Wn Phl Fares -merged topics

[spanky]

The odds of me flying the Turd Brown Bird from PHL to anyplace is as likely as it is for a Libertarian to be elected President.

Ouch! Turd Brown? That would be Dersert Gold, thank you. Furthermore, the fleet is being redone in an attractive Canyon Blue.

Sorry your #1 Carrier is going through some rough times, Your Excellency. I'd hate for anyone from the World's Premier Carrier to ever have to suffer through a flight in one of our turd brown planes with our lower than life trailor trash customers and worthless employees. Only the red carpet for people of your stature and nobility.

Thank God WN is such a piece of crap Airline. You don't have to worry about them cutting into your market share. After all, if WN isn't good enough for you to fly on, why would be good enough for your customers?

Rome was destroyed from within. Don't point the finger at the Greeks.

 

[wwtraveler99]

Do low-fare carriers really have the best fares?
Discount carriers have won legions of fans by touting their savings, but they may not actually always have the lowest fares. In his Fare Guy column in The Charlotte Observer (free registration), Ted Reed cites a study by consulting firm Unisys R2A that shows discount king Southwest regularly charges more than US Airways in some markets. The report covers fares in markets where both airlines offer non-stop or one-stop service. In short-haul markets (up to about 700 miles), "Southwest is generally able to charge slightly higher average fares," it says. For instance, Las Vegas-Orlando standard fare with no Saturday-night stay requirement was $260 on US Airways and $318 on Southwest. JetBlue spokesman Todd Burke said that low-fare airlines such as JetBlue are initially able to attract customers with low fares and other amenities, but are able to keep them because of good customer service. "Even if in a particular circumstance (our fares) are higher, people fly with us because we treat them like human beings," he said. Posted 7:30 a.m. ET
Link

Southwest higher "average" fares may be because more passengers pay full fare. If Southwest had a walk-up, fully refundable fare of say $200.00 roundtrip from BWI-MDW but USAirways walk up was $500.00 peolple might prefer to book Southwest. Then lets say USAirways had an advance purchase ticket of 175.00. This is close enough to Southwest walk up fare, but without restrictions some may still book Southwest. This would allow Southwest a bit more of an average fare over USAirways.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Spanky,

I think Piney & KC are having a little tiff right now and Piney gets a little carried away with his adjectives when he's in "take this" mode (sorry Bob, but you do). Maybe they'll "kiss & make up" a little later. Piney's a customer, by the way.

As far as paint schemes are concerned, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. While I'm not crazy about WN colors, the old Allegheny colors didn't do anything for me either. I suspect 99.76895% of the passengers could care less.

Jim

 

[v1rotate]

It might be turd brown...baby puke orange...or even canyon blue. Either way, as a pilot, when ATC (air traffic control) says "traffic is a Southwest 737 at your 10 oclock and 10 miles", it ain't hard to spot. There are not many things in the sky that are that color. From a pilots standpoint...trust me this is a good thing. You can actually see it!!!!! Try and spot United in the sky...IT CAN'T be done.

Knock the SW color all you want...I think it rocks!!!

V1 B)

 

[KCFlyer]

Hold up a second -- many Southwest fares require round-trip travel. Using HOU-DAL as an example, only three of the five fare bases allow for one-way travel.

One thing that is nice about the Southwest web site is that it will tell you the fare on a one-way basis even if it requires round trip travel. It looks like two one way fares regardless of restrictions.

Except for Expedia.com, on other web sites it ranges from difficult to impossible to see what the fare is in each direction, unless you're willing to wait for your airline ticket receipt and have the capability to deciper the fare calculation line.

One major difference here JS...since both segments are priced "one way", if a change is made, the difference between that "one way" fare is affected. For example...If you have to change plans in the middle of your trip, the only difference you'll pay is between the one way fare you paid and the going rate. Which....ain't that much. The other fare structures start with a $100 change fee (in many cases, that's more than the one way difference from the lowest to full fare on SWA), and then it's adjusted for whatever the "qualifying" fare is. It's the same with the other LCC airines out there (although some do charge the "penalty). So while some purchases require round trip purchases - each segment is priced one way. And adjusted accordingly.

 

[KCFlyer]

Bob...I fully understand your being upset with posts that seem to paint SWA as the second coming of Christ. They bother me too. But the problem I have with you and other "cockroaches" is the stance of seemingly caring for the employees, who have given up quite a bit to be able to serve you, and the protection of your prized FF status. I fail to understand why an airline should be the one to provide employee perks, just because a companies employees fly them on a regular basis. My point is - at some point, the customer is going to have to feel a little pain as well. You should welcome those turd brown planes in PHL because that means that you no longer have to feel the "pain" of paying a higher airfare on many routes. But the employees you value so much have felt an awful lot of pain...just read these boards...and in order to compete, they are going to be asked to feel even more pain. At what point should the customer accept that times, they are a changin, and accept a little bit of the pain themselves?

My dad travelled for a living when I was a kid. Except he drove everywhere. He worked the entire state of Florida...leaving Monday and working clients in South Florida, returning Friday. He did the same thing the next week for North Florida. He put close to 100K miles on his car per year. He spendt every weekday of his life in his car, trading cars every year, yet Chrysler never gave him free service, or an upgrade from a Newport to an Imperial simply because he used their product every day of his life. Why is an airline any different? I mean...the auto industry is also competitive.

And a Wall Street Journal article last week cited FF programs as costing the airlines $25 billion in lost revenues. Even if they've inflated that number by using full fare prices, even if it's 20 times overstated that's still 1.2 billion in lost revenues caused by "perk providing". I would venture to say the the big six could welcome an additional 203 million in revenues.

SO please, explain to me why it's the airlines job to provide you, the guy who accepted a position with XYZ company that required frequent travel, with free upgrades and trips. Yes - it's a competitive industry...I'll bet your industry has it's fair share of competition....does your company provide the purchasing agent at a client site with free product because he bought more product that another client.

And here's a glimpse of the future for you if you're not willing to feel a little pain. I flew Delta into DFW yesterday. Went to check in at the counter because I was travelling with my 10 year old and while we had assigned seats, mine was in row 12 and hers was in row 7. What greeted me at the counter was a kiosk. No opportunity to even ask if we could be seated together. When you checked in, the only job of the "customer service agent" was to get the baggage tag, put it on the bags, and then tell ME to carry the bags over somewhere else to get them sent thru security and to the plane. Self serve. You know, I'd be willing to give up my skymiles account for the opportunity to deal with a real, live human being that wasn't working for the TSA.

 

[TomBascom]

And a Wall Street Journal article last week cited FF programs as costing the airlines $25 billion in lost revenues. Even if they've inflated that number by using full fare prices, even if it's 20 times overstated that's still 1.2 billion in lost revenues caused by "perk providing". I would venture to say the the big six could welcome an additional 203 million in revenues.

Like I said before that's a load of crap.

The airlines got X billion dollars in pre-paid travel revenue. We paid for those "free trips" and "perks" when we bought our tickets or used our credit cards or whatever. US Airways delivers approximately 1/6th of those earned benefits annually. The other legacy carriers are probably similar -- maybe slower because they aren't having a "run" on the bank.

Sounds to me like the airlines have found an excellent source of cheap borrowing.

 

[KCFlyer]

And a Wall Street Journal article last week cited FF programs as costing the airlines $25 billion in lost revenues. Even if they've inflated that number by using full fare prices, even if it's 20 times overstated that's still 1.2 billion in lost revenues caused by "perk providing". I would venture to say the the big six could welcome an additional 203 million in revenues.

Like I said before that's a load of crap.

The airlines got X billion dollars in pre-paid travel revenue. We paid for those "free trips" and "perks" when we bought our tickets or used our credit cards or whatever. US Airways delivers approximately 1/6th of those earned benefits annually. The other legacy carriers are probably similar -- maybe slower because they aren't having a "run" on the bank.

Sounds to me like the airlines have found an excellent source of cheap borrowing.

Tom...and as I mentioned - if those numbers were overstated by 20 times (a $20 cost being listed as $400) it would still amount to an additional $203 million dollars for each of the big 6 carriers. That's a chunk of change.

 

[TomBascom]

Come on Bob! SWA may not be the end all and be all of airlines but they aren't that bad. The cattle call is hardly distinguishable from the "preferred crush" and "check-in required" is basically a sentence to an assigned middle seat.

They do do a lot of things right and US would do well to pay attention to what it is that they really do well -- not the mythology and misdirection that they are so good at fostering. Take the good, leave behind the bad and emphasize the positive differences that US has to offer. But don't try to be just like them!

You can't do that if you're rhetoric blinds you to the fact that they do, in fact, do a lot of things right.

 

[TomBascom]

And a Wall Street Journal article last week cited FF programs as costing the airlines $25 billion in lost revenues. Even if they've inflated that number by using full fare prices, even if it's 20 times overstated that's still 1.2 billion in lost revenues caused by "perk providing". I would venture to say the the big six could welcome an additional 203 million in revenues.

Like I said before that's a load of crap.

The airlines got X billion dollars in pre-paid travel revenue. We paid for those "free trips" and "perks" when we bought our tickets or used our credit cards or whatever. US Airways delivers approximately 1/6th of those earned benefits annually. The other legacy carriers are probably similar -- maybe slower because they aren't having a "run" on the bank.

Sounds to me like the airlines have found an excellent source of cheap borrowing.

Tom...and as I mentioned - if those numbers were overstated by 20 times (a $20 cost being listed as $400) it would still amount to an additional $203 million dollars for each of the big 6 carriers. That's a chunk of change.

Like I said -- overstated or understated -- it's a chunk of change that they have collected in advance. Those "perks" are paid for just as surely as the sun rises in the morning.

In any event I'll bet you a beer that your prediction of "customer concessions" never happens. That's even more suicidal than selling off assets.

 

[KCFlyer]

In any event I'll bet you a beer that your prediction of "customer concessions" never happens. That's even more suicidal than selling off assets.

We shall see. Before long, a beaten employee of an airline is going to say "screw this" and leave. Oh...they'll be replaced by a bunch of young greenhorns (or impersonal kiosks) that will cause the level of expected service to drop. Those greenhorn's will be making starting wages....nothing in the well to cut. So....where does the airline turn next? If you're ever in KC, let me know...I'll buy you the beer and we can discuss in detail.

 

[700UW]

Unless your obese

 

[TomBascom]

Unless your obese

In my own personal SWA customer surveys more of their customers like that policy than not... B)

It may not be PC to say so but one seat isn't big enough for some people and if you're big enough to own your own personal seatbelt extender then you ought to a ) know you have a problem and b ) be prepared to pay the costs. And if it's an unavoidable medical condition rather than a "lifestyle choice" talk to your insurer about the costs.

 

[KCFlyer]

In my own personal SWA customer surveys more of their customers like that policy than not... B)

It may not be PC to say so but one seat isn't big enough for some people and if you're big enough to own your own personal seatbelt extender then you ought to a ) know you have a problem and b ) be prepared to pay the costs. And if it's an unavoidable medical condition rather than a "lifestyle choice" talk to your insurer about the costs.

Soutwest proactively addresses that issue. Most of the other airlines leave it up to a fellow passenger to complain before taking any action. So if your squached...speak up. You'll look like an insensitive boor when you do, but at least when the big guy gets home he can gripe about how this "a-hole on the plane complained about me" and not how the airline asked him to get off the plane and take a later flightm or asked him to buy a second seat on a later flight to get him home.

 

[JS]

SWA SHOULD be copied in many many ways. I just have never been able to find a fare or a travel time that worked for me. And I look quarterly at least.

Schedule yourself to visit Midland and El Paso, TX. Southwest is guaranteed to be cheaper and more convenient to fly MAF-ELP than any other carrier, even at full fare.