WN Mechanics seek mediation

[B737 driver]

30 years ago an old mechanic told me to stay clear of aa. He said it was a nightmare with union politics and disgruntled employees. I see nothing has changed. He worked two years and quit. Glad I took his advise

And to think I turned down American, United, and McDonnell Douglas, unfortunately was at the original Midway Airlines, luckily I got on with SWA.

 

[B737 driver]

Damn, the squirt called out dogs last night and I missed it.

Well been quiet 300 s are gone, storms Affected revenues, government telling people not to go to Cuba, dog and pony road shows, coming up. MORE LIKE PINKY AND THE BRAIN SHOW! And guess what still no contract, excellent .

 

[swamt]

Just a last minute reminder for all. Road Shows are starting tomorrow for the 2nd and 3rd of Oct. for Dallas. Hope all can attend and get all their questions answered. I do not agree with this being held on company property. Here are the dates and times:

Dallas Road Show Schedule
On August 17, 2017, AMFA and Southwest Airlines finished the last scheduled negotiation session for the foreseeable future. The AMFA Negotiating Committee has made the decision to go out and explain where we are in the process, what issues remain open, and to answer questions from the membership. The meeting schedule for Dallas is outlined below:

NOTE: Times for Graveyard shift have been changed.

Monday, October 2:
Graveyard shift 0600-0800
Day shift, Bays 1 and 2 1000-1200
Eve shift 1730-1930

Tuesday, October 3:
Graveyard shift 0600-0800
Day shift, Bays 3 and 4 1000-1200
Eve shift 1730-1930

All meetings will be held in the Bay 1 break room.

To help eliminate additional loss of time for lunch, we plan to order lunch so everyone can remain in place.

Participants will include:

Bret Oestreich – National Director
Earl Clark – Director, Region I
Will Abbott – Director, Region II
Bob Cramer – Airline Representative, Local 4
Craig Hamlet – Airline Representative, Local 11
Shane Flachman – Airline Representative, Local 18
Mike Young – Airline Representative, Local 32
Lucas Middlebrook – AMFA Counsel

 

[B737 driver]

Just a last minute reminder for all. Road Shows are starting tomorrow for the 2nd and 3rd of Oct. for Dallas. Hope all can attend and get all their questions answered. I do not agree with this being held on company property. Here are the dates and times:

Dallas Road Show Schedule
On August 17, 2017, AMFA and Southwest Airlines finished the last scheduled negotiation session for the foreseeable future. The AMFA Negotiating Committee has made the decision to go out and explain where we are in the process, what issues remain open, and to answer questions from the membership. The meeting schedule for Dallas is outlined below:

NOTE: Times for Graveyard shift have been changed.

Monday, October 2:
Graveyard shift 0600-0800
Day shift, Bays 1 and 2 1000-1200
Eve shift 1730-1930

Tuesday, October 3:
Graveyard shift 0600-0800
Day shift, Bays 3 and 4 1000-1200
Eve shift 1730-1930

All meetings will be held in the Bay 1 break room.

To help eliminate additional loss of time for lunch, we plan to order lunch so everyone can remain in place.

Participants will include:

Bret Oestreich – National Director
Earl Clark – Director, Region I
Will Abbott – Director, Region II
Bob Cramer – Airline Representative, Local 4
Craig Hamlet – Airline Representative, Local 11
Shane Flachman – Airline Representative, Local 18
Mike Young – Airline Representative, Local 32
Lucas Middlebrook – AMFA Counsel

Why because more people can show up, and say how,mad they are, and the executive board, negotiating committee can't hide.

 

[WeAAsles]

Why because more people can show up, and say how,mad they are, and the executive board, negotiating committee can't hide.

I'd love to read how this meeting goes over after 5 very long years now?

Why do they refuse to let their members voices be heard?

 

[swamt]

I'd love to read how this meeting goes over after 5 very long years now?

Why do they refuse to let their members voices be heard?

Not sure as of yet. Haven't had the meetings yet. I would be willing to bet that the scope changes are so drastic that the outcome they simply cannot come to an agreement to send it out. Not to mention the lack of retro, pay, benefits etc... There has to be some kind of reasons and hopefully they will reveal them over these RS meetings. Some will be upset that they still have no agreement, and some will understand why, but just remember, just as you have stated yourself, you can't please them all at the same time. Also, the loudest members will be the folks that are in dyer need of money and pay increases, the ones that only focus on the $$$$ and not the full body of the contract changes. I am sure someone will post updates and their own opinions. I just hope it will be informative and get all questions answered.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not sure as of yet. Haven't had the meetings yet. I would be willing to bet that the scope changes are so drastic that the outcome they simply cannot come to an agreement to send it out. Not to mention the lack of retro, pay, benefits etc... There has to be some kind of reasons and hopefully they will reveal them over these RS meetings. Some will be upset that they still have no agreement, and some will understand why, but just remember, just as you have stated yourself, you can't please them all at the same time. Also, the loudest members will be the folks that are in dyer need of money and pay increases, the ones that only focus on the $$$$ and not the full body of the contract changes. I am sure someone will post updates and their own opinions. I just hope it will be informative and get all questions answered.

Excellent response swamt. And I hope people hear updates they like or can at least accept at those meetings.

 

[B737 driver]

I'd love to read how this meeting goes over after 5 very long years now?

Why do they refuse to let their members voices be heard?

Because they think we are stupid and can't make up, our own minds.Plus these ALRs do not have to work on aircraft as long as they are negotiating or other union business. Great set up for them.

 

[WeAAsles]

Because they think we are stupid and can't make up, our own minds.Plus these ALRs do not have to work on aircraft as long as they are negotiating or other union business. Great set up for them.

driver: I wanted to ask you about this comment you made on the other thread.

"He Swamt lives in denial, in 5 years, we have lost at least about $140,000 , he won't address that, the ALR,S won't sign off to vote because they think it will pass. Because we are stupid according to them.Sohis whatever it takes maybe he will lose $400,000 . But by golly we showed them."

5 years ago were you offered another contract extension for wage increases and was there any catch to those wage increases?

How do you come up with $140,000? Did the math on 5 years base (not compounded loses) equal the 140k or are you including all losses that could equal at least?

 

[B737 driver]

driver: I wanted to ask you about this comment you made on the other thread.

"He Swamt lives in denial, in 5 years, we have lost at least about $140,000 , he won't address that, the ALR,S won't sign off to vote because they think it will pass. Because we are stupid according to them.Sohis whatever it takes maybe he will lose $400,000 . But by golly we showed them."

5 years ago were you offered another contract extension for wage increases and was there any catch to those wage increases?

How do you come up with $140,000? Did the math on 5 years base (not compounded loses) equal the 140k or are you including all losses that could equal at least?

We were offered a contract extension, with no language changes, would been a signing bonus, standard pay raises, if AMFA even though it was in our language to not persue the 4th line of maintenance, and then to work it out at a later date. AMFA said no persued it to arbitration, and started the bad blood. The $140,000 is based on base pay, overtime, 401 k, increase contribution, double time, tripple time, profit sharing, 401 k match, and premium position pay. You would have to ask Swamt how much he has lost.The fourth line maintenance would have still stayed.We just would had to work it out with the company. But in AMFA defence the company also said trust us with the Airtran integration, that ship has sailed. Both sides are creating a **** storm and unfortunately in the end AMFA is going to pay the piper. Regardless if Swamt wants to agree or not.

 

[WeAAsles]

We were offered a contract extension, with no language changes, would been a signing bonus, standard pay raises, if AMFA even though it was in our language to not persue the 4th line of maintenance, and then to work it out at a later date. AMFA said no persued it to arbitration, and started the bad blood. The $140,000 is based on base pay, overtime, 401 k, increase contribution, double time, tripple time, profit sharing, 401 k match, and premium position pay. You would have to ask Swamt how much he has lost.The fourth line maintenance would have still stayed.We just would had to work it out with the company. But in AMFA defence the company also said trust us with the Airtran integration, that ship has sailed. Both sides are creating a **** storm and unfortunately in the end AMFA is going to pay the piper. Regardless if Swamt wants to agree or not.

Do you think it was SSM&P who convinced the elected AMFA Officers that it was in their best interests to engage in the full Section 6 bargaining session? It does seem like the Lawyers (What else is new) are the only ones benefiting from the maybe too lengthy process.

swamt in hindsight do you think that maybe you all should have accepted another wage extension and let the AA Bankruptcy play out to see where things fell in a few years with the rest of the industry? Do you think the AMFA Leaders felt they needed to prove the naysayers wrong that they could negotiate a full excellent CBA? How much do you suppose financially you've fallen behind so far? (Absolutely not to say that you still aren't compensated quite well BTW)

 

[swamt]

Do you think it was SSM&P who convinced the elected AMFA Officers that it was in their best interests to engage in the full Section 6 bargaining session? It does seem like the Lawyers (What else is new) are the only ones benefiting from the maybe too lengthy process.

swamt in hindsight do you think that maybe you all should have accepted another wage extension and let the AA Bankruptcy play out to see where things fell in a few years with the rest of the industry? Do you think the AMFA Leaders felt they needed to prove the naysayers wrong that they could negotiate a full excellent CBA? How much do you suppose financially you've fallen behind so far? (Absolutely not to say that you still aren't compensated quite well BTW)

Nothing to do with AA BK. Company wanted an extension but only with some "must haves" in order to get it. We are not that far behind weez. It's a matter of time and "retro" with most of us. Some only see the $$$ signs and this is what the company is banking on, as they have always done in the past. Only thing is now, we are not in the past, we will not go for it until they decide to nego in good faith, hence the lawsuits...

 

[swamt]

We were offered a contract extension, with no language changes, would been a signing bonus, standard pay raises, if AMFA even though it was in our language to not persue the 4th line of maintenance, and then to work it out at a later date. AMFA said no persued it to arbitration, and started the bad blood. The $140,000 is based on base pay, overtime, 401 k, increase contribution, double time, tripple time, profit sharing, 401 k match, and premium position pay. You would have to ask Swamt how much he has lost.The fourth line maintenance would have still stayed.We just would had to work it out with the company. But in AMFA defence the company also said trust us with the Airtran integration, that ship has sailed. Both sides are creating a **** storm and unfortunately in the end AMFA is going to pay the piper. Regardless if Swamt wants to agree or not.

Wow! You are so far gone. Where do you get this info? Oh, forgive me, you must be one of the guys that run to the company to get your info. Yes, you do.
We were offered an extension. You state, with NO language changes. That is complete BS. There were a number of "must haves" that were directly tied to that original extension you speak of.
You are also completely lost on the 4th line of maint you talk about in your post.
AMFA took it to arbitration? We have never been in arbitration. Where do you get this shite??
I assure you Driver, if the current offer is voted in, the 4th line of maint will in fact be gone some time in the future, read the contract for Gods sake, please.

 

[WeAAsles]

Nothing to do with AA BK. Company wanted an extension but only with some "must haves" in order to get it. We are not that far behind weez. It's a matter of time and "retro" with most of us. Some only see the $$$ signs and this is what the company is banking on, as they have always done in the past. Only thing is now, we are not in the past, we will not go for it until they decide to nego in good faith, hence the lawsuits...

"Some only see the $$$" but you keep talking about how you want full retro? You're not sounding much different if you keep focusing on that.

Tell you the truth I highly doubt that the Company is ever going to offer you full retro. I'm being honest and calling it as I see it.

SWA Management doesn't play ball the same way they used to in the past.

 

[WeAAsles]

Wow! You are so far gone. Where do you get this info? Oh, forgive me, you must be one of the guys that run to the company to get your info. Yes, you do.
We were offered an extension. You state, with NO language changes. That is complete BS. There were a number of "must haves" that were directly tied to that original extension you speak of.
You are also completely lost on the 4th line of maint you talk about in your post.
AMFA took it to arbitration? We have never been in arbitration. Where do you get this shite??
I assure you Driver, if the current offer is voted in, the 4th line of maint will in fact be gone some time in the future, read the contract for Gods sake, please.

Do you have any documents to either prove or disprove that there were or weren't must haves?

Either you swamt or driver?