WN Mechanics seek mediation

[I'll have another]

I go back to one of my original questions/ statements on this forum. What is the legal strategy from the Seham advisory group besides filing lawsuits and tieing up in Federal courts. Once again- this is the first full blown section 6 negotiations amfa is in with SWA. All other negotiations were extensions and minor loa with pay raises since early 2000 time frame. Outgunned and plan of attack is not working out so good. We shall see but long bumpy curvy road ahead for the SWA tech and related. There are going to be some disgruntled members on conclusion if it ever gets there. Going to be very interesting!!!!!!! Amfa power at its best. Attack and label what you want but you better look in the mirror for a dose of reality!!!!!

I agree. This boogie man isn't going away. Under Amfa over half the seniority list lost seniority with this AirTran deal, no pay raise in 5 years. Now if we get handed a turkey for a T/A, I don't think AMFA will survive at SWA. It's not looking good. This Seham law firm has been tied to AMFA for years. I really don't like that. Our pilots fired this law firm. They are not the only labor attorneys in this country. Why is AMFA tied to the hip with them?

 

[B737 driver]

I agree. This boogie man isn't going away. Under Amfa over half the seniority list lost seniority with this AirTran deal, no pay raise in 5 years. Now if we get handed a turkey for a T/A, I don't think AMFA will survive at SWA. It's not looking good. This Seham law firm has been tied to AMFA for years. I really don't like that. Our pilots fired this law firm. They are not the only labor attorneys in this country. Why is AMFA tied to the hip with them?

I agree. This boogie man isn't going away. Under Amfa over half the seniority list lost seniority with this AirTran deal, no pay raise in 5 years. Now if we get handed a turkey for a T/A, I don't think AMFA will survive at SWA. It's not looking good. This Seham law firm has been tied to AMFA for years. I really don't like that. Our pilots fired this law firm. They are not the only labor attorneys in this country. Why is AMFA tied to the hip with them?

The one Trump card AMFA had to play was the Airtran integration, and they trusted the company and didn't get a contract then, now that is gone, so we are where we are at . IF you look at the Alaska Airlines they got their contract done before the Virgin integration!

 

[Go Figure]

I agree. This boogie man isn't going away. Under Amfa over half the seniority list lost seniority with this AirTran deal, no pay raise in 5 years. Now if we get handed a turkey for a T/A, I don't think AMFA will survive at SWA. It's not looking good. This Seham law firm has been tied to AMFA for years. I really don't like that. Our pilots fired this law firm. They are not the only labor attorneys in this country. Why is AMFA tied to the hip with them?

Amfa is the cash cow for Seham organization. Figure it out!!!!!!!!

 

[B737 driver]

You could be right. Depends on the situation we are dealt with at the time. I'm sure AMFA will get no support from the other unions on the property. Our leadership knows that.

Sorry I called you a troll, the problem is most of the membership is just tired and apathetic, and frustrated and the company knows it.There will be a T/ A don't know how good it will be, but I am sure it will pass. If people are not happy with AMFA, I hope they don't want to get rid of them, before you get a contract, worse thing you could do, would just set us back years! Hopefully we get this stuff done!

 

[Go Figure]

Sorry I called you a troll, the problem is most of the membership is just tired and apathetic, and frustrated and the company knows it.There will be a T/ A don't know how good it will be, but I am sure it will pass. If people are not happy with AMFA, I hope they don't want to get rid of them, before you get a contract, worse thing you could do, would just set us back years! Hopefully we get this stuff done!

I have been putting in dose of reality but the Amfa Pom Pom cheerleading squad has only attacked and not addressed my statements. Company schill. Lil girl antics. Address the facts and be honest with the membership. Not popular but truth. Where does the membership stand with the Federal lawsuits??? Swamt says not issue!!! Wow. Putting his head in the sand and playing on too many other forums attacking other unions. I called him out a while back and he went underground!!! Calling him out again!! I do wish the hardworking SWA tech and related well and helps us all but there guidance and plan is disastrous playing with the big boys. We shall see!!!!????!!!!

 

[I'll have another]

Sorry I called you a troll, the problem is most of the membership is just tired and apathetic, and frustrated and the company knows it.There will be a T/ A don't know how good it will be, but I am sure it will pass. If people are not happy with AMFA, I hope they don't want to get rid of them, before you get a contract, worse thing you could do, would just set us back years! Hopefully we get this stuff done!

Not a problem. I had a good laugh over it. Hope you did too. Been in this racket for almost 40 years. You get thick skinned. It's a shame SWA has treated this group like crap. One thing to remember when this gets settled and I would assume a 5 year deal. The group will probably have to live with it for 10 years. Scope is everything. They gut it and youl'll see layoffs, bumping, blended workforce, and outsourcing galore. It won't be pretty.

 

[WNMECH]

I've already explained what a strike authorization vote is. It is not a strike or a strike vote. All it is, is giving the authority to the national director(Bret), if we were locked out only during self help to call a strike. In other words you lost your job anyhow. No other time is it legal to call a strike except during self help. The RLA doesn't allow any other time. This is not NWA. NWA was bankrupt, and was going to cut 50 percent of the mechanics and cut pay 35 percent , if you recall. They also had replacement workers(scabs) hired to bust the union. AMFA had no choice but to strike because they knew they were done. Get it now. So for AMFA to call a strike would be slim here at SWA. There is no rush to have a strike authorization vote. But it should start to be seriously considered. We have been at this for six years. Who knows what the companies true intentions are.

I know its been a while but please don't exaggerate.
We started negotiations on August 21, 2012. That was 4 years and 49 weeks ago, not 6 years.
also please refer to the link below to refresh yourself with the timeline and process.
Be aware that self help is step 12.
We are at step 4 and you could call med-arb step 4 1/2


http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/...le.cfm&HomeID=441995&page=Southwest20Airlines

 

[WNMECH]

I go back to one of my original questions/ statements on this forum. What is the legal strategy from the Seham advisory group besides filing lawsuits and tieing up in Federal courts. Once again- this is the first full blown section 6 negotiations amfa is in with SWA. All other negotiations were extensions and minor loa with pay raises since early 2000 time frame. Outgunned and plan of attack is not working out so good. We shall see but long bumpy curvy road ahead for the SWA tech and related. There are going to be some disgruntled members on conclusion if it ever gets there. Going to be very interesting!!!!!!! Amfa power at its best. Attack and label what you want but you better look in the mirror for a dose of reality!!!!!

For your information during those "minor" negotiations we obtained industry leading wages and benefits.
Also, our AMFA negotiators and legal advisors, got inserted into our contract the very scope language protections that the company is so desperate to want removed now.

 

[I'll have another]

I know its been a while but please don't exaggerate.
We started negotiations on August 21, 2012. That was 4 years and 49 weeks ago, not 6 years.
also please refer to the link below to refresh yourself with the timeline and process.
Be aware that self help is step 12.
We are at step 5 and you could call med-arb step 5 1/2


http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/...le.cfm&HomeID=441995&page=Southwest20Airlines

Scratch my 6 and make it 5. What's your thoughts on med-arb?

 

[WNMECH]

Scratch my 6 and make it 5. What's your thoughts on med-arb?

Looks to me like its just the company trying to avoid actual negotiating.

 

[B737 driver]

Not a problem. I had a good laugh over it. Hope you did too. Been in this racket for almost 40 years. You get thick skinned. It's a shame SWA has treated this group like crap. One thing to remember when this gets settled and I would assume a 5 year deal. The group will probably have to live with it for 10 years. Scope is everything. They gut it and youl'll see layoffs, bumping, blended workforce, and outsourcing galore. It won't be pretty.

I did I was a shop steward for 8 years when we were Teamsters, been in aviation since 1987! On a serious note if you look at our updates based on the information we have been provided by both sides, it appears AMFA was trying to bend on scope for economics, and realized they better get more money than they were asking, so that is why you saw the $62 jump to $64,, and the company balked because they said you were asking this now you want x number of dollars.The problem is once you go that route the company knows they have your number. If AMFA thinks they can do better with the federal mediator than the med/ arb because they wouldn't gain as much in economics for the scope language changes, they will not persue it! However what you end up doing is painting the membership into a corner because of the time involved trying to resolve this. The company knows AMFA won't commit suicide, so when you get a T/ A it gets voted in because they are going to target the biggest group they have to please to get it to pass! If you look at the dues money involved for the last five years, 2500 members , say an average of $70 dollars a month is $10,500,000 in dues money! We have no strike fund, so a strike is a no starter! Then your legal fees are approximately $47,000 a month, don't know what the pilots pay, that is a chunk of money that AMFA will not give up, and when you have apathetic people it's where we are at !

 

[WNMECH]

I did I was a shop steward for 8 years when we were Teamsters, been in aviation since 1987! On a serious note if you look at our updates based on the information we have been provided by both sides, it appears AMFA was trying to bend on scope for economics, and realized they better get more money than they were asking, so that is why you saw the $62 jump to $64,, and the company balked because they said you were asking this now you want x number of dollars.The problem is once you go that route the company knows they have your number. If AMFA thinks they can do better with the federal mediator than the med/ arb because they wouldn't gain as much in economics for the scope language changes, they will not persue it! However what you end up doing is painting the membership into a corner because of the time involved trying to resolve this. The company knows AMFA won't commit suicide, so when you get a T/ A it gets voted in because they are going to target the biggest group they have to please to get it to pass! If you look at the dues money involved for the last five years, 2500 members , say an average of $70 dollars a month is $10,500,000 in dues money! We have no strike fund, so a strike is a no starter! Then your legal fees are approximately $47,000 a month, don't know what the pilots pay, that is a chunk of money that AMFA will not give up, and when you have apathetic people it's where we are at !

Nobody is going to strike a job that pays this kind of money after NWA.
I also disagree with something else. It is the company painting themselves into a corner by not negotiating. The status quo is our friend not theirs.

 

[B737 driver]

Nobody is going to strike a job that pays this kind of money after NWA.
I also disagree with something else. It is the company painting themselves into a corner by not negotiating. The status quo is our friend not theirs.

I said that all along no one is going to strike, when I say painting into a corner, you get there by taking forever to come to a T/A, if the company thinks they can get it to pass not paying full retro they won't! The status quo has achieved SWA a five year pay freeze maybe longer. The RLA was enacted in 1926, to protect companies , it has been amended to help companies more than workers, but it is better than no protection at all! Sooner or later AMFA will come to the conclusion to try to get the best deal they can to stay here, and if the membership keeps most of their rules, the majority will be o.k. with that!

 

[WNMECH]

I said that all along no one is going to strike, when I say painting into a corner, you get there by taking forever to come to a T/A, if the company thinks they can get it to pass not paying full retro they won't! The status quo has achieved SWA a five year pay freeze maybe longer. The RLA was enacted in 1926, to protect companies , it has been amended to help companies more than workers, but it is better than no protection at all! Sooner or later AMFA will come to the conclusion to try to get the best deal they can to stay here, and if the membership keeps most of their rules, the majority will be o.k. with that!

I disagree.
It is the company that will realize that AMFA is not playing games. They will have to decide to come to the table ready to bargain if they want their new maintenance program with all the money saving freedoms that changes to our scope language will provide.
Until then, the status quo will keep our current contract in full force.

 

[B737 driver]

I disagree.
It is the company that will realize that AMFA is not playing games. They will have to decide to come to the table ready to bargain if they want their new maintenance program with all the money saving freedoms that changes to our scope language will provide.
Until then, the status quo will keep our current contract in full force.

Didn't say the deal would not get done, just don't think the money will be as high as some people think, wish the negotiating committee luck, not an easy job !