WN Mechanics seek mediation

[I'll have another]

Didn't say the deal would not get done, just don't think the money will be as high as some people think, wish the negotiating committee luck, not an easy job !

What do you expect a full retro per person payout would be? 40,50,60?

 

[B737 driver]

What do you expect a full retro per person payout would be? 40,50,60?

Probably about $40k, but the company would probably want more scope change to get full retro, probably could get about $25k keeping what they moving on scope and willing to T/A, if you go with met/ arb or regular arbitration how successful do you think we could be getting our retro pay, by comparison with what SWA did for inflight, or will they just compare it with maintenance with other airlines, I just don't know ?

 

[swamt]

When asking the members what it would take in "full retro" for a T/A? Every single person I have talked to is a different answer and different amount. To be fair it would have to be an average % or amount based on each hour worked over each year for the past 5 years (so far). We are not being unfair what-so-ever. Yes some are being unrealistic with over inflated numbers that do not make sense (as we will always have those). We all know the company will call it a bonus instead of retro just as they did with the Pilots and this is fine with me as long as the amount does in fact equal "full retro" that we fully deserve just like the Pilots got. When those numbers are reached, and the "company" get's serious about moving on scope, (as I was told they started to move at last negotiations, so we now know they are willing to move) as well as an adjustment on economics it should get close to getting put out for a vote. The last increase in economics freaked the company out, which forced them to pull back their movements in scope off the table so I believe if both sides were willing to move towards the middle and the company revisits the moves they made on scope in last sessions, we could possibly get to vote on "something" not saying it would be good or bad just saying it should trigger a possible vote by the membership. If that is really what the company wants to happen then that is what needs to take place. Otherwise as WN stated, we will sit back and work under current contract where we are now.
I will add this again. The members who are close to retirement, waiting for new contract to retire, and some others on a mission with the company to rush this to a vote are the minority. The majority that are supporting our NC are willing to wait this out as most are NOT just waiting for new contract to retire and will have to live with it for many years in the future as will all of our NC. Thank God none of them are retiring in the next couple years or less. They too will have to live under this contract for some time in the future. What is driving the company bonkers is the fact that we won't just jump all over the $$$ and put blinders on about our scope, it just isn't going to happen, period.

 

[B737 driver]

When asking the members what it would take in "full retro" for a T/A? Every single person I have talked to is a different answer and different amount. To be fair it would have to be an average % or amount based on each hour worked over each year for the past 5 years (so far). We are not being unfair what-so-ever. Yes some are being unrealistic with over inflated numbers that do not make sense (as we will always have those). We all know the company will call it a bonus instead of retro just as they did with the Pilots and this is fine with me as long as the amount does in fact equal "full retro" that we fully deserve just like the Pilots got. When those numbers are reached, and the "company" get's serious about moving on scope, (as I was told they started to move at last negotiations, so we now know they are willing to move) as well as an adjustment on economics it should get close to getting put out for a vote. The last increase in economics freaked the company out, which forced them to pull back their movements in scope off the table so I believe if both sides were willing to move towards the middle and the company revisits the moves they made on scope in last sessions, we could possibly get to vote on "something" not saying it would be good or bad just saying it should trigger a possible vote by the membership. If that is really what the company wants to happen then that is what needs to take place. Otherwise as WN stated, we will sit back and work under current contract where we are now.
I will add this again. The members who are close to retirement, waiting for new contract to retire, and some others on a mission with the company to rush this to a vote are the minority. The majority that are supporting our NC are willing to wait this out as most are NOT just waiting for new contract to retire and will have to live with it for many years in the future as will all of our NC. Thank God none of them are retiring in the next couple years or less. They too will have to live under this contract for some time in the future. What is driving the company bonkers is the fact that we won't just jump all over the $$$ and put blinders on about our scope, it just isn't going to happen, period.

We will see at this point in reality I will be real surprised if there is a T/A this year, I am not really all that worried about it, but I do know where I am at, people just don't care anymore, and when that happens that is just what the company wants !

 

[WNMECH]

We will see at this point in reality I will be real surprised if there is a T/A this year, I am not really all that worried about it, but I do know where I am at, people just don't care anymore, and when that happens that is just what the company wants !

I agree with the first part, but where I am at people are just being patient with the process.
What the company REALLY wants is us infighting with our elected leaders and that isn't happening here in spite of the misleading videos and propaganda emails from the company.

 

[WNMECH]

When it comes to full retro, the amount is relative to the final negotiated pay scale.
First we negotiate fair pay increases for the past five years of record profits, and the next 5 years.
Then anyone can use simple math to see if the offered signing bonus equals the amount we have lost over the last 5 years of record profits (plus 401K and profitsharing increases just like the pilots got). Heck, they even paid dead pilots full retro. Everyone of us can do the math even though the company must think we cant. Did I mention that the last 5 years were record profits, billions of stock bybacks and bonuses to the top? The mechanic group has always worked above and beyond while delivering a safe and reliable product to the company while agreeing to outsourcing levels that no other major passenger airline has. This has given the company a historic level of competition in the industry and we deserve to share in the success we helped create.

 

[B737 driver]

When it comes to full retro, the amount is relative to the final negotiated pay scale.
First we negotiate fair pay increases for the past five years of record profits, and the next 5 years.
Then anyone can use simple math to see if the offered signing bonus equals the amount we have lost over the last 5 years of record profits (plus 401K and profitsharing increases just like the pilots got). Heck, they even paid dead pilots full retro. Everyone of us can do the math even though the company must think we cant.
Did I mention that the last 5 years were record profits, billions of stock bybacks and bonuses to the top.

I won't fight with the committee, for whatever reason they don't take AMFA seriously, now some people will say if we had the Teamsters back we would be done already, maybe so, maybe not, doesn't really matter! I hope they can survive long term, because I do like the openness, however when this is done we do need to do an audit on the law firm we have, and if we have been overpaying for their services, and if we have ; get the law firm that SWAPA has or another highly experienced labor law firm, with a proven track record !

 

[WNMECH]

I won't fight with the committee, for whatever reason they don't take AMFA seriously, now some people will say if we had the Teamsters back we would be done already, maybe so, maybe not, doesn't really matter! I hope they can survive long term, because I do like the openness, however when this is done we do need to do an audit on the law firm we have, and if we have been overpaying for their services, and if we have ; get the law firm that SWAPA has or another highly experienced labor law firm, with a proven track record !

If we were with the teamsters or another bloated industrial union, they would not be fighting for us as hard or spending money on lawsuits and arbitrations that we think need be defended. They only want our money. We control AMFA and every single penny of our dues money. Its not wasted on trucker pensions, massive pay and perks for national leaders (that cant be held to account by us) or on teamstercare type scams.
If anyone is unhappy with our AMFA leaders, how they direct our funds or negotiation tactics, there is a recall process that works and has been used before. With ANY other union that is impossible with a group as small as ours.

 

[WNMECH]

When it comes to full retro, the amount is relative to the final negotiated pay scale.
First we negotiate fair pay increases for the past five years of record profits, and the next 5 years.
Then anyone can use simple math to see if the offered signing bonus equals the amount we have lost over the last 5 years of record profits (plus 401K and profitsharing increases just like the pilots got). Heck, they even paid dead pilots full retro. Everyone of us can do the math even though the company must think we cant. Did I mention that the last 5 years were record profits, billions of stock bybacks and bonuses to the top? The mechanic group has always worked above and beyond while delivering a safe and reliable product to the company while agreeing to outsourcing levels that no other major passenger airline has. This has given the company a historic level of competition in the industry and we deserve to share in the success we helped create.

Now it seems they want us to fund a new contract by giving them even more flexibility on outsourcing plus other givebacks, when did the world turn upside down? Our group has always worked side by side with management during the lean years and 911 to keep our competitive advantage and that wont change now. I recognize that we are partners in this. The reality is that because of our small group and willingness to ensure we have that competitive advantage through outsourcing, even if we were paid a ridicules amount over what our committee has presented we would STILL enjoy a maintenance cost advantage over our peers. I don't blame them for trying to save money but the way it has been presented since the very beginning (and in the two years before we even started section 6) has been like holding deserved raises for ransom.
The bad blood started at the very beginning when we were told they have "must haves" and without them there will be NO raises. What a great way to start, its ridicules. Its like NWA telling the membership they want to layoff 53% of you but still expect over 50% to vote for it.

 

[B737 driver]

Now it seems they want us to fund a new contract by giving them even more flexibility on outsourcing plus other givebacks, when did the world turn upside down? Our group has always worked side by side with management during the lean years and 911 to keep our competitive advantage and wont change now. The reality is that because of our small group and willingness to ensure we have that competitive advantage through outsourcing, even if we were paid a ridicules amount over what our committee has presented we would STILL enjoy a maintenance cost advantage over our peers. I don't blame them for trying to save money but the way it has been presented since the very beginning (and in the two years before we even started section 6) has been like holding deserved raises for ransom.
The bad blood started at the very beginning when we were told they have "must haves" and without them there will be NO raises. What a great way to start, its ridicules. Its like NWA telling the membership they want to layoff 53% of you but still expect over 50% to vote for it.

I really think the bad blood started even though it was in our contact for the 4th line of C check, they thought we would entertain a contract extension and not persue the 4th line of maintenance, we didn't play ball and they have played hard ball ever since !

 

[WNMECH]

I really think the bad blood started even though it was in our contact for the 4th line of C check, they thought we would entertain a contract extension and not persue the 4th line of maintenance, we didn't play ball and they have played hard ball ever since !

Perhaps it was arbitrating things that we saw as violations of the contract, maybe its just tactics to get the cheapest deal past us. I just hope our guys don't take it personal, but I know some do.

 

[B737 driver]

When it comes to full retro, the amount is relative to the final negotiated pay scale.
First we negotiate fair pay increases for the past five years of record profits, and the next 5 years.
Then anyone can use simple math to see if the offered signing bonus equals the amount we have lost over the last 5 years of record profits (plus 401K and profitsharing increases just like the pilots got). Heck, they even paid dead pilots full retro. Everyone of us can do the math even though the company must think we cant. Did I mention that the last 5 years were record profits, billions of stock bybacks and bonuses to the top? The mechanic group has always worked above and beyond while delivering a safe and reliable product to the company while agreeing to outsourcing levels that no other major passenger airline has. This has given the company a historic level of competition in the industry and we deserve to share in the success we helped create.

When we didn't play ball on the 4th line, they played hard ball, they know no one is going to walk away from a six figure mechanics job, then they added insult to injury when they paid everything to inflight, we think we can get the same, they say no, and the membership gets more frustrated, which just weakens our position. This doesn't bust AMFA by a work action like Northwest, it just makes them look bad !

 

[Go Figure]

Perhaps it was arbitrating things that we saw as violations of the contract, maybe its just tactics to get the cheapest deal past us. I just hope our guys don't take it personal, but I know some do.

Perhaps it's the"Big White Elephant" standing in the middle of the room referred to as Federal lawsuits filed from both sides?? swamt says that has no bearing and is separate. Shows his ignorance of collective bargaining . No one from Pom Pom Amfa squad will address the issue. Legal strategy advice obviously and it put screeching halt to CBA conclusion. Until it is litigated just wasting mediators time. Surprised negotiations were not put on ice. May as well been. We shall see. Until that is addressed long bumpy road ahead for SWA tech and related for conclusion.

 

[Go Figure]

For your information during those "minor" negotiations we obtained industry leading wages and benefits.
Also, our AMFA negotiators and legal advisors, got inserted into our contract the very scope language protections that the company is so desperate to want removed now.

The reason SWA went to industry leading was they continued yearly raises while the rest of industry went in to concession survival mode/ bankruptcy . The rest of industry struggled to try to maintain waiting for better times/ consolidation. The industry has stabilized. Now SWA going thru first full blown section 6 and their strategy is getting beat on. Seham and his advisors laughing all the way to the bank. I would not give him 10 cents for an opinion on anything let alone follow his strategy. He has been disastrous to airline labor relations and his record and reputation show. Surprised he has survived this long. Go Figure!!!! Fool born every minute.!!

 

[WNMECH]

The reason SWA went to industry leading was they continued yearly raises while the rest of industry went in to concession survival mode/ bankruptcy . The rest of industry struggled to try to maintain waiting for better times/ consolidation. The industry has stabilized. Now SWA going thru first full blown section 6 and their strategy is getting beat on. Seham and his advisors laughing all the way to the bank. I would not give him 10 cents for an opinion on anything let alone follow his strategy. He has been disastrous to airline labor relations and his record and reputation show. Surprised he has survived this long. Go Figure!!!! Fool born every minute.!!

Please refer to the link below which points to update #57

http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/...le.cfm&HomeID=657858&page=Southwest20Airlines

Please note the final section:

Pending Litigation, AIR 21 Complaints & Grievances

• Company proposes that the Brake Rider and bad faith bargaining lawsuits be withdrawn;
• Company proposes that individual mechanics withdraw the pending AIR 21 complaints. The Company specifically referenced that our terminated brother, (Redacted) withdraw his pending AIR 21 complaint as a condition of this proposal. We see this as direct retaliation against our brothers that have exercised their rights under federal law to pursue these claims.
• Company proposes withdrawal of a number of grievances, including outsourcing of our C-checks, mandatory overtime, and others.

I would like to point out that these type of deals are made to settle contracts ALL THE TIME.
You sir, are getting all worked up over nothing.

Edited: I'll be nice.