WN Mechanics seek mediation

[swamt]

They don't give UPS wages they are Teamsters remember, American you might get, however you must admit the other groups at SWA were a lot smarter than AMFA, they settled quicker to produce a no vote. We dragged it out forever, fighting scope worried about it being voted in, so now we want a No vote, so maybe we can go 7 or 8 years-without a contract, to make 2 to 4% more. If you do the math it would take you several years to make the difference back we have lost. The reason for the union change , is if it takes this long everytime to get a contract to even consider, if you have 19 years left to retirement, in those 19 years, you would only see two contracts.

LOL. Man you are funny. No matter what union was here it would have been the same amount of time. Except for maybe the teamsters, they would have caved a long time ago to everything the company wanted for no raises or at least the first offer offered. You just don't get it, it was the COMPANY that dragged this out for their 5 year pay freeze to start repaying the investors. After that 5 years was up they finally started throwing out some offers, very little offers and they wanted everything with no budge in any of the areas. Now, would you have taken that first deal being offered, hell no you wouldn't and neither will our NC. The co. simply thought we would all just fully embrace their first lousy offer. Well, it just doesn't work that way, so quit saying AMFA has been dragging these nego's out, it's been the freakin company and admittedly. Now you are so desperate for a contract your screaming and everything.
What makes you think I would see 2 more contracts if I were to stay another 19 years? Can you guarantee that? NO you cannot. Stop with the rhetoric and quit yelling at people for how they might vote. Vote the way you want, and I will do the same, but stop yelling at others for holding out to be made whole, that is their prerogative. Just let people get all the info and decide for themselves and their families. I have simply been on here explaining why I may vote no or yes, but, I am not telling anyone how to vote or ridicule for how they will vote, not my style nor is it my business...

BTW, they do pay UPS wages, the current offer will put us above current UPS top out on our DOS, so there...

 

[swamt]

Typical, I knew I would get a disagree from you, that was easy...

 

[B737 driver]

LOL. Man you are funny. No matter what union was here it would have been the same amount of time. Except for maybe the teamsters, they would have caved a long time ago to everything the company wanted for no raises or at least the first offer offered. You just don't get it, it was the COMPANY that dragged this out for their 5 year pay freeze to start repaying the investors. After that 5 years was up they finally started throwing out some offers, very little offers and they wanted everything with no budge in any of the areas. Now, would you have taken that first deal being offered, hell no you wouldn't and neither will our NC. The co. simply thought we would all just fully embrace their first lousy offer. Well, it just doesn't work that way, so quit saying AMFA has been dragging these nego's out, it's been the freakin company and admittedly. Now you are so desperate for a contract your screaming and everything.
What makes you think I would see 2 more contracts if I were to stay another 19 years? Can you guarantee that? NO you cannot. Stop with the rhetoric and quit yelling at people for how they might vote. Vote the way you want, and I will do the same, but stop yelling at others for holding out to be made whole, that is their prerogative. Just let people get all the info and decide for themselves and their families. I have simply been on here explaining why I may vote no or yes, but, I am not telling anyone how to vote or ridicule for how they will vote, not my style nor is it my business...

BTW, they do pay UPS wages, the current offer will put us above current UPS top out on our DOS, so there...

Who is yelling , no one is yelling, you point out logic and someone is yelling. I want a contract just like everyone, else does. This forum is pretty much a ghost town, anyway. If you operate where the union doesn't trust their membership after 6 years, and are afraid of a democratic process , we might vote in a bad deal, and the company drags stuff out, then if nothing changes you would have two contracts in 19 years. Unless you do extensions. You talk about the Teamsters caving , you could just vote it down, like United did. You talk out of both sides of your mouth, you go on the American page, and sound like how great it is. On the SWA page , you say how bad it is. I would say you are the funny one.

 

[B737 driver]

Typical, I knew I would get a disagree from you, that was easy...

You're not to hard to figure out. What amazed me through this whole process, is you have seen no fault on the union side for how they have handled it. There are always two sides to negotiations. If you have never been a union steward or rep, I highly recommend , if you can do it, to do it.It will really open your eyes to how the politics work. You will see why the company does stuff, and how the union responded behind closed doors. You will find it's not much different than running a business,or watching politicians.You will really find out a union doesn't tell their membership everything.

 

[swamt]

You're not to hard to figure out. What amazed me through this whole process, is you have seen no fault on the union side for how they have handled it. There are always two sides to negotiations. If you have never been a union steward or rep, I highly recommend , if you can do it, to do it.It will really open your eyes to how the politics work. You will see why the company does stuff, and how the union responded behind closed doors. You will find it's not much different than running a business,or watching politicians.You will really find out a union doesn't tell their membership everything.

Been there done that driver. Never again. I like my personal life. I know way more than what you think. I know every move and why, you and some just don't want to believe the truth of things. Stop blaming the union, start "supporting" your union and it will go a very long way. I fully support my nego cmte. Why? Because I am very well informed...

 

[B737 driver]

Been there done that driver. Never again. I like my personal life. I know way more than what you think. I know every move and why, you and some just don't want to believe the truth of things. Stop blaming the union, start "supporting" your union and it will go a very long way. I fully support my nego cmte. Why? Because I am very well informed...

I am blaming both sides, if you served you know, what I am talking about, and you probably have the same reasons I won't serve anymore.I must say the biggest no vote, we could've presented would have been three years ago, to prove a point. If this passes great. But if it is not a huge no, then do we go a year, waiting for the 3 %, driving it to year 7. Who knows? You must admit you probably never thought it would go this long.

 

[swamt]

I am blaming both sides, if you served you know, what I am talking about, and you probably have the same reasons I won't serve anymore.I must say the biggest no vote, we could've presented would have been three years ago, to prove a point. If this passes great. But if it is not a huge no, then do we go a year, waiting for the 3 %, driving it to year 7. Who knows? You must admit you probably never thought it would go this long.

I do admit that, but the company really wants to settle the ETOPS so the FAA will sign off for Hawaii before the end of this year. AND (big AND there) if we can only have a very few changes like the overall raises as a whole and some other minor things I would be pretty confident that we could turn another quick vote as another RS would not be required with such little changes. I still don't like the contract amendable date change, but it's not a show stopper as long as the 2018 raises would get back into the agreement. The company is trying to call our snap up raise as our 2018 raise and they are wrong and they have admitted it finally. Restore all raises due, fix the snap up, restore original contract date, and bring our yearly raises to 3% not 2.2% or 2.5% whatever it currently is. Some other minor tweeks my be in order but just rambling off top of my head...

 

[B737 driver]

I do admit that, but the company really wants to settle the ETOPS so the FAA will sign off for Hawaii before the end of this year. AND (big AND there) if we can only have a very few changes like the overall raises as a whole and some other minor things I would be pretty confident that we could turn another quick vote as another RS would not be required with such little changes. I still don't like the contract amendable date change, but it's not a show stopper as long as the 2018 raises would get back into the agreement. The company is trying to call our snap up raise as our 2018 raise and they are wrong and they have admitted it finally. Restore all raises due, fix the snap up, restore original contract date, and bring our yearly raises to 3% not 2.2% or 2.5% whatever it currently is. Some other minor tweeks my be in order but just rambling off top of my head...

If you just gave the 2018 raise, and left the rest, you would probably get over a 60% yes vote. If you do nothing it might squeak by. The company figured that maintaining our scope is worth alot to us. If you want to know the real reason some people are talking representation change is , if this turns nasty there will be such animosity created that it will take forever to get contracts done. It's like going into a courtroom with a lawyer ( AMFA) and the judge (SWA) hates your lawyer. I personally do not want to wait another year or more to get a contract, and when your union has not been very good at guessing what management will do, I want to retire someday.

 

[WeAAsles]

Union Report Raises Concerns About Outsourced Aircraft Maintenance
A new report commissioned by the Transport Workers Union raises questions about oversight of airplane maintenance and inspections being carried out in foreign countries. Transport Workers Union International President John Samuelsen explains why his organization feels airlines are risking safety.

(Published Sunday, May 27, 2018 )


https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/new...tsourced-Aircraft_Philadelphia-483815241.html

 

[737MAX7]

If you just gave the 2018 raise, and left the rest, you would probably get over a 60% yes vote. If you do nothing it might squeak by. The company figured that maintaining our scope is worth alot to us. If you want to know the real reason some people are talking representation change is , if this turns nasty there will be such animosity created that it will take forever to get contracts done. It's like going into a courtroom with a lawyer ( AMFA) and the judge (SWA) hates your lawyer. I personally do not want to wait another year or more to get a contract, and when your union has not been very good at guessing what management will do, I want to retire someday.

Your union? I thought it was our Union!

 

[Birdman]

Your union? I thought it was our Union!

your
yôr,yo͝or/
determiner

1. 1.
   belonging to or associated with the person or people that the speaker is addressing.
   "what is your name?"
2. 2.
   belonging to or associated with any person in general.
   "the sight is enough to break your heart"

BTW, latest update suggests while language clarification is progressing it could be a while before an actual vote is cast. IMO, the company would like to see this process drawn out to better their chances of a ratification. I will still wait for language completion and review before deciding.

 

[swamt]

your
yôr,yo͝or/
determiner

1. 1.
   belonging to or associated with the person or people that the speaker is addressing.
   "what is your name?"
2. 2.
   belonging to or associated with any person in general.
   "the sight is enough to break your heart"

BTW, latest update suggests while language clarification is progressing it could be a while before an actual vote is cast. IMO, the company would like to see this process drawn out to better their chances of a ratification. I will still wait for language completion and review before deciding.

I will be honest, the longer this takes the more I lean towards a NO vote. Make all numbers 3% as an average, do not skip any years for outgoing raises, adjust the snap up raise to where we are really suppose to be, (BTW AA is offering their guys 53 and some change at DOS), keep contract date in Aug., how about a slight increase in the 401K? Say 12%, and what ever happened to adding the 6th week of vac the membership wanted? And I say why not make May 24th a holiday for AMT's? Would love to see some better improvements in medical insurance. Some are saying what about scope? I say if co. tries to re-open then the NC says that would be a no go as far as a vote from the membership and the same with all other closed issues keep as is and make adjustments accordingly to pay, snap up, and raises. There would have to be some really good movement from the co. for me to vote for this offer. I say send them back to the table for some minor tweaks, but, like you say I will still make my final decision after RS's and all info is out there...

 

[swamt]

Here's the latest update Birdman mentioned. I predict RS's will last thru July and we vote the month of Aug so let's keep the contract date of Aug 16th as it has been for 40 plus years and the co. should easily expect to give us a raise on that date not skipping it as in their current offer and missing the last amendable date of 2023 @ 3%.

AMFA - SWA Technician Negotiations Update #65
May 29, 2018 -- We hope you all had a great holiday weekend. As everyone should know by now, on April 10, 2018, AMFA and Southwest Airlines announced an agreement in principal (AIP). This did not stop the hard work by both sides to turn the AIP into to a Tentative Agreement (TA). Since that time, both sides have presented total language packages on the AIP, and as of our last update -- Update #64, dated May 5, 2018 -- the parties had identified about seventeen issues with each other’s language that needed to be worked out. We have continued to work with the Company to bring those issues to a close.
Read More

 

[B737 driver]

Here's the latest update Birdman mentioned. I predict RS's will last thru July and we vote the month of Aug so let's keep the contract date of Aug 16th as it has been for 40 plus years and the co. should easily expect to give us a raise on that date not skipping it as in their current offer and missing the last amendable date of 2023 @ 3%.

AMFA - SWA Technician Negotiations Update #65
May 29, 2018 -- We hope you all had a great holiday weekend. As everyone should know by now, on April 10, 2018, AMFA and Southwest Airlines announced an agreement in principal (AIP). This did not stop the hard work by both sides to turn the AIP into to a Tentative Agreement (TA). Since that time, both sides have presented total language packages on the AIP, and as of our last update -- Update #64, dated May 5, 2018 -- the parties had identified about seventeen issues with each other’s language that needed to be worked out. We have continued to work with the Company to bring those issues to a close.
Read More

An August vote, that is year six, hopefully they sweeten the deal a little to get it passed. Because if not, and it fails, it will drive it, till 2019. We nor the company has moved fast this whole time.

 

[737MAX7]

your
yôr,yo͝or/
determiner

1. 1.
   belonging to or associated with the person or people that the speaker is addressing.
   "what is your name?"
2. 2.
   belonging to or associated with any person in general.
   "the sight is enough to break your heart"

BTW, latest update suggests while language clarification is progressing it could be a while before an actual vote is cast. IMO, the company would like to see this process drawn out to better their chances of a ratification. I will still wait for language completion and review before deciding.

Thanks for the definition. I'm well aware of the meaning. I'm also aware of who was speaking and what he meant. Just ask one of his coworkers from Mdw.