WN Mechanics seek mediation

[swamt]

At least the F/A's are doing something. First the Pilots, now the F/A's, and where is AMFA's announcement???
 
 
 

Chicago Business Journal

Southwest Airlines flight attendants launching new informational campaign

 

[swamt]

In a lot of discussions with fellow mechanics I can say most agree it's no time to fund raises with concessions including a lot of talk about article in the Grapevine titled "Bargaining with the "New" Southwest Airlines".
http://www.amfanational.org/grapevine/42016grapevinemain.htm

Yes. And unbelievable how quiet it is about our current nego's.  According to the co. it's they get all the wants 100% or there will be no contract. Well, I guess there will be no contract then.  The co's offer is belittling us all. Their offer is a typical "as we were" offer, when now we are making record everything. They need to get a clue. Their measly offer no way aligns with their ask. So I guess we will just continue with what we have. Looks like there will be no contract this year or even next year.  I pray our nego cmte. does not fold to these pathetic wants by the co. It looks to me that the co is trying to stretch this out until the profits start to drop in order to say they cannot offer any more and get the concessions. The moral continues to go down the tubes as this new regime plays out their network, so sad, so sad indeed...

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes. And unbelievable how quiet it is about our current nego's.  According to the co. it's they get all the wants 100% or there will be no contract. Well, I guess there will be no contract then.  The co's offer is belittling us all. Their offer is a typical "as we were" offer, when now we are making record everything. They need to get a clue. Their measly offer no way aligns with their ask. So I guess we will just continue with what we have. Looks like there will be no contract this year or even next year.  I pray our nego cmte. does not fold to these pathetic wants by the co. It looks to me that the co is trying to stretch this out until the profits start to drop in order to say they cannot offer any more and get the concessions. The moral continues to go down the tubes as this new regime plays out their network, so sad, so sad indeed...

You're not going to get an agreement until either the TWU/IAM Association or the IBT or both lock in at AA and or UAL. And I do believe it will go in this order. AA will be first now that UAL members voted no, then UAL will get a deal worthy of passage and then you will have your agreement. And they will all come this year. Or at worst yours will come in very early in 2017.

 

[swamt]

You're not going to get an agreement until either the TWU/IAM Association or the IBT or both lock in at AA and or UAL. And I do believe it will go in this order. AA will be first now that UAL members voted no, then UAL will get a deal worthy of passage and then you will have your agreement. And they will all come this year. Or at worst yours will come in very early in 2017.

I beg to differ. I think AA will in fact vote down the first offer from the co. even IF the asso. agrees to a TA. Just my prediction. I really think UAL will be before AA with a contract. Us? Not really sure where we will fall in at. Since the co. has stated from a long time ago that they were waiting for the rest of the airlines to "catch up" for cost competitive reasons, I believe we are getting close. However, with the co. holding so strong on their demands, we may be going to binding arbitration. After all, SWA has the highest outsourcing % rate than any other major airline other than UPS and maybe FedEx. We must hold on to the small % of in house maint. we have. Otherwise, there will be no maint. at SWA to come into and perform by future AMT's, let alone who is here now and just starting their careers as AMT's. It is sad to state but, I could not recommend my own son to go into the A&P program or school to start a career as an AMT in the aviation industry. I would recommend him to search out some other line of career avenue. 
Friendly bet for you weAAsles, I bet UAL mech's will come to a contract before AA mech's will. What says you???

 

[700UW]

The Mechanic at Related at the New AA have already T/Aed 17 Articles since December.

 

[1AA]

I believe AA is sitting back at a slow pace for a reason. Waiting to see what UAL/CAL negotiations brings out. Waiting to see how things turn out at SWA. We at AA currently are under CBA's on both sides and the company can easily drag this out for another year. The last negotiations update they are still exchanging and counter exchanging proposals with a T/A here and there on some articles. The compensation articles have not been discussed yet. Since both sides have agreements in place there is no option of mediation or arbitration untill after agreements reach their amendable dates and then as we all know things get extended from that point on. So we at AA on the company side has the luxury of waiting to see how SWA and UAL/CAL plays out. Best of luck to all of us. The industry is at a peak on profits and yet the three airlines in negotiations can't get a industry leading contract without giving more concessions in benefits, headcount and work rules. That says plenty about how the airlines respects its maintenance department.

 

[WeAAsles]

I beg to differ. I think AA will in fact vote down the first offer from the co. even IF the asso. agrees to a TA. Just my prediction. I really think UAL will be before AA with a contract. Us? Not really sure where we will fall in at. Since the co. has stated from a long time ago that they were waiting for the rest of the airlines to "catch up" for cost competitive reasons, I believe we are getting close. However, with the co. holding so strong on their demands, we may be going to binding arbitration. After all, SWA has the highest outsourcing % rate than any other major airline other than UPS and maybe FedEx. We must hold on to the small % of in house maint. we have. Otherwise, there will be no maint. at SWA to come into and perform by future AMT's, let alone who is here now and just starting their careers as AMT's. It is sad to state but, I could not recommend my own son to go into the A&P program or school to start a career as an AMT in the aviation industry. I would recommend him to search out some other line of career avenue. 
Friendly bet for you weAAsles, I bet UAL mech's will come to a contract before AA mech's will. What says you???

Of course I'll take the bet since I already put in writing my opinion. AA Mexhanics will have a TA by July IMO and it will pass. Not by much though says my crystal ball. It will wind up being one of those passed by 57% deals. (US mechanics passed their last TA) IBT needs to back off on their Teamcare and VEBA and you and I know they don't want to drop that willingly, but they will eventually. And then SWA management will know where they stand against their competitors and pencil in your deal.

swamt this is not a knock but from the last couple of comments you've made on this thread you don't sound too enamored by the representation you've been receiving lately? You're even now talking ultimate doomsday annihilation and the end of all things here in your last comment?

Are we doing a role reversal here because I don't believe that's going to happen. Your Union will secure you a deal and it will even come with modest increases in wages and work IMO again.

 

[WeAAsles]

I believe AA is sitting back at a slow pace for a reason. Waiting to see what UAL/CAL negotiations brings out. Waiting to see how things turn out at SWA. We at AA currently are under CBA's on both sides and the company can easily drag this out for another year. The last negotiations update they are still exchanging and counter exchanging proposals with a T/A here and there on some articles. The compensation articles have not been discussed yet. Since both sides have agreements in place there is no option of mediation or arbitration untill after agreements reach their amendable dates and then as we all know things get extended from that point on. So we at AA on the company side has the luxury of waiting to see how SWA and UAL/CAL plays out. Best of luck to all of us. The industry is at a peak on profits and yet the three airlines in negotiations can't get a industry leading contract without giving more concessions in benefits, headcount and work rules. That says plenty about how the airlines respects its maintenance department.

The compensation articles are always done dead last because each item in a contract that is TA'd has a cost associated with it. Those costs normally add up to a charge that can either give or take away from the last item, your wages. But currently your wages are already known. Since UAL passed on their deal you're still 3% above the top DL rates.

So now though as the company thinks on that cost they're looking at how to find the set amounts in other areas of your future contract to not blow their costs out of the water when it comes to setting that promised wage? And it's also something I can bet that the company has failed to convey in that room?

Your issue to think about is did the old AA through BK get all the changes to work rules and jobs that they really needed to stay competitive against the costs of the other airlines?

Bob Owens and Dawg were the guys you needed to listen to for that debate but I think you and your supporters unfortunately ran them off or something? I think they got tired of the nonsense frankly and that's a real shame for the knowledge they brought to the table and your minds.

 

[WeAAsles]

The Mechanic at Related at the New AA have already T/Aed 17 Articles since December.

Maintenance has 18 articles TA'd while Fleet has 17.

 

[700UW]

So how many articles had WN and AMFA TAed?

 

[AANOTOK]

Maintenance has 18 articles TA'd while Fleet has 17.

And how many have the fleet negotiators tabled for the lack of or negative progress??

 

[WeAAsles]

And how many have the fleet negotiators tabled for the lack of or negative progress??

Well at least this time even though this is not a AA Fleet thread the last big one I know about was "Temporary Employees" If the company doesn't want to back away at all from their position would you rather they just continue to argue about it or set it aside and come back to it at a later date when maybe some movement can happen?

Or would you rather our negotiators just capitulate and relent.

 

[AANOTOK]

Well at least this time even though this is not a AA Fleet thread the last big one I know about was "Temporary Employees" If the company doesn't want to back away at all from their position would you rather they just continue to argue about it or set it aside and come back to it at a later date when maybe some movement can happen?

Or would you rather our negotiators just capitulate and relent.

First, this will be my last comment here because we are talking AA and this is the SW discussion zone. I have no problem with the tabling of anything they feel they need to W, so no I don't expect them to "capitulate and relent. I say Kudos to the negotiators...but as usual, you miss the point. If you and 700 are going to so proudly speak on how far along the negotiations are moving and stating what they have T/A'd, let's tell the full story and mention there are MAJOR issues, and some I predict will make you miss your "July" prediction date. Your response if any can be posted over at the AA fleet thread...

 

[WeAAsles]

First, this will be my last comment here because we are talking AA and this is the SW discussion zone. I have no problem with the tabling of anything they feel they need to W, so no I don't expect them to "capitulate and relent. I say Kudos to the negotiators...but as usual, you miss the point. If you and 700 are going to so proudly speak on how far along the negotiations are moving and stating what they have T/A'd, let's tell the full story and mention there are MAJOR issues, and some I predict will make you miss your "July" prediction date. Your response if any can be posted over at the AA fleet thread...

I personally have no clue if there are any MAJOR issues yet? Maybe there will be?

And that was 700 who compared the timelines not me. I said further back in the thread why I believe SWA management has them in a holding pattern. Much the same for Fleet until the members on the West Coast forced the issue and the FA's at SWA seem to be in a holding pattern as well. That one also probably waiting for the outcome for the AFA at UAL?

 

[1AA]

The compensation articles are always done dead last because each item in a contract that is TA'd has a cost associated with it. Those costs normally add up to a charge that can either give or take away from the last item, your wages. But currently your wages are already known. Since UAL passed on their deal you're still 3% above the top DL rates.
So now though as the company thinks on that cost they're looking at how to find the set amounts in other areas of your future contract to not blow their costs out of the water when it comes to setting that promised wage? And it's also something I can bet that the company has failed to convey in that room?
Your issue to think about is did the old AA through BK get all the changes to work rules and jobs that they really needed to stay competitive against the costs of the other airlines?
Bob Owens and Dawg were the guys you needed to listen to for that debate but I think you and your supporters unfortunately ran them off or something? I think they got tired of the nonsense frankly and that's a real shame for the knowledge they brought to the table and your minds.

The situation at SWA and UAL is that they are past amendable dates and have rights for mediation and or arbitration. AA does not so foot dragging can happen from the company side and nothing can be done about it. Sadly we should have been further along in negotiations. I doubt I drove Bob Owens away or anyone else.