Will Oneworld lose JAL?

[jimntx]

If JAL becomes strictly a domestic carrier, it would be useless to AA. There's just not that much traffic anymore between Wichita Falls and Aomori.

What makes that article particularly interesting is that ANA used to have an exclusive U.S. codeshare with AA (when they first started flying to LAX from Japan). Now, from what I can determine, their only U.S. codeshare is with US Airways. Did we make one of those canny strategic moves and dump ANA for JAL? I don't know the history.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Now, from what I can determine, their only U.S. codeshare is with US Airways.

ANA is in the Star Alliance. UA/CO/LH have an application pending to add ANA to their little ATI group.

Jim

 

[eolesen]

What makes that article particularly interesting is that ANA used to have an exclusive U.S. codeshare with AA (when they first started flying to LAX from Japan). Now, from what I can determine, their only U.S. codeshare is with US Airways. Did we make one of those canny strategic moves and dump ANA for JAL? I don't know the history.

The NH codeshare was beyond NRT as I recall and intended to feed pax onto AA's DFW-NRT flights.

NH was on track to joining Star Alliance about the time oneworld was formed.

 

[MERV]

Will AA and Delta still pursue this venture if JAL goes Domestic with ANA picking up all the International routes?

JAL May Become Domestic Carrier

Read it Here

JAL still will be valuable for one reason their DOM I believe includes their asian network. DL could still keep their Hub status because DL wants it for few reasons either for reducing capacity or killing their asian network or complementing their asian network. AA wants JAL because their major gateway to asia is NRT because of AA's frequency to NRT. simply put its their biggest asian route. AA uses JAL as feeder in asia and JAL uses AA as feeder in US mainly from their major gateways like JFK SFO LAX and ORD to AA's USA network. If JAL goes DOM they own those slots in NRT so they could lease them to AA. Perfect example AF/KL are leasing few slot in LHR to DL. DL bought the NYC route from UA but they could only get slots in LWG. Thats why AA had LWG slot because of DL to be able to compete against them but DL got the slot from AF/KL. Load factor were poor so they drop it. This happen post open-skies deal between EU & US. AA and JAL could code share their US and Asia routes if they deiced to become DOM. AA would gain new customers from JAL code share. JAL would still have access to the US market by the code share. A few member of One World would gain from it because that would be JAL's international Network. If not its no good at all for any carrier unless certain amount customers would travel on JAL to connect with the other carrier. Also depend what service(routes) they would end internationally.

 

[eolesen]

One simple reason your hypothesis above won't work -- slots in Japan can't be traded or sold.

If JL loses their route authorities, they will lose the slots to NH on a one for one basis.

As I understand it, the proposed changes would essentially kill off JAL as it existed prior to 2001 when they merged with Japan Air System (JAS). JAS became JAL Domestic in 2004, and that name was dropped in 2006.

 

[MERV]

One simple reason your hypothesis above won't work -- slots in Japan can't be traded or sold.

If JL loses their route authorities, they will lose the slots to NH on a one for one basis.

As I understand it, the proposed changes would essentially kill off JAL as it existed prior to 2001 when they merged with Japan Air System (JAS). JAS became JAL Domestic in 2004, and that name was dropped in 2006.

How about leasing the slots because the routes are owned by Japanese government for Japanese own carriers?

If their government decide's to take JAL's routes, I hope its not asian routes because than they'll be worthless to both sides meaning AA and one world or DL and sky team.
I read other articles theirs no mention on what routes. ANA is the one lobbying for that because they want the routes. If that happens ANA and star alliance would basically have a bigger share of the asian market if they get ATI. If their government does that they'll kill JAL off because some of those routes are the money makers. I feel for their employees they gave up so much for the government to come in an take it away.

UA has a HUB in NRT anyone knows if its same as when they were the largest carrier of world?

You'll see AA start looking and lobbying US DOT to get new routes to asia, if all fails. Mainly to the HUB cities were one their alliance partner is locate at. To much code sharing get you into this mess.

 

[eolesen]

Merv... Carriers can't trade, barter, lease, sell, or promise slots assigned to them. The government owns the slots.

I don't know how much clearer I can state this... If NH gets their route authorities, it's unlikely that JL would be allowed to keep the corresponding slots and operate more domestic flights...

Also, there's not much that the US DOT can try to get from the Japanese that they don't already have. DL and UA get to operate fifth freedom flights from NRT.

It's quite unlikely they'd allow AA or CO the same flexibility without a huge concession on the US's part, which is to allow NH cabotage rights (the right to fly and carry local traffic between two US cities). Unions see cabotage as more of a threat than codesharing.

If the Japanese transport ministers determine that there isn't enough support for two Japanese flag carriers, then that's their call to make. Same thing happened in Canada, and the same has pretty much happened in France and Germany (AF and LH have absorbed their overseas competition over the past 10 years). The US is the only country that seems to support more than two flag carriers, and even that's questionable these days.

 

[AirwAr]

JAL president favors Delta Alliance. I understood that the government favored Delta, but I thought that the JAL management favored AA. Is AA jinxed?

JAL against bankruptcy, favors Delta offer: report

 

[Hopeful]

JAL president favors Delta Alliance. I understood that the government favored Delta, but I thought that the JAL management favored AA. Is AA jinxed?

JAL against bankruptcy, favors Delta offer: report

Maybe if the employees of AA voluntarily give another $1B in concessions, AA and its partner can up the offer to $2B..

Cmon guys and girls...Whatdya say?

Cmon, one more for the team!

 

[Bob Owens]

Let them have it. China is where the growth is.

Isnt it amazing how a bankrupt airline can buy up one airline and invest a billion in another? Isnt it great to be a corporation in America where your workers can't strike, even after Judges impose paycuts on them, you can 'not' pay your bills and then buy up everything in sight and essentailly make your workers pay for it!

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

I don't often agree with you Bob, but I certainly agree with your sentiments here. I think it's ridiculous that Delta is trying to take a bit of JAL while it's still digesting Northwest and getting back on its feet after bankruptcy. Why are Delta's new mangaing shareholders allowing this? The company doesn't have enough cash lying around to throw a billion dollars at another airline, especially after its creditors went unpaid. By doing this Delta is taking unfair advantage of the fact that AMR has honored its obligations instead of shedding them through the courts.

 

[limit]

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...33_FORTUNE5.htm

 

[Hopeful]

I don't often agree with you Bob, but I certainly agree with your sentiments here. I think it's ridiculous that Delta is trying to take a bit of JAL while it's still digesting Northwest and getting back on its feet after bankruptcy. Why are Delta's new mangaing shareholders allowing this? The company doesn't have enough cash lying around to throw a billion dollars at another airline, especially after its creditors went unpaid. By doing this Delta is taking unfair advantage of the fact that AMR has honored its obligations instead of shedding them through the courts.

It's the Corporate America Way!

 

[FWAAA]

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...33_FORTUNE5.htm

AA disputes the accuracy of such reports:

American is denying weekend reports that it will likely lose its partnership with Japan Air Lines.

"Today's news accounts reporting that JAL has chosen an alliance partner are inaccurate and misleading," said American spokesman Charley Wilson.

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/1065...E&cm_ite=NA

JAL is about to implode anyway, so if it goes to skyteam, DL can be disappointed when its international routes (and slots) are given to ANA (NH).

 

[eolesen]

AA may be disputing the accuracy of last week's reports. The blurb in CNN is attributed to yesterday's evening news in Tokyo, and has different information, so it's possible it's accurate.

I agree about JL imploding slowly. HKG is a great alternative hub, and AA needs to move out of NRT and into HND as soon as they can to serve the domestic Japan market...