Wisconsin

[dapoes]

It's disturbing how easily you laugh things like this off. I guess as long as it's happening to someone else, it's okay, in your mind?

Its disturbing why you choose to ignore this glaring admission...from post #81

National Education Association’s retiring top lawyer,
Bob Chanin, speaking at the NEA’s annual meeting in July, 2009:

“Despite what some among us would like to believe
it is not because of our creative ideas.
It is not because of the merit of our positions.
It is not because we care about children
and it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child.
NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power.”

“And we have power because there are more than 3.2 million people
who are willing to pay us hundreds of millions of dollars in dues each year,
because they believe that we are the unions that can most effectively represent them,
the unions that can protect their rights and advance their interests as education employees.”

“This is not to say that the concern of NEA and its affiliates with closing achievement gaps,
reducing dropout rates, improving teacher quality and the like are unimportant or inappropriate.
To the contrary. These are the goals that guide the work we do.
But they need not and must not be achieved at the expense of due process, employee rights and collective bargaining.
That simply is too high a price to pay.”



​

 

[Kev3188]

Its disturbing that all this outrage would be almost non existent if there was no union involved. Its also disturbing how you seem to ignore the unhinged behavior of the unions over this.

Unhinged? One or two people out of hundreds of thousands collectively? C'mon. As I have stated repeatedly, both sides have been overwhelmingly peaceful. No matter how bad you or Fox News wants to gin up a story about citizens gone berzerk, it's just not occurring.

Its disturbing why you choose to ignore this glaring admission...from post #81

He has a point. Numbers=power. That same power is precisely what the Koch Bros., Armey, and their waterboys like Walker are trying to usurp.

 

[Kev3188]

Yes. Had to keep out the WI non citizens (bus'd in) union goons out somehow.

There are people in WI from out of state. The vast majority are local.

 

[dapoes]

There are people in WI from out of state. The vast majority are local.

Wrong again Kev. Bused in Union goons from out of state, SEIU, etc. Hence the reason for all the unhinged behavior.

 

[dapoes]

Unhinged? One or two people out of hundreds of thousands collectively? C'mon. As I have stated repeatedly, both sides have been overwhelmingly peaceful. No matter how bad you or Fox News wants to gin up a story about citizens gone berzerk, it's just not occurring.

Citizens gone berzerk? No. Union shills and thugs...yes.

He has a point. Numbers=power. That same power is precisely what the Koch Bros., Armey, and their waterboys like Walker are trying to usurp.

So the union blatantly admitting that there sole purpose to exist is not for the benefit of the children but for their own power is somehow okay? Really Kev?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Okayyyyy then. Well if you took the time between drunken rants and researched a little you would know that Walker had plenty of experience negotiating with unions in the past an how futile the process was.

Overlooking for now "Drunken Rant" insult it seems one of his Republican Counterparts in New Jersey is having better luck with the NJEA. Perhaps not because of his "Experience" but perhaps his hard nosed approach and the willingness to act decisively.

"Experience" comes in two flavors. Does Scott Walker have say 20 years of REAL experience or does he have one year and 19 years of repetition of the same first years experience? It's a valid point and one that needs making. Governor Christie cut something like 800 million out of the NJ budget and about 799.99 million of it came right out of the NJEA's hide. He didn't mess with people's right to collective bargain, he used the tools at his disposal instead of being one.

Christie's move was simple. He asked for and was turned down by NJEA for IIRC a 3% contribution to health care and a very slight change in the pension plan. NJEA said no and Christie laid off the number of teachers required to get the savings he needed, prompting on NJEA leader to publicly pray for the death of a sitting governor.

This is why Gov. Christie is being looked at as Presidential material while Walker has his own citizens taking to the street in protest over his blatant attempt to take away collective bargaining rights. If you're a bad negotiator then what better way to win then have the legislature change the rules to the game. That's the move cowards make, not leaders.

Oh and just for the record, I wrote last nights post, then had 2 beers and went to bed. I would have hoped for a more original insult. Perhaps next time try Anarchist?????

 

[Kev3188]

Citizens gone berzerk? No. Union shills and thugs...yes.

(sigh)

last time: These protests are almost w/o exception peaceful. More people get cited at a single Badgers football game than have for these demonstrations. I know that may be an inconvenient truth for you, but that's just how it is.

So the union blatantly admitting that there sole purpose to exist is not for the benefit of the children but for their own power is somehow okay? Really Kev?

Taken in the context he meant it, he has a point. If the organization had, say, 1500 people, they wouldn't be nearly the force they are. It reflects a sad reality; people *don't* listen to them for their value as educators. They listen because it's such a large bloc.

 

[dapoes]

Overlooking for now "Drunken Rant" insult it seems one of his Republican Counterparts in New Jersey is having better luck with the NJEA. Perhaps not because of his "Experience" but perhaps his hard nosed approach and the willingness to act decisively.

"Experience" comes in two flavors. Does Scott Walker have say 20 years of REAL experience or does he have one year and 19 years of repetition of the same first years experience? It's a valid point and one that needs making. Governor Christie cut something like 800 million out of the NJ budget and about 799.99 million of it came right out of the NJEA's hide. He didn't mess with people's right to collective bargain, he used the tools at his disposal instead of being one.

Christie's move was simple. He asked for and was turned down by NJEA for IIRC a 3% contribution to health care and a very slight change in the pension plan. NJEA said no and Christie laid off the number of teachers required to get the savings he needed, prompting on NJEA leader to publicly pray for the death of a sitting governor.

This is why Gov. Christie is being looked at as Presidential material while Walker has his own citizens taking to the street in protest over his blatant attempt to take away collective bargaining rights. If you're a bad negotiator then what better way to win then have the legislature change the rules to the game. That's the move cowards make, not leaders.

Oh and just for the record, I wrote last nights post, then had 2 beers and went to bed. I would have hoped for a more original insult. Perhaps next time try Anarchist?????

There are distinct differences in the situations in WI and what Christie had to deal with. Scott Walker doesn't have the luxury of time either. If you were more informed you would also know that Walker will be doing the same thing that Christie did when unions failed to negotiate. He laid off teachers and gov employees.

 

[dapoes]

(sigh)

last time: These protests are almost w/o exception peaceful. More people get cited at a single Badgers football game than have for these demonstrations. I know that may be an inconvenient truth for you, but that's just how it is.





Taken in the context he meant it, he has a point. If the organization had, say, 1500 people, they wouldn't be nearly the force they are. It reflects a sad reality; people *don't* listen to them for their value as educators. They listen because it's such a large bloc.

So this has nothing to the benefit of what really matters anymore. The kids. It's all about union power and influence. Thanks for finally reality check.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Ah..............the peaceful. loving nature of "Union Thugs" and the cops who protect them !

http://unhypnotize.com/alternative-news-media/50718-policeman-helps-union-thug-get-away-after-assaulting-tea-party-protester.html

Throughout the history of the American Labor Movement there has been a history of violence which as a good Libertarian I denounce.

However when one chooses to take a look at the cause of the union thuggery we find that many if not most times it was in response to what I'll call "Corporate/Government Thuggery". No place in our history is this more easily observed then the struggle of Appalachian coal miners.

For YEARS miners were shot and killed by company "Gun Thugs" who were often from the Baldwin-Felts Agency, hired by the coal operators. These so-called "detectives" used an organized effort to intimidate and kill miners seeking to be paid in US Currency instead of company script, to have safe conditions so that they didn't die at the rate of one per day and higher.

It was only after many years that the miners took up arms shortly after WWI and began to fight back. The battle of Blair Mountain brought the issues to the fore as for the first time in US history a sitting President had to call out Federal Troops to separate roughly 3000 armed miners who were prepared to square off and do battle with 4,000 WV State Police, local LEO's and the here to fore mentioned "Baldwin's" and other fun thugs hire by the coal operators.

So while "Union Thuggery" has no place in modern society, old attitudes die hard and the unions have had the lesson of fear & intimidation taught to them far more than the other way 'round. I am not unsympathetic to union causes, however when they initiate force for me it blunts their message and drowns out the points that need making.

For the record, I was "interviewed" to become a strikebreaker during the 1974 Brookside struggle that ended up being the documentary Harlan County USA. The pay was $512.00 per week plus over time. My primary qualification was that I'm 6'2", 235lbs and worked as a bouncer in a strip club. That kind of money was a fortune to a 20 year old in 1974 and I said "No thank you, my Daddy was a Teamster and he told me to never cross a picket line". Watch that documentary BEFORE you condemn, it's an eye opener.

 

[dapoes]

Throughout the history of the American Labor Movement there has been a history of violence which as a good Libertarian I denounce.

However when one chooses to take a look at the cause of the union thuggery we find that many if not most times it was in response to what I'll call "Corporate/Government Thuggery". No place in our history is this more easily observed then the struggle of Appalachian coal miners.

For YEARS miners were shot and killed by company "Gun Thugs" who were often from the Baldwin-Felts Agency, hired by the coal operators. These so-called "detectives" used an organized effort to intimidate and kill miners seeking to be paid in US Currency instead of company script, to have safe conditions so that they didn't die at the rate of one per day and higher.

It was only after many years that the miners took up arms shortly after WWI and began to fight back. The battle of Blair Mountain brought the issues to the fore as for the first time in US history a sitting President had to call out Federal Troops to separate roughly 3000 armed miners who were prepared to square off and do battle with 4,000 WV State Police, local LEO's and the here to fore mentioned "Baldwin's" and other fun thugs hire by the coal operators.

So while "Union Thuggery" has no place in modern society, old attitudes die hard and the unions have had the lesson of fear & intimidation taught to them far more than the other way 'round. I am not unsympathetic to union causes, however when they initiate force for me it blunts their message and drowns out the points that need making.

For the record, I was "interviewed" to become a strikebreaker during the 1974 Brookside struggle that ended up being the documentary Harlan County USA. The pay was $512.00 per week plus over time. My primary qualification was that I'm 6'2", 235lbs and worked as a bouncer in a strip club. That kind of money was a fortune to a 20 year old in 1974 and I said "No thank you, my Daddy was a Teamster and he told me to never cross a picket line". Watch that documentary BEFORE you condemn, it's an eye opener.

So in your view, the ends justify the means? It is true that there was a time that organized labor served as protection for the blue collar worker. But those times are no longer. Especially when it comes to public employees who live off the tax payers dime.

 

[Kev3188]

So this has nothing to the benefit of what really matters anymore. The kids. It's all about union power and influence. Thanks for finally reality check.

It's fun when you put words in my mouth...

No, as I noted, it's a sad testament to what we now value as a society. We should be focused on what we demand from educators, and the value we get in return instead of the stale rhetoric about how overpaid they are. And again, in the context within which he intended he has a point; no one would listen to them if the group was small. That's the reality of how far we've slipped as a nation, IMO.

 

[dapoes]

It's fun when you put words in my mouth...

No, as I noted, it's a sad testament to what we now value as a society. We should be focused on what we demand from educators, and the value we get in return instead of the stale rhetoric about how overpaid they are. And again, in the context within which he intended he has a point; no one would listen to them if the group was small. That's the reality of how far we've slipped as a nation, IMO.

It is a sad testament that conversation is what should be good for the overpaid public employees and not the kids. But as noted in that video from the teachers union...

It's not about the kids. It's about the unions power and political (and illegal) influence.

 

[Kev3188]

It is absolutely about the lack of respect educators get from society. Look at the way you couldn't help but use the term "overpaid" in your last post. Tell us: What do you think a teacher should make, given the importance of their job to this nation's future?

 

[dapoes]

It is absolutely about the lack of respect educators get from society. Look at the way you couldn't help but use the term "overpaid" in your last post. Tell us: What do you think a teacher should make, given the importance of their job to this nation's future?

Good teachers are worth every penny they deserve. But unfortunately because of the teachers unions you have subpar teachers churning out subpar students on premium pay on the tax payers dime. That's why I never enrolled my daughter in a public school. I would rather spend my own money on an educator who is accountable to me not a union.