WN Mechanics seek mediation

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

What makes you think, that we will ever made completely whole in your eyes. If as you said you could go another two years without a raise. If you did the math, we have always average 3%. The real reason we aren't getting what you think we should, is no loss of scope. AMFA preached scope forever, well when you don't lose any work rules, your raises are not as big. That's called negotiations, the union needs to be gut honest with this membership and tell people hey look guys , we kept the scope, and we can keep fighting this battle, but if you want more money, it will cost language. Since we are not willing to sell scope for dollars we had to get this to maintain our language. You actually gained so things, we have the me too language on the 401k, so we never had that before, also on the medical. You act like we are at American with a bankruptcy contract. As far as Dallas you in reality are probably split.The reason for the bonus or retro is split between 2018 and 2019, is AMFA wanted that way, the only reason I can think of is maybe for tax purposes to save us money.

You would be a fine member of the company negotiating committee. I think you would really be an asset to their cause.

 

[737MAX7]

You would be a fine member of the company negotiating committee. I think you would really be an asset to their cause.

Never a truer statement!

 

[B737 driver]

You would be a fine member of the company negotiating committee. I think you would really be an asset to their cause.

You know if you would quit being such a butthole, maybe people would listen to you. You have alot of people on the fence, the reason I made that statement to Swamt is because we were not getting anywhere for over 5 years because the company wanted scope. They finally backed off, you obviously have never been at a company that ever went through hard times. You sense of entitlement says it all, I am done with you!

 

[B737 driver]

How many times, even in bad times, did we get 3% raises with no scope language change request? Several. To sit here and claim to get what we deserve will take giving up scope is wrong as it never has before. Another example, when the co. requested and was able to nego the El Salvador outsourcing why was the raises still only 3%? According to your figures and examples, we should have gotten 4-5% for the years on the outsourcing internationally. So with your example by NOT giving up any outsourcing we should still be getting the average 3% per year which is pretty much just cola.
Driver I have heard 3 reasons for the split in bonuses. 1- Easier on co. to agree to full retro. 2- If all bonuses would be paid in full up front at once, some would be put into the 250K and above range which would put them in the much higher tax rate. 3- AMFA wanted to split up bonuses so not to be removed after a new contract is voted in. I call the 3rd one complete B.S. as that's what some of the AMFA haters would want you to believe like that crazy nutcase in Hou. keeps posting on facebook.
dgaf is right, I too hope the company has moved enough to get me to vote yes, but since we were told that the conference call went really good (this coming from the co. side saying really good) I do not think it was enough for most of Dallas to check off on the yes block just yet. Sorry this disappoints you so much driver, but like we have said, we will do what is best for me and my family, not just because we could start flying Hawaii with a smooth ETOPS agreement. As far as I am concerned, my family has suffered just as we have on this long, long waiting road of 6 years, now is the time for the company to pay for their 5 year pay freeze, and a pause in our contracts to reward the shareholders just as GK said he was going to do...

Many of times, it doesn't disappoint me, I am as frustrated as you are. But there are no guarantees in life. You do what you feel is best, based on the way you perceive the information. This will be a close vote, one way or the other. If we get some extra coin probably will push more in the yes category. If it passes great, if not then sometime next year. We will all have our reasons for what we do and how you vote. It's not like it would be a giant no vote been too long. As far as AMFA being replaced highly unlikely. If you did it would have to be your own inhouse union like SWAPA is, where we control it, only with the law firm SWAPA uses.

 

[dgaf]

This is definitely new territory for all of us. I have never seen a contract take so long in my time here at SWA, I guess that's probably because the whole time I've been here, it's been extensions of a Teamsters contract, until now. Hell, I've never seen one take so long in my entire aviation career, spanning 28 years now with two airlines, lol. Yes, I have heard the same towards the end of the week a T/A, coming out. Though, if you are hearing it from the same channels I'm hearing it, hard to say for sure if it's 100% bonified. I'm hoping so, want something to physically look over and examine. We're all in the same boat, so everybody has a valid perspective of what drives their yea/nay, but do want to throw something out there, and if you guys have been in this field long enough, you know what I say is true. When it's comes to the pilots, they have more horse power than any other group on the property. They are literally the drivers of this bus, and everybody else is just a pax. That's not meant to be disrespectful of our craft, it's just the facts. I once though we were just as loud of a voice as they were, but our friends at NWA showed us years ago, that's not the case.

 

[B737 driver]

This is definitely new territory for all of us. I have never seen a contract take so long in my time here at SWA, I guess that's probably because the whole time I've been here, it's been extensions of a Teamsters contract, until now. Hell, I've never seen one take so long in my entire aviation career, spanning 28 years now with two airlines, lol. Yes, I have heard the same towards the end of the week a T/A, coming out. Though, if you are hearing it from the same channels I'm hearing it, hard to say for sure if it's 100% bonified. I'm hoping so, want something to physically look over and examine. We're all in the same boat, so everybody has a valid perspective of what drives their yea/nay, but do want to throw something out there, and if you guys have been in this field long enough, you know what I say is true. When it's comes to the pilots, they have more horse power than any other group on the property. They are literally the drivers of this bus, and everybody else is just a pax. That's not meant to be disrespectful of our craft, it's just the facts. I once though we were just as loud of a voice as they were, but our friends at NWA showed us years ago, that's not the case.

Our numbers are defiantly a lot smaller than Northwest. Everyone wants to believe we have a lot of power, but we really don't have that much. I have been here 24 years, we mostly got our 3% raise, a signing bonus and we moved on. For whatever reason when we started talking in 2011, we wanted full blown negotiations, maybe it was to show AMFA can negotiate a contract just as well as the other unions or better. It makes for an excellent recruiting tool, when you can claim that you renegotiated all this great stuff. I personally think the negotiating committee was shocked that the company wanted all these changes, so then the train went off the track! Well we finally maintained our scope, and quit asking for astronomical economics because the company wanted our scope. So now we are where we should have been 2 to 3 years ago, so there is no need to go around pointing fingers.

 

[swamt]

And what is wrong with making us whole like they did the Pilots and then some. When you add in all factors, the monies missing are not chump change. If you take the 3 (should be 4-5%) missing from years 2018 and from the final year 2023 (which was smaller in 2012 so more like 2% for 2023) and you add in the missing snap up portion which I have been told somewhere around 1.7-2.1% missing you have a total of about somewhere between 7-8%. With where we will be with this contract that is no chump changes guys. 7% would be around 8,400 per year missing (no O/T). 8% would be 9,600 per year missing. Now you add in the average overtime we do (going by Dallas average here guys) it's more like 10K-12K each and every year by end of current contract offer. Why did I use average overtime? Because the company loves to do that when they offer something. I know not all of us have the o/t available or even want to do any, but just getting the average out there to be fair. You know that's 100K over a 10 year span and that's on the low end. That would be a great down payment on a new home, it could be a cash payment for a new "nice" car. Or even better a more wise move of sending the 10K into 2 Roth IRA accounts tax free. Now how does that "not making the mechanics whole offer" look? It's not as small as some are wanting the membership to think it is. I will get my final numbers from "OUR" economist and NC not from the co. twisted math they want you to believe. And like I have always said, I am sick and tired of this company "expecting" to always get by with what they really owe thru the years and contracts that did involve back pay, retro. It's time we be made whole. If they would raise the snap up to what it should be, add in the 2018 raise, and add in the 2023 raise (I would even agree with a reduced 2% on year 2023, but not 1%, then maybe that might sway my vote. But I still need to see all the rest of language and rules if and how much has changed.
I will not knock how anyone will vote. I am merely expressing my personal reasons of why I would be a yes or a no vote. I still will wait for the RS's and the full explanation and description of everything from my NC, economist and the union before I make my final decision, but, in the meantime I will not let or allow any company rhetoric get in my way or influence me or my decision in any way, I simply do not trust this company as much as I use to. It use to be what the co. said was golden, not so much any more.
Glad to hear some others (dgaf) are hearing the same about a T/A this week some time and I too, dgaf, really hope there were some improvements, otherwise, I will be stuck in the no column. Sorry for rambling on fellas but am passionate about being made whole...

 

[WeAAsles]

https://www.twu.org/

 

[B737 driver]

View attachment 12835

https://www.twu.org/

Glad to see you back Weazz, so you guys going to be headed to Section 6?

 

[WeAAsles]

Glad to see you back Weazz, so you guys going to be headed to Section 6?

Could be? Still a few more months ahead of us before we know if that’s a positive.

 

[B737 driver]

And what is wrong with making us whole like they did the Pilots and then some. When you add in all factors, the monies missing are not chump change. If you take the 3 (should be 4-5%) missing from years 2018 and from the final year 2023 (which was smaller in 2012 so more like 2% for 2023) and you add in the missing snap up portion which I have been told somewhere around 1.7-2.1% missing you have a total of about somewhere between 7-8%. With where we will be with this contract that is no chump changes guys. 7% would be around 8,400 per year missing (no O/T). 8% would be 9,600 per year missing. Now you add in the average overtime we do (going by Dallas average here guys) it's more like 10K-12K each and every year by end of current contract offer. Why did I use average overtime? Because the company loves to do that when they offer something. I know not all of us have the o/t available or even want to do any, but just getting the average out there to be fair. You know that's 100K over a 10 year span and that's on the low end. That would be a great down payment on a new home, it could be a cash payment for a new "nice" car. Or even better a more wise move of sending the 10K into 2 Roth IRA accounts tax free. Now how does that "not making the mechanics whole offer" look? It's not as small as some are wanting the membership to think it is. I will get my final numbers from "OUR" economist and NC not from the co. twisted math they want you to believe. And like I have always said, I am sick and tired of this company "expecting" to always get by with what they really owe thru the years and contracts that did involve back pay, retro. It's time we be made whole. If they would raise the snap up to what it should be, add in the 2018 raise, and add in the 2023 raise (I would even agree with a reduced 2% on year 2023, but not 1%, then maybe that might sway my vote. But I still need to see all the rest of language and rules if and how much has changed.
I will not knock how anyone will vote. I am merely expressing my personal reasons of why I would be a yes or a no vote. I still will wait for the RS's and the full explanation and description of everything from my NC, economist and the union before I make my final decision, but, in the meantime I will not let or allow any company rhetoric get in my way or influence me or my decision in any way, I simply do not trust this company as much as I use to. It use to be what the co. said was golden, not so much any more.
Glad to hear some others (dgaf) are hearing the same about a T/A this week some time and I too, dgaf, really hope there were some improvements, otherwise, I will be stuck in the no column. Sorry for rambling on fellas but am passionate about being made whole...

So Swampy where is our T/A to look at? Memorial day weekend, not going to happen. Maybe next Friday June 1 st. I have a local 4 meeting coming up on May 31st, I should ask then.

 

[swamt]

There won't be one. One item left to get settled. Field Tech positions are still open. Something about the way the retro will get paid. Yes, please drill the union with questions on why no T/A yet. I am hearing Dallas will hammer them too. But, I am also hearing if the retro and bonus numbers do not meet what we are owed there will be a large no vote coming and with the rumored possible change in the way retro will be passed out the no's are growing very fast, even by the guys screaming for something to look at.
The companies quote that we will have a T/A by this week is yet again another lie from their side just to stall and try and get the membership po'd at the NC, when in fact it's just getting the membership po'd at the company even more. At this point I will make a prediction, with the company messing around with how the monies will be distributed for retro and bonus, I predict a no vote to prevail, unless the company can come up to par with the unions numbers for retro, bonus, snap up and skip no years for the raises. Other than that I see a no vote coming.
BTW I never said there would be a T/A, I only said we were hearing of a possible T/A some time this week. But that all turned out to be false yet again...

 

[B737 driver]

There won't be one. One item left to get settled. Field Tech positions are still open. Something about the way the retro will get paid. Yes, please drill the union with questions on why no T/A yet. I am hearing Dallas will hammer them too. But, I am also hearing if the retro and bonus numbers do meet what we are owed there will be a large no vote coming and with the rumored possible change in the way retro will be passed out the no's are growing very fast, even by the guys screaming for something to look at.
The companies quote that we will have a T/A by this week is yet again another lie from their side just to stall and try and get the membership po'd at the NC, when in fact it's just getting the membership po'd at the company even more. At this point I will make a prediction, with the company messing around with how the monies will be distributed for retro and bonus, I predict a no vote to prevail, unless the company can come up to par with the unions numbers for retro, bonus, snap up and skip no years for the raises. Other than that I see a no vote coming.
BTW I never said there would be a T/A, I only said we were hearing of a possible T/A some time this week. But that all turned out to be false yet again...

I am beginning to think we need our own in house union like the pilots, and go under their umbrella. You Don't announce an AIP with open issues, the AIP is when all your articles are T/A, sorry I don't buy AMFA stall tactics. With people going on Vacation you might as well take a sabbatical, and have the vote in September.

 

[swamt]

I am beginning to think we need our own in house union like the pilots, and go under their umbrella. You Don't announce an AIP with open issues, the AIP is when all your articles are T/A, sorry I don't buy AMFA stall tactics. With people going on Vacation you might as well take a sabbatical, and have the vote in September.

Wow! That quick and you are ready to replace the union. Man, it just shows how bad YOU want a contract.
The AA guys are just now receiving w revised offer from their company and they upped the pay rates for them to 3% above the upcoming Oct. raises. SWA has waited too long once again and some adjustments are in order in the pay rates. They actually have no one to blame but themselves for dragging this AIP out too long before getting it to a T/A. All our members better look at the new AA mechanics offer and benefits changes that the company is now throwing at them. If our co. would apply the 2018 raise as well as the 2023 raises that are missing and the 2% missing from the snap up, then I could see it passing, but not necessarily by any kind of a land slide, it will still be close in my opinion, but for now I am hearing more and more no's. Again the co. waited too long, if they keep up doing what they are doing we will get the final results from the UPS mechanics contract offer from their company and I would gladly wait for that, wouldn't anyone???

 

[B737 driver]

Wow! That quick and you are ready to replace the union. Man, it just shows how bad YOU want a contract.
The AA guys are just now receiving w revised offer from their company and they upped the pay rates for them to 3% above the upcoming Oct. raises. SWA has waited too long once again and some adjustments are in order in the pay rates. They actually have no one to blame but themselves for dragging this AIP out too long before getting it to a T/A. All our members better look at the new AA mechanics offer and benefits changes that the company is now throwing at them. If our co. would apply the 2018 raise as well as the 2023 raises that are missing and the 2% missing from the snap up, then I could see it passing, but not necessarily by any kind of a land slide, it will still be close in my opinion, but for now I am hearing more and more no's. Again the co. waited too long, if they keep up doing what they are doing we will get the final results from the UPS mechanics contract offer from their company and I would gladly wait for that, wouldn't anyone???

They don't give UPS wages they are Teamsters remember, American you might get, however you must admit the other groups at SWA were a lot smarter than AMFA, they settled quicker to produce a no vote. We dragged it out forever, fighting scope worried about it being voted in, so now we want a No vote, so maybe we can go 7 or 8 years-without a contract, to make 2 to 4% more. If you do the math it would take you several years to make the difference back we have lost. The reason for the union change , is if it takes this long everytime to get a contract to even consider, if you have 19 years left to retirement, in those 19 years, you would only see two contracts.