WN Mechanics seek mediation

[B737 driver]

Please refer to the link below which points to update #57

http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/...le.cfm&HomeID=657858&page=Southwest20Airlines

Please note the final section:

Pending Litigation, AIR 21 Complaints & Grievances

• Company proposes that the Brake Rider and bad faith bargaining lawsuits be withdrawn;
• Company proposes that individual mechanics withdraw the pending AIR 21 complaints. The Company specifically referenced that our terminated brother, (Redacted) withdraw his pending AIR 21 complaint as a condition of this proposal. We see this as direct retaliation against our brothers that have exercised their rights under federal law to pursue these claims.
• Company proposes withdrawal of a number of grievances, including outsourcing of our C-checks, mandatory overtime, and others.

I would like to point out that these type of deals are made to settle contracts ALL THE TIME.
You sir, are getting all worked up over nothing.
Your comment comes to mind, "Shows his ignorance of collective bargaining".

Hopefully the guys get their jobs back, but none of this will hold up negotiations. The two individuals from AMFA 11, that is a separate lawsuit between them and the company !

 

[Go Figure]

Please refer to the link below which points to update #57

http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/...le.cfm&HomeID=657858&page=Southwest20Airlines

Please note the final section:

Pending Litigation, AIR 21 Complaints & Grievances

• Company proposes that the Brake Rider and bad faith bargaining lawsuits be withdrawn;
• Company proposes that individual mechanics withdraw the pending AIR 21 complaints. The Company specifically referenced that our terminated brother, (Redacted) withdraw his pending AIR 21 complaint as a condition of this proposal. We see this as direct retaliation against our brothers that have exercised their rights under federal law to pursue these claims.
• Company proposes withdrawal of a number of grievances, including outsourcing of our C-checks, mandatory overtime, and others.

I would like to point out that these type of deals are made to settle contracts ALL THE TIME.
You sir, are getting all worked up over nothing.

Edited: I'll be nice.

Ok. Tell me how works out in pending litigation. I will wait. I am patient man on outside looking. Once again , I repeat. Nothing will be concluded til lawsuits are settled/litigated. If u think a T/A will come out with this open I would be amazed. Never happen in industry. If SWA prevailed the implications to Amfa there toast.

 

[B737 driver]

Ok. Tell me how works out in pending litigation. I will wait. I am patient man on outside looking. Once again , I repeat. Nothing will be concluded til lawsuits are settled/litigated. If u think a T/A will come out with this open I would be amazed. Never happen in industry. If SWA prevailed the implications to Amfa there toast.

I think the real question is can AMFA survive here long term, if you remember our negotiating committee told us back in 2012 to expect this to take three years, and the company said trust us with the Airtran integration ,work with us on this and we will give you a contract, so we gave our Trump card away, then we changed negotiating committee team, the company still has the same attitude they are going to pay what they are going to pay! A lot of people are apathetic, then it appears we are trying to trade scope for economics, aren't we becoming why we kicked the Teamsters out, and yes I know we control our union, so please explain to me what happened ?

 

[swamt]

Perhaps it was arbitrating things that we saw as violations of the contract, maybe its just tactics to get the cheapest deal past us. I just hope our guys don't take it personal, but I know some do.

I think it was a lot of things as a group that triggered it. I too hope nobody takes this stuff personal, when they do you end up with actions like we just saw between a cleaner sup and an insp. Gotta keep the personal feelings out of it and remain calm and professional at all times.

Hopefully the guys get their jobs back, but none of this will hold up negotiations. The two individuals from AMFA 11, that is a separate lawsuit between them and the company !

Correct. It is between them and the company not the membership/them/ and the co. I believe it is against the law to ask us as a membership to vote out another persons law suits. Extremely unprofessional ask(s) from the company in WN's posted contract update #57.

I think the real question is can AMFA survive here long term, if you remember our negotiating committee told us back in 2012 to expect this to take three years, and the company said trust us with the Airtran integration ,work with us on this and we will give you a contract, so we gave our Trump card away, then we changed negotiating committee team, the company still has the same attitude they are going to pay what they are going to pay! A lot of people are apathetic, then it appears we are trying to trade scope for economics, aren't we becoming why we kicked the Teamsters out, and yes I know we control our union, so please explain to me what happened ?

No we are not becoming why we fired the teamsters. Do you really know why the teamsters were fired in 2 weeks? By your question above it seems you do not. The teamsters are currently still doing one of the reasons why we fired them and are yet again in court for their continued actions in the chefs fiasco. But not the only reason, there are many. One biggie was the deals they made during contract nego's in private hotel rooms and not at the table with all negotiators present, hence the "behind closed doors deals" we have seen in the past.

 

[B737 driver]

I think it was a lot of things as a group that triggered it. I too hope nobody takes this stuff personal, when they do you end up with actions like we just saw between a cleaner sup and an insp. Gotta keep the personal feelings out of it and remain calm and professional at all times.


Correct. It is between them and the company not the membership/them/ and the co. I believe it is against the law to ask us as a membership to vote out another persons law suits. Extremely unprofessional ask(s) from the company in WN's posted contract update #57.


No we are not becoming why we fired the teamsters. Do you really know why the teamsters were fired in 2 weeks? By your question above it seems you do not. The teamsters are currently still doing one of the reasons why we fired them and are yet again in court for their continued actions in the chefs fiasco. But not the only reason, there are many. One biggie was the deals they made during contract nego's in private hotel rooms and not at the table with all negotiators present, hence the "behind closed doors deals" we have seen in the past.

Yes I know why we got rid of them, just seems we are starting to drift that way

 

[WNMECH]

Yes I know why we got rid of them, just seems we are starting to drift that way

No I don't think you do, and no we aren't drifting that way. Not even close.
There are no more back room deals, we have full transparency over the negotiation process.
We now control every aspect of our union from national director to shop rep and in-between.
Every single one of them can be removed from office easily by us, the membership.
We enjoy real transparency and control how every dollar of our money is spent because we have complete control over the elected leaders in charge.

Please refer to the link below to our first update to refresh how long the company said this would last:

http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/...le.cfm&HomeID=255358&page=Southwest20Airlines

They then went into stall mode on ALL major unions while seeking concessions from each one.
No union here was able to stop that. NONE. Should all of them change unions because of company tactics?
I don't think so. That's just the kind of divide and conquer thing they would like.

 

[B737 driver]

No I don't think you do, and no we aren't drifting that way. Not even close.
There are no more back room deals, we have full transparency over the negotiation process.
We now control every aspect of our union from national director to shop rep and in-between.
Every single one of them can be removed from office easily by us, the membership.
We enjoy real transparency and control how every dollar of our money is spent because we have complete control over the elected leaders in charge.

Please refer to the link below to our first update to refresh how long the company said this would last:

http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/...le.cfm&HomeID=255358&page=Southwest20Airlines

They then went into stall mode on ALL major unions while seeking concessions from each one.
No union here was able to stop that. NONE. Should all of them change unions because of company tactics?
I don't think so. That's just the kind of divide and conquer thing they would like.

No I don't think you do, and no we aren't drifting that way. Not even close.
There are no more back room deals, we have full transparency over the negotiation process.
We now control every aspect of our union from national director to shop rep and in-between.
Every single one of them can be removed from office easily by us, the membership.
We enjoy real transparency and control how every dollar of our money is spent because we have complete control over the elected leaders in charge.

Please refer to the link below to our first update to refresh how long the company said this would last:

http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/...le.cfm&HomeID=255358&page=Southwest20Airlines

They then went into stall mode on ALL major unions while seeking concessions from each one.
No union here was able to stop that. NONE. Should all of them change unions because of company tactics?
I don't think so. That's just the kind of divide and conquer thing they would like.

The problem is it's just the president of the United States, when the economy is good everyone loves him, when it goes South he gets blamed, and we can brag how we control everything , but if you get into year six and we can not produce a T/ A people and human nature will start to question a union effectiveness, and no don't give the store away, and yes I know you look around the industry it is the same situation !

 

[I'll have another]

No I don't think you do, and no we aren't drifting that way. Not even close.
There are no more back room deals, we have full transparency over the negotiation process.
We now control every aspect of our union from national director to shop rep and in-between.
Every single one of them can be removed from office easily by us, the membership.
We enjoy real transparency and control how every dollar of our money is spent because we have complete control over the elected leaders in charge.

Please refer to the link below to our first update to refresh how long the company said this would last:

http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/...le.cfm&HomeID=255358&page=Southwest20Airlines

They then went into stall mode on ALL major unions while seeking concessions from each one.
No union here was able to stop that. NONE. Should all of them change unions because of company tactics?
I don't think so. That's just the kind of divide and conquer thing they would like.

Sounds good, but you know the sad state unionism is in this country. Most don't even vote. Autonomous, democratic, transparent, etc... Not many care. The bottom line is you have the leverage or you don't. And if you don't, how do you get it? If we take action we get sued. I've heard many times over the past couple years we should have stayed teamsters or the teamsters have more power. All I know that if the TA is a dud, Amfa is in trouble of getting the boot. Recall, control of dues, backroom deals is not going to make up for a bad TA. If we have to swallow a sh$t sandwich I believe amfa is going to pay the piper. Most people want good results and they don't want to risk anything to get. Except maybe hold a sign and chant for a couple hours. Look at the pushback I took for just bringing up a strike authorization vote on this thread.

 

[B737 driver]

Sounds good, but you know the sad state unionism is in this country. Most don't even vote. Autonomous, democratic, transparent, etc... Not many care. The bottom line is you have the leverage or you don't. And if you don't, how do you get it? If we take action we get sued. I've heard many times over the past couple years we should have stayed teamsters or the teamsters have more power. All I know that if the TA is a dud, Amfa is in trouble of getting the boot. Recall, control of dues, backroom deals is not going to make up for a bad TA. If we have to swallow a sh$t sandwich I believe amfa is going to pay the piper. Most people want good results and they don't want to risk anything to get. Except maybe hold a sign and chant for a couple hours. Look at the pushback I took for just bringing up a strike authorization vote on this thread.

I don't think it will be a turd, but there will be some work rule changes, and you are right about voting the last union election we had about 25%, vote, as far as power don't think we ever really had it, we aren't pilots, but I have had a lot worse jobs. We pay our money and basically what you have is a business AMFA, being your agent to get you a pay scale and work rules, and will that be good enough only time will tell !

 

[WNMECH]

I don't think it will be a turd, but there will be some work rule changes, and you are right about voting the last union election we had about 25%, vote, as far as power don't think we ever really had it, we aren't pilots, but I have had a lot worse jobs. We pay our money and basically what you have is a business AMFA, being your agent to get you a pay scale and work rules, and will that be good enough only time will tell !

You are wrong about AMFA only getting us a payscale and work rules. That was how the IBT was.
We have had to defend our contract again and again in arbitrations because company actions.
The IBT would never use our dues to defend any of it and always settled at our expense. We now make those decisions and our money is only spent how we see fit. I guess you don't recall local 19 in trusteeship, dues increase without listening to us and our dues going to IBT trucker pensions. I remember during the AMFA card drive, the IBT bringing in truckers to talk us out of it. Those truckers were so shocked to find out we didn't get the pensions they did and our dues only went to fill IBT coffers.

 

[B737 driver]

You are wrong about AMFA only getting us a payscale and work rules. That was how the IBT was.
We have had to defend our contract again and again in arbitrations because company actions.
The IBT would never use our dues to defend any of it and always settled at our expense. We now make those decisions and our money is only spent how we see fit. I guess you don't recall local 19 in trusteeship, dues increase without listening to us and our dues going to IBT trucker pensions. I remember during the AMFA card drive, the IBT bringing in truckers to talk us out of it. Those truckers were so shocked to find out we didn't get the pensions they did and our dues only went to fill IBT coffers.

THAT'S what you have yes I remember the trustees, lawsuits,are fine if you can win them, if you lose that's money you don't have ! But you will have to agree they are going to need to produce some results within the next 6 to 8 months, or saying how we control the union will not matter much, plus if they want to organize American Airlines, they better produce something, or those guys will not pay attention to you very long, because they won't see AMFA any different from the TWU or the IAM !

 

[I'll have another]

THAT'S what you have yes I remember the trustees, lawsuits,are fine if you can win them, if you lose that's money you don't have ! But you will have to agree they are going to need to produce some results within the next 6 to 8 months, or saying how we control the union will not matter much, plus if they want to organize American Airlines, they better produce something, or those guys will not pay attention to you very long, because they won't see AMFA any different from the TWU or the IAM !

Over half lost some senority with this AirTran deal, no pay raises in 5 years. I don't think Amfa can promote itself right now at another airline. I think if this contract doesn't work out at least ok, amfa would have a hard time staying at SWA let alone picking up another airline. Seniority and pay are what most value.

 

[B737 driver]

Over half lost some senority with this AirTran deal, no pay raises in 5 years. I don't think Amfa can promote itself right now at another airline. I think if this contract doesn't work out at least ok, amfa would have a hard time staying at SWA let alone picking up another airline. Seniority and pay are what most value.

Seniority determines everything what postion you can hold, what you are going to get paid, if you can get into a training class. As far as filing an lawsuit or an Arbitration, the decision needs to be based on the merit of the case and if can be won, just throwing money at a lawyer doesn't mean it is money wisely spent! I don't know why the company doesn't like AMFA, but it just seems it works with the other unions more expeditiously! I don't think they hate maintenance, I think alot has to do with the size airline we have become !

 

[I'll have another]

Seniority determines everything what postion you can hold, what you are going to get paid, if you can get into a training class. As far as filing an lawsuit or an Arbitration, the decision needs to be based on the merit of the case and if can be won, just throwing money at a lawyer doesn't mean it is money wisely spent! I don't know why the company doesn't like AMFA, but it just seems it works with the other unions more expeditiously! I don't think they hate maintenance, I think alot has to do with the size airline we have become !

Depending how the scope goes down, seniority could mean who gets laid off and who gets bumped first.

 

[B737 driver]

Over half lost some senority with this AirTran deal, no pay raises in 5 years. I don't think Amfa can promote itself right now at another airline. I think if this contract doesn't work out at least ok, amfa would have a hard time staying at SWA let alone picking up another airline. Seniority and pay are what most value.

I have to question if SWAPA got rid of Seham, because they did an audit and found improper billing practices and poor representation, why do we refuse to do an audit, or entertain shopping for another law firm, it sounds like someone in AMFA, or AMFA itself is getting a kickback; so tell me is that any different from what we complained about the Teamsters ?