Will Oneworld lose JAL?

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Yep, JAL is gone.Good Job Gerry!



Lifted this from another site.



American disappoints Maehara
Kyodo News
Transport minister Seiji Maehara said Thursday he expected a more positive explanation the day before from the executives of American Airlines Inc. on the merits of the U.S. carrier forging capital ties with cash-strapped Japan Airlines Corp.

"American promoted itself to a certain extent, but it spent most of the time explaining why JAL cannot partner with Delta," Maehara said of his meeting with American Chief Executive Officer Gerald Arpey. "To be honest, I wish they had given us a slightly more forward-looking explanation."
The government will carry out a closer analysis on the feasibility of a partnership between JAL and rival Delta Air Lines Inc. in view of whether the two companies would be granted antitrust immunity, he said.
American has offered to invest up to $1.1 billion with global oneworld alliance members and U.S. private-equity firm TPG to block JAL's defection to the rival SkyTeam grouping led by Delta.

American executives have argued vehemently that Delta and JAL would not be granted antitrust immunity because they would hold a share of more than 60 percent in the Japan-U.S. market. Delta says the partnership would not face any regulatory hurdles.
The tug of war over JAL to tap into lucrative Asian routes hit a new level of intensity after Japan and the U.S. struck a landmark open skies accord to liberalize air traffic, which will pave the way for airlines in the two countries to work together more closely in scheduling and pricing.
Japan's largest airline, headed for its fourth annual loss in five years, is seeking financial support from a government-backed corporate turnaround body.
 
Time to seriously look at UAL if JAL is gone.

It's not about being the biggest, it's about having access and customers. NRT will expand the number of slots, but USA-based carriers won't get many (if any) of them as the USA-basesd airline total will fall from 28% of the slots to 25%.
You tell me what benefit other than NRT will UAL bring to table. I know it will bring debt and A big one!!!!
TWA didn't bring any big changes to AA route system you think that benefit AA investor!!!!!!
right now we should think how to control AA cost and give our men and women who gave so much for company survival a pay raise!!!!! For that AA waits for UA to go bankrupt less over heads or if not just wait theyll sell some of their slot that if all you looking for!!!!!
 
Are BA, IB, CX and other 1-world carriers as concerned as AA is about JAL leaving? I realize BA has an upcoming strike to worry about as well as integrating IB, and Finnair has labor problems too, but is the EU-Japan/Asia market just not important to these carriers?
I don't think so just BA and QF came out voicing their concerts but no else!!!!! CX is in Asia so that market is were they usually fly!!! BA/QF has a Asian market don't know how big is!!!!!!! AA needs JAL because they feed them AA feed JAL!!!!! AA's asian market is small they only have five cities they fly into NRT, Delhi, Shanghai, Beijing(2010) and Osaka or three countries!!!!!
 
I've said it a few times -- CX already provides greater access to "Asia" and if AA can get some guaranteed access to Haneda as a concession for DL/JL, that may ultimately prove to be more valuable than JL's feed. It's the LGA of Tokyo; NRT is more like ISP or SWF in terms of distance and connectivity to the rail networks....
 
I've said it a few times -- CX already provides greater access to "Asia" and if AA can get some guaranteed access to Haneda as a concession for DL/JL, that may ultimately prove to be more valuable than JL's feed. It's the LGA of Tokyo; NRT is more like ISP or SWF in terms of distance and connectivity to the rail networks....
Do you know where CX HQ is If DL gets JAL I would be asking for the HKG route from DL to have CONXS with CX!!!!! Down grade NRT!!!!! AA needs a feeder from Asia to have an asian HUB!!!!!
 
If Delta is able to persuade or threaten JAL enough for it to switch to Skyteam, they should not be granted antitrust immunity until an open skies treaty is in force between the US and Japan, if ever. The sheer size of that monster would make it anticompetitive.
 
Uh, there is an open skies treaty between US and JP.

It was signed two weeks ago...

But you're right about the size of their combined operation. It makes BA/AA pale in comparison.
 
If Delta is able to persuade or threaten JAL enough for it to switch to Skyteam, they should not be granted antitrust immunity until an open skies treaty is in force between the US and Japan, if ever. The sheer size of that monster would make it anticompetitive.


Uh, there is an open skies treaty between US and JP.

It was signed two weeks ago...

But you're right about the size of their combined operation. It makes BA/AA pale in comparison.
It depends on route system!!!!! Now AA know how it feel to be on the other side!!!!!! Ask Virgin why they're so troubled by AA/BA!!!! AA doesn't have as many asian routes as DL(NW) basically what DL got from NW a NRT HUB. AA's HUB in Europe is in LHR!!!!! The only USA carrier that has a presents in LHR is UA and guess who has a hub in NRT!!!! whatever happens with JAL. AA/BA will get approval from the DOT and they will because its not a big monopoly because you have UA, DL and VA to compete with AA N BA. I don't think that they compete heavily against each other because they're in the same alliance. AA will gain more with the approval AA N BA because they get more access to european routes that they don't go to!!!!
The lost of JAL would be big because of their route from NRT!!!!! AA would loss the access that JAL has to those asian routes!!!!! The lost of their gateway to asia that's what NRT is to AA with JAL!!!! CX offers same but AA doesn't have access to HKG for the feed from CX same goes for CX!!!!!!
This a piece of an article from Airwise.com
" At the same time JAL is being courted by American Airlines and Delta Air Lines. The US carriers have made rival offers of financial aid, keen to gain a greater foothold in Japan and access to JAL's network to the rest of Asia." For the full article:
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1261653815.html
 
1) CO, US, and DL all have offered nonstop service from their hubs to LHR since April 1 2008.
2) There isn't an Open Skies treaty between the US and HKG, but there are enough dormant frequencies for US carriers that AA could start flying there tomorrow from ORD and maybe LAX or DFW if they really wanted to.

3) There are some key differences between AA/BA and DL/JL...
  • DL/JL would carry nearly 60 percent of U.S.-Tokyo passengers
  • AA/BA would carry about 44 percent of the passengers between the U.S. and London (25% less than JL/DL)
  • DL/JL would carry more than 60 percent of the passengers between the
    U.S. and Japan
  • AA/BA would carry about 40 percent of the passengers between the U.S.
    and the United Kingdom (30% less than JL/DL)
  • DL/JL would have a monopoly in 73% of their nonstop markets
  • AA/BA would have a monopoly in 22% of their current nonstop markets (30% fewer monopoly markets)

Those are verifiable facts, Merv. And some huge variances.
 
1) CO, US, and DL all have offered nonstop service from their hubs to LHR since April 1 2008.
2) There isn't an Open Skies treaty between the US and HKG, but there are enough dormant frequencies for US carriers that AA could start flying there tomorrow from ORD and maybe LAX or DFW if they really wanted to.

3) There are some key differences between AA/BA and DL/JL...
  • DL/JL would carry nearly 60 percent of U.S.-Tokyo passengers
  • AA/BA would carry about 44 percent of the passengers between the U.S. and London (25% less than JL/DL)
  • DL/JL would carry more than 60 percent of the passengers between the
    U.S. and Japan
  • AA/BA would carry about 40 percent of the passengers between the U.S.
    and the United Kingdom (30% less than JL/DL)
  • DL/JL would have a monopoly in 73% of their nonstop markets
  • AA/BA would have a monopoly in 22% of their current nonstop markets (30% fewer monopoly markets)

Those are verifiable facts, Merv. And some huge variances.
Whatever happen to UA hub in NRT and don't forget ANA hub!!!!!
Which markets(cities) would that be in!!!!! I know it wont be NYC area and CALI you got CO and ANA!!!! right now JAL only goes to 4 American cities they are all majors!!!!! ANA has 5 American cites also all majors!!!!! like ANA and UA control NRT market out of DC and maybe ORD!!!! the same can be said DFW IAH DTW MSP SEA and ATL to NRT they're controlled by their major carriers!!!! the same can be said about ANA and UAL right they code share they're in the same alliance!!!!!! That's why I believe AA/BA will be easily approved because the most the markets they go are major markets!!! Their pricing will be unfair due less competition but will bring price control to those cities!!!! Meaning both BA/AA and if in future DL/JAL united under same alliance!!!!! They actually bring prices up for paxs instead of charging 200 O.W. to LHR they'll charge 500 O.W. for their cheapest seats thats an example!!!!! HKG is part of china so they'll need approval from their DOT it wont be easy. it was hard enough to get the current cities that AA has imagine HKG!!!!!! AA entered a lottery for the current routes to china that the chinese government gave the USA!!!! USA wanted more access to HKG and the major chinese cities because the airlines know that will bring $$$$$$$!!!!! Don't forget JAL future as the biggest JP airline will change after bankruptcy!!!!!
But all this would work if the partners work together not to compete with each other!!!!!! consumers are will to pay if not they travel to get cheaper tickets!!!! I met few people that have done it!!!!!
 
Would it be wise for American to bid on "near bankrupt" airline..

Here's the JAL link:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/jal-sinks...ghai-2009-12-30
Depends on when they give the investment they'll loose it unless it's loan. All depends on the bankruptcy laws in Japan. If they don't liquidate. It would be good investment because of the access that is gained by being partners!! The asian market is a big one because of the business that goes on over there and that doesn't include a big traveling public.
 
Will AA and Delta still pursue this venture if JAL goes Domestic with ANA picking up all the International routes?

JAL May Become Domestic Carrier

Read it Here
 

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