WN Mechanics seek mediation

[B737 driver]

Wow! You are so far gone. Where do you get this info? Oh, forgive me, you must be one of the guys that run to the company to get your info. Yes, you do.
We were offered an extension. You state, with NO language changes. That is complete BS. There were a number of "must haves" that were directly tied to that original extension you speak of.
You are also completely lost on the 4th line of maint you talk about in your post.
AMFA took it to arbitration? We have never been in arbitration. Where do you get this shite??
I assure you Driver, if the current offer is voted in, the 4th line of maint will in fact be gone some time in the future, read the contract for Gods sake, please.

I read the contract, the company offered a fifth line of maintenance, and you are lying they

Wow! You are so far gone. Where do you get this info? Oh, forgive me, you must be one of the guys that run to the company to get your info. Yes, you do.
We were offered an extension. You state, with NO language changes. That is complete BS. There were a number of "must haves" that were directly tied to that original extension you speak of.
You are also completely lost on the 4th line of maint you talk about in your post.
AMFA took it to arbitration? We have never been in arbitration. Where do you get this shite??
I assure you Driver, if the current offer is voted in, the 4th line of maint will in fact be gone some time in the future, read the contract for Gods sake, please.

You must have a bad memory, read the integration agreement of 2012 that Louie Keys signed that had to do getting the forth line , with the arbitration decision and you know it. Because we had to do that to force the company's hand. So either you are lying or selective memory, which is it. Also I said they would've given us the extension not to push the fourth line and you know it. Earlier in negotiations they also offered a fifth line in exchange for guys to be moved from Hangar Ron in Dallas to the fifth C check line, plus they would've had to hire some more guys. So which is it Swamt bad selective memory or lying on your part?

 

[B737 driver]

Do you have any documents to either prove or disprove that there were or weren't must haves?

Either you swamt or driver?

 

[B737 driver]

Do you have any documents to either prove or disprove that there were or weren't must haves?

Either you swamt or driver?

I posted the Transition agreement that he forgot about

 

[WeAAsles]

I posted the Transition agreement that he forgot about

Well to me if you can post links that show facts you win the debate.

It's really that simple. Sorry swamt.

 

[B737 driver]

Well to me if you can post links that show facts you win the debate.

It's really that simple. Sorry swamt.

Back to how AMFA got into SWA, and history of AMFA now only doing full section 6. Swamt you remember what triggered the card drive back in 2002/ 2003 guys felt ignored by the Teamsters, and they took care of the UPS mechanics, and told us, next contract we will take care of you guys. Well we bought into AMFA promises of transparency, and democratic union. And after the AMFA fiasco ar Northwest they only did extensions. Then the 2009 contract they recommend a No vote, but we voted it in. AMFA basically had to save face at SWA airlines proving themselves to the industrial unions and the industry . They had the AMFA card drive at American in 2012,- same time our contract became due, so they couldn't just do an extension. So we are where we are at Weeezzz. Hey how the road shows going in Dallas?

 

[swamt]

"Some only see the $$$" but you keep talking about how you want full retro? You're not sounding much different if you keep focusing on that.

Tell you the truth I highly doubt that the Company is ever going to offer you full retro. I'm being honest and calling it as I see it.

SWA Management doesn't play ball the same way they used to in the past.

Then I will be a no vote, simple as that...

 

[swamt]

Well to me if you can post links that show facts you win the debate.

It's really that simple. Sorry swamt.

Actually his original post made it read as if we went to arbitration with our contract nego's NOT the 4th line. I was rejecting the fact the made it sound as it was the contract. Yes the 4th line did have to go to arbitration and we won that one.
As far as providing documentations; I have seen them and yes even have some of the very first passes from the company to the union with those "must haves" listed with the offer of and extension. The company kept wanting to call it an extension and the union always called it an extension with changes only the company wanted, and that wasn't going to happen. AMFA was on board with doing a true extension, keep all language the same and we'll except the typical 3% each year of the contract, simple as that, but company refused to do so, they were demanding language changes, work rule changes, with only a mere lower than COLA raise to go with them. no way. As far as the documents, no one can post them, they have been instructed not too as a request by the nego cmte. However, with that said, and before anybody gets on a "transparency" wagon, we were shown all these "must haves" and offers being slid across the table numerous times at our monthly meetings as well as updates given during contract meeting updates after the offers were produced. BTW weez, the original 5 "must haves" after 4-5 years of nego, suddenly turned into 7 "must haves" way late in the ball game. Now you see what the nego's are dealing with. The company is nego likes it's all for the company and they won't move. Then so be it, guess we will be another 5 years. I will not jump on what the company is trying so desperately to sell us, and all of a sudden they want a contract so quickly now trying to rush this out to the membership to gage what they need to do to get a contract done. Our nego team has already told them what it will take and they won't move, so here we sit...

 

[WeAAsles]

Then I will be a no vote, simple as that...

You're within your right to vote however you feel best suites you if you ever get something to vote on quite honestly. And hopefully before you retire I need to add.

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually his original post made it read as if we went to arbitration with our contract nego's NOT the 4th line. I was rejecting the fact the made it sound as it was the contract. Yes the 4th line did have to go to arbitration and we won that one.
As far as providing documentations; I have seen them and yes even have some of the very first passes from the company to the union with those "must haves" listed with the offer of and extension. The company kept wanting to call it an extension and the union always called it an extension with changes only the company wanted, and that wasn't going to happen. AMFA was on board with doing a true extension, keep all language the same and we'll except the typical 3% each year of the contract, simple as that, but company refused to do so, they were demanding language changes, work rule changes, with only a mere lower than COLA raise to go with them. no way. As far as the documents, no one can post them, they have been instructed not too as a request by the nego cmte. However, with that said, and before anybody gets on a "transparency" wagon, we were shown all these "must haves" and offers being slid across the table numerous times at our monthly meetings as well as updates given during contract meeting updates after the offers were produced. BTW weez, the original 5 "must haves" after 4-5 years of nego, suddenly turned into 7 "must haves" way late in the ball game. Now you see what the nego's are dealing with. The company is nego likes it's all for the company and they won't move. Then so be it, guess we will be another 5 years. I will not jump on what the company is trying so desperately to sell us, and all of a sudden they want a contract so quickly now trying to rush this out to the membership to gage what they need to do to get a contract done. Our nego team has already told them what it will take and they won't move, so here we sit...

I'm sorry swamt but it's way too convenient to say that you were asked not to produce offers made to your Union over 5 years ago that were turned down anyway.

Driver was able to produce proof.

And if your fellow Brothers and Sisters want to wait another 5 years that's completely up to them? There's always another Union out there waiting to pounce though if your Members are getting tired of "maybe" feeling like they are part of a Dictatorship.

(Again how much does SSM&P get paid per year)

 

[B737 driver]

I'm sorry swamt but it's way too convenient to say that you were asked not to produce offers made to your Union over 5 years ago that were turned down anyway.

Driver was able to produce proof.

And if your fellow Brothers and Sisters want to wait another 5 years that's completely up to them? There's always another Union out there waiting to pounce though if your Members are getting tired of "maybe" feeling like they are part of a Dictatorship.

(Again how much does SSM&P get paid per year)

Last year was $316,000 in attorney fees, so far this year AMFA 4 has paid $65,000 , I can not speak for Swamt AMFA 11, but I do know this can't go on forever, with nothing to vote on.

 

[WeAAsles]

Last year was $316,000 in attorney fees, so far this year AMFA 4 has paid $65,000 , I can not speak for Swamt AMFA 11, but I do know this can't go on forever, with nothing to vote on.

Like I said. I like Leaders, not Dictators. Eventually there comes a time where a true Leader will put his trust and faith in the people he leads. Not allowing you to vote smacks of cowardice. Fear that those Negotiators have no faith in themselves more than anyone else.

You should be allowed to vote after all these very long years. And if it's a complete BS offer let the Membership give Mr Kelly and Co. and huge up yours.

 

[B737 driver]

I

Like I said. I like Leaders, not Dictators. Eventually there comes a time where a true Leader will put his trust and faith in the people he leads. Not allowing you to vote smacks of cowardice. Fear that those Negotiators have no faith in themselves more than anyone else.

You should be allowed to vote after all these very long years. And if it's a complete BS offer let the Membership give Mr Kelly and Co. and huge up yours.

It comes down to this, these road shows are to inform us, why they feel they can't bring this to a vote.The members will voice their opinions and the four ALRS will have to decide to listen whatever the membership wants, or will they continue on the same path of a stalemate, only time will tell. Does AMFA survive long term or not, who knows.

 

[swamt]

Get a clue dude. I will not produce anything that may or may not hurt the membership, period.
BTW, Why have we not heard anything from the membership, after the road shows in Dallas that everything is in chaos? I feel much better now after the info meeting in Dallas. We will wait untill the company moves.

 

[B737 driver]

Get a clue dude. I will not produce anything that may or may not hurt the membership, period.
BTW, Why have we not heard anything from the membership, after the road shows in Dallas that everything is in chaos? I feel much better now after the info meeting in Dallas. We will wait untill the company moves.

You produce, that's interesting, so tell me in reality do you really think people will sit another 2 to 5 years without a raise in pay or a contract to vote on, and this union survive without a challenge in representation. Or do we get to an impass for the company final offer not accept it, and get to self help.You say you feel better, really?

 

[B737 driver]

Get a clue dude. I will not produce anything that may or may not hurt the membership, period.
BTW, Why have we not heard anything from the membership, after the road shows in Dallas that everything is in chaos? I feel much better now after the info meeting in Dallas. We will wait untill the company moves.

So do you think we will ever come to an agreement, or will we be like Northwest, not talking a strike, and go 10 years without a pay raise, like when they had the IAM, because that would really suck, because you never get that time back.