WN Mechanics seek mediation

[737MAX7]

You're full of crap, the only thing the Feds look at in labor disputes is if you are following your GMM, and the FAA 121, rules. And the maintenance manuals. I have friends that work for the FAA , and that's what they look for. When you submit your paperwork for ETOPS, or Cat 3, or Autoland. You do proving runs proving you can maintain your program. I talk to our local FAA guy when he comes around, and have known him for many years. This is just floor crap, you guys are spreading to convince people they have a leg to leverage the company if we vote no, and nothing else. Oh, and here is a clue on your human factor, stupid, we have a contract offer, but people turned it down. That's not the government's fault and that's not the company's fault. If that happens.

Typical teamster response. Call me names,yell louder than anyone and I have a friend..... I told you to believe what you want......that's it.

 

[B737 driver]

Typical teamster response. Call me names,yell louder than anyone and I have a friend..... I told you to believe what you want......that's it.

It's not a Teamsters response, last time I looked Teamsters haven't been on the property since 2003. You believe what you want Snowflake , if you turn it down SWA will still fly to Hawaii, and we will still be sitting at 2012 wages. We will lose another 10 to 15k a year minimum. And if we get a chance next year maybe 2 % more. You guys need to start doing math in your head instead of listening to what your union tells you to do. 0 % of nothing for the last six years is 0 % of nothing. Oh and Ramp and F/A will be starting their negotiations this year. So if they only had 1 to 2 days a month for us, in negotiations for over the last five years, do you really think we will be a big priority? The stores people are not. The last offer the company offered after they turned it down , the Teamsters wouldn't put it out for a vote.

 

[swamt]

Speaking of how true are the things we hear. Heard the company and the union had conference calls to iron out more questions and that it went smooth. Also was told we should have a T/A some time next week. No confirmation from co. or union at this time and I will correct if I was misinformed. We will see next week I guess.

 

[737MAX7]

It's not a Teamsters response, last time I looked Teamsters haven't been on the property since 2003. You believe what you want Snowflake , if you turn it down SWA will still fly to Hawaii, and we will still be sitting at 2012 wages. We will lose another 10 to 15k a year minimum. And if we get a chance next year maybe 2 % more. You guys need to start doing math in your head instead of listening to what your union tells you to do. 0 % of nothing for the last six years is 0 % of nothing. Oh and Ramp and F/A will be starting their negotiations this year. So if they only had 1 to 2 days a month for us, in negotiations for over the last five years, do you really think we will be a big priority? The stores people are not. The last offer the company offered after they turned it down , the Teamsters wouldn't put it out for a vote.

Wow more name calling! Now I'm stupid and a snowflake. Self validation through name calling.....impressive. And as for the teamsters they would have made a deal in a hotel room years ago.

 

[B737 driver]

Wow more name calling! Now I'm stupid and a snowflake. Self validation through name calling.....impressive. And as for the teamsters they would have made a deal in a hotel room years ago.

You are entitled to your opinion, you're the one that started talking Teamsters. The company will follow their game plan, regardless of what we do. If you want to vote no then vote no. I will vote yes, and the chips fall where they may. You have a known offer, you don't know what the next offer will be, or when it will come. So to try to preach that the company won't get ETOPS or they will give us a big pile of cash, is an unwarranted gamble. Is that big enough words for your self gratification?

 

[737MAX7]

You are entitled to your opinion, you're the one that started talking Teamsters. The company will follow their game plan, regardless of what we do. If you want to vote no then vote no. I will vote yes, and the chips fall where they may. You have a known offer, you don't know what the next offer will be, or when it will come. So to try to preach that the company won't get ETOPS or they will give us a big pile of cash, is an unwarranted gamble. Is that big enough words for your self gratification?

Actually I don't have a known offer until I read it line by line. No one is preaching anything just making a statement. I never said you had to like it but I believe in looking at both sides.....that's all. At least with your last statement you were able to withhold the name calling. Maybe we are making progress.....lol.

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

You are entitled to your opinion, you're the one that started talking Teamsters. The company will follow their game plan, regardless of what we do. If you want to vote no then vote no. I will vote yes, and the chips fall where they may. You have a known offer, you don't know what the next offer will be, or when it will come. So to try to preach that the company won't get ETOPS or they will give us a big pile of cash, is an unwarranted gamble. Is that big enough words for your self gratification?

We have all known you are a yes vote rex from the beginning. You have made that perfectly clear.

 

[B737 driver]

We have all known you are a yes vote rex from the beginning. You have made that perfectly clear.

Good glad you see that. I wouldn't vote yes if I gave my job away. We didn't lose language, so it's a no brainer unless you are just greedy. You have been nothing but insulting if people didn't tote the AMFA line to your satisfaction. So have a good life.

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

Good glad you see that. I wouldn't vote yes if I gave my job away. We didn't lose language, so it's a no brainer unless you are just greedy. You have been nothing but insulting if people didn't tote the AMFA line to your satisfaction. So have a good life.

No, you were a yes vote since you started posting back in July, back when the company NC was trying to pillage our scope.

 

[B737 driver]

No, you were a yes vote since you started posting back in July, back when the company NC was trying to pillage our scope.

You don't know how I would vote, I read dirtbag and I don't vote just to get a shinny nickel. I was tired of the excuses of nothing to look at. How many contracts , have you voted on smartass two?

 

[dgaf]

Well, hopefully next week we might see this T/A, and hopefully while in it's AIP form, the passing back and forth, maybe enticed the deal a little to try and get this a more attractive Yes vote across the system. I mean ultimately that's the end goal here, we'll see. I will say this, one thing to think about, if we do reject it, I wouldn't put all my stock in the fact the company will be chomping at the bit to get back to negotiating with us. Here's a prime example of that,
https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/5317swamsta.pdf

Material specialist folks had a T/A April of last year, and that's still in lala land with no sense of urgency there. The flight attendants and CSR's are coming up this year as well. No doubt the company needs us for Etops. They need us in the sense to have a smooth launch, transition, customer impact. If they don't have a contract done with us quickly, will no doubt delay Etops some. However, the company is bound and determined to launch Etops and don't think for a moment, they can't launch it without our blessing, it might be not real pretty, but they are not going to be held hostage, by our workgroup. All of you guys internal here, you might take a look at those load factor numbers, and see if all the great press we've had lately is working in our favor.

 

[B737 driver]

Well, hopefully next week we might see this T/A, and hopefully while in it's AIP form, the passing back and forth, maybe enticed the deal a little to try and get this a more attractive Yes vote across the system. I mean ultimately that's the end goal here, we'll see. I will say this, one thing to think about, if we do reject it, I wouldn't put all my stock in the fact the company will be chomping at the bit to get back to negotiating with us. Here's a prime example of that,
https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/5317swamsta.pdf

Material specialist folks had a T/A April of last year, and that's still in lala land with no sense of urgency there. The flight attendants and CSR's are coming up this year as well. No doubt the company needs us for Etops. They need us in the sense to have a smooth launch, transition, customer impact. If they don't have a contract done with us quickly, will no doubt delay Etops some. However, the company is bound and determined to launch Etops and don't think for a moment, they can't launch it without our blessing, it might be not real pretty, but they are not going to be held hostage, by our workgroup. All of you guys internal here, you might take a look at those load factor numbers, and see if all the great press we've had lately is working in our favor.

Couldn't agree with you more, I am glad to see people with some common sense in their head. It gets old arguing with the same people.

 

[swamt]

Well, hopefully next week we might see this T/A, and hopefully while in it's AIP form, the passing back and forth, maybe enticed the deal a little to try and get this a more attractive Yes vote across the system. I mean ultimately that's the end goal here, we'll see. I will say this, one thing to think about, if we do reject it, I wouldn't put all my stock in the fact the company will be chomping at the bit to get back to negotiating with us. Here's a prime example of that,
https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/5317swamsta.pdf

Material specialist folks had a T/A April of last year, and that's still in lala land with no sense of urgency there. The flight attendants and CSR's are coming up this year as well. No doubt the company needs us for Etops. They need us in the sense to have a smooth launch, transition, customer impact. If they don't have a contract done with us quickly, will no doubt delay Etops some. However, the company is bound and determined to launch Etops and don't think for a moment, they can't launch it without our blessing, it might be not real pretty, but they are not going to be held hostage, by our workgroup. All of you guys internal here, you might take a look at those load factor numbers, and see if all the great press we've had lately is working in our favor.

I will not vote yes just because of what might happen or not happen.
The company has held us hostage (your words) for the last 5.5 years and we just might vote on something by our 6th year (AUG 16, 2018) The company stalled nego's for the 5 year pay freeze they wanted and got, now all of a sudden were suppose to bend over backwards and accept their short of what is due offer. I could care less if we go another 2 years, I will hold out for what I deserve instead of letting the company get away with holding us hostage for 6 years and only paying us 2.25% on average per year when in very hard times they would pay us 3%. With these record profits we should be getting 4-5% per year. Don't sell yourself short. Forget all the scare tactics that will be flying (some already are) Look at what the first NO vote did for the Pilots when they needed an agreement so bad for the new Max's and now they are in the same boat with us and ETOPS. I agree with you in for the issue that the company probably will still be able to get ETOPS without us but it will take longer than if they would come to an agreement this year with us. ETOPS will have to be agreed upon prior to Hawaii flights happening. Let me rephrase that, our ETOPS's program will have to be signed off on by the FAA prior to Hawaii flights starting. But to get approved the company must have ETOPS language ironed out if we are doing it OR they will have to have an agreement with contract maint to do it but, they cannot do our ETOPS per the current contract. With all that said I think we are in a good position to hold on for a well deserved better offer since we all very patiently and professionally waited out the 5 year pay freeze for the company to return a rather large ROI to all the investors.
Before I sign off here, I am not a yes or a no vote as of yet, I am waiting for the NC RS to get all the info I need and their reasons for not endorsing this offer by the company. I also want to find out why the split decision for the 2 retro payments in two different years. Why not a little bump in the 401K for retirement, why not the added week of vac., etc... As you can probably tell I am leaning towards a no vote but will wait until after the unions and the company's RS's to make my final decision. But, I will not vote a different way just because the company will and has threatened to stall this into 2 years later, because at this point, after 6 years, I will not just cave in because it might go another year or two.
BTW have you heard we might have a T/A by some time next week too? Other than here in internet land?? And I do agree with you that I too hope there are better enhancements made since the last offer by the company as there are a lot of no votes from a lot of guys in Dallas, I have no clue about any other station. The company has the tools to get this done so let's see if they will use them to get a deal well deserving of a yes vote by all.
Take care and thanks for chiming in with no drama, it was all facts and opinions as well as an example with our stores folks.

 

[B737 driver]

I will not vote yes just because of what might happen or not happen.
The company has held us hostage (your words) for the last 5.5 years and we just might vote on something by our 6th year (AUG 16, 2018) The company stalled nego's for the 5 year pay freeze they wanted and got, now all of a sudden were suppose to bend over backwards and accept their short of what is due offer. I could care less if we go another 2 years, I will hold out for what I deserve instead of letting the company get away with holding us hostage for 6 years and only paying us 2.25% on average per year when in very hard times they would pay us 3%. With these record profits we should be getting 4-5% per year. Don't sell yourself short. Forget all the scare tactics that will be flying (some already are) Look at what the first NO vote did for the Pilots when they needed an agreement so bad for the new Max's and now they are in the same boat with us and ETOPS. I agree with you in for the issue that the company probably will still be able to get ETOPS without us but it will take longer than if they would come to an agreement this year with us. ETOPS will have to be agreed upon prior to Hawaii flights happening. Let me rephrase that, our ETOPS's program will have to be signed off on by the FAA prior to Hawaii flights starting. But to get approved the company must have ETOPS language ironed out if we are doing it OR they will have to have an agreement with contract maint to do it but, they cannot do our ETOPS per the current contract. With all that said I think we are in a good position to hold on for a well deserved better offer since we all very patiently and professionally waited out the 5 year pay freeze for the company to return a rather large ROI to all the investors.
Before I sign off here, I am not a yes or a no vote as of yet, I am waiting for the NC RS to get all the info I need and their reasons for not endorsing this offer by the company. I also want to find out why the split decision for the 2 retro payments in two different years. Why not a little bump in the 401K for retirement, why not the added week of vac., etc... As you can probably tell I am leaning towards a no vote but will wait until after the unions and the company's RS's to make my final decision. But, I will not vote a different way just because the company will and has threatened to stall this into 2 years later, because at this point, after 6 years, I will not just cave in because it might go another year or two.
BTW have you heard we might have a T/A by some time next week too? Other than here in internet land?? And I do agree with you that I too hope there are better enhancements made since the last offer by the company as there are a lot of no votes from a lot of guys in Dallas, I have no clue about any other station. The company has the tools to get this done so let's see if they will use them to get a deal well deserving of a yes vote by all.
Take care and thanks for chiming in with no drama, it was all facts and opinions as well as an example with our stores folks.

What makes you think, that we will ever made completely whole in your eyes. If as you said you could go another two years without a raise. If you did the math, we have always average 3%. The real reason we aren't getting what you think we should, is no loss of scope. AMFA preached scope forever, well when you don't lose any work rules, your raises are not as big. That's called negotiations, the union needs to be gut honest with this membership and tell people hey look guys , we kept the scope, and we can keep fighting this battle, but if you want more money, it will cost language. Since we are not willing to sell scope for dollars we had to get this to maintain our language. You actually gained so things, we have the me too language on the 401k, so we never had that before, also on the medical. You act like we are at American with a bankruptcy contract. As far as Dallas you in reality are probably split.The reason for the bonus or retro is split between 2018 and 2019, is AMFA wanted that way, the only reason I can think of is maybe for tax purposes to save us money.

 

[swamt]

What makes you think, that we will ever made completely whole in your eyes. If as you said you could go another two years without a raise. If you did the math, we have always average 3%. The real reason we aren't getting what you think we should, is no loss of scope. AMFA preached scope forever, well when you don't lose any work rules, your raises are not as big. That's called negotiations, the union needs to be gut honest with this membership and tell people hey look guys , we kept the scope, and we can keep fighting this battle, but if you want more money, it will cost language. Since we are not willing to sell scope for dollars we had to get this to maintain our language. You actually gained so things, we have the me too language on the 401k, so we never had that before, also on the medical. You act like we are at American with a bankruptcy contract. As far as Dallas you in reality are probably split.The reason for the bonus or retro is split between 2018 and 2019, is AMFA wanted that way, the only reason I can think of is maybe for tax purposes to save us money.

How many times, even in bad times, did we get 3% raises with no scope language change request? Several. To sit here and claim to get what we deserve will take giving up scope is wrong as it never has before. Another example, when the co. requested and was able to nego the El Salvador outsourcing why was the raises still only 3%? According to your figures and examples, we should have gotten 4-5% for the years on the outsourcing internationally. So with your example by NOT giving up any outsourcing we should still be getting the average 3% per year which is pretty much just cola.
Driver I have heard 3 reasons for the split in bonuses. 1- Easier on co. to agree to full retro. 2- If all bonuses would be paid in full up front at once, some would be put into the 250K and above range which would put them in the much higher tax rate. 3- AMFA wanted to split up bonuses so not to be removed after a new contract is voted in. I call the 3rd one complete B.S. as that's what some of the AMFA haters would want you to believe like that crazy nutcase in Hou. keeps posting on facebook.
dgaf is right, I too hope the company has moved enough to get me to vote yes, but since we were told that the conference call went really good (this coming from the co. side saying really good) I do not think it was enough for most of Dallas to check off on the yes block just yet. Sorry this disappoints you so much driver, but like we have said, we will do what is best for me and my family, not just because we could start flying Hawaii with a smooth ETOPS agreement. As far as I am concerned, my family has suffered just as we have on this long, long waiting road of 6 years, now is the time for the company to pay for their 5 year pay freeze, and a pause in our contracts to reward the shareholders just as GK said he was going to do...