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Got my last salmon 4 miles out on Lake Ontario, many moons ago. Best fishing trip ever, and the fish was deeeeelish!

lake ontario, now thats a productive lake. Used to fish around watertown but over in those eastern parts walleye was the main attraction.
with the new pay raise you might just see those shiny hitches back on the rears of vehicles again.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
Wow, I go camping for a day and come back to pages of your BS rants and on top of that there were many good posts from WeAAsles, NYer, CB, PHXConx and others regarding the Health Care letter but you seem to refuse to educate yourself.
Do all of us a favor and read up on the ACA. We have great insurance and this letter addresses something we can't ignore. The pilots, flight attendants, maintenance and fleet all signed this letter. Compare this contract to the current American and the old United and Continental contracts for fleet and what you will find is this ta is better than all 3. And this for a stand alone US fleet group who is half the size of the three. Then, add in that we will be back in for joint talks in the fall to get the best contract in the industry with help from our TWU Brothers and Sisters.
P. Rez

im not imputing anything assumed from joint talks in this ta. We do have good health care but the problem is that you guys shouldnt have walked away without getting a cap on yearly increases to prevent clear and future risk to our members. United negotiated a cap...so should you. The reality is that the health care letter protects the cost risk of management and the union cant even have any say other making some suggestions over 90 days. Without a cap or any stabilizing guidance you cant even tell me how much my deductible will be and you cant even guarantee that all the current plans wont be abolished. I keep asking for folks to point to the letter and show me what rights our union has other than making the initial suggestions over 90 days but all i get is opinion.

Please show me in that letter where the company has to agree with the union over anything in that letter, once this ta gets passed.