Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines
- Thread starter Socplat13
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Well, I'm reading the contract now. I don't have the exact link, but I'm sure it's on the the DL141 website.
From what I read, I think it will probably pass (by a slim margin). Much better than TA1. The only issue I have is the scope. Nothing said about the third tier stations, which may or may not get outsourced (Jeff said earlier that some of the smaller stations that only have a couple of employees wouldn't be worth the trouble to outsource). Also the PCE or ATO group is at the $50,000 level for the EO buyout. Not sure where the ramp level is. So people would probably take the early out or furlough if their station is vendored out. Express will remain in the hubs and some of the Tier Two stations (like CLE), till '18. I can't judge or comment on the medical till the enrollment period comes up (which will probably be in a couple of weeks). Company added more money to the "bonus" pool (another 40 million). Those are some of the highlights. The last highlight letter discusses how the Union will breakdown the "bonus" money. There are a few little things I have to find out about, I will read it a couple of times more to detail and address my concerns.
Nothing about the voting process though. I guess the next update will have info on the "road shows" to sell it. The other big issue still unresolved is the seniority. The Javits memo is there too, but no one will no their standing till after ratification. A lot of us on the sCO side (especially the Leads) what to know their situation and if there will be any loss of seniority in the classification.
From what I read, I think it will probably pass (by a slim margin). Much better than TA1. The only issue I have is the scope. Nothing said about the third tier stations, which may or may not get outsourced (Jeff said earlier that some of the smaller stations that only have a couple of employees wouldn't be worth the trouble to outsource). Also the PCE or ATO group is at the $50,000 level for the EO buyout. Not sure where the ramp level is. So people would probably take the early out or furlough if their station is vendored out. Express will remain in the hubs and some of the Tier Two stations (like CLE), till '18. I can't judge or comment on the medical till the enrollment period comes up (which will probably be in a couple of weeks). Company added more money to the "bonus" pool (another 40 million). Those are some of the highlights. The last highlight letter discusses how the Union will breakdown the "bonus" money. There are a few little things I have to find out about, I will read it a couple of times more to detail and address my concerns.
Nothing about the voting process though. I guess the next update will have info on the "road shows" to sell it. The other big issue still unresolved is the seniority. The Javits memo is there too, but no one will no their standing till after ratification. A lot of us on the sCO side (especially the Leads) what to know their situation and if there will be any loss of seniority in the classification.
Well one thing is for sure, some of the smaller stations will be gone. Rumors are flying all over the place about the number. First it was 45. Then it's 24. And I Also forgot about the little memo that if a station is vendored out, the District and the company would try "alternative methods" to see if they can agree to be cost competitive to retain the work. That poses a problem because most of the people working in Tier 3 stations are already topped out, and surely (unless they are near or at retirement age and want a side job) want to take a major pay and benefit cut. So I think those people see the writing on the wall (unless they are young enough to make a move) and want to get out. That's why when I last checked, PCE or ATO only needs 288 people to hit the $75,000 level for the EO.
mike33
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- Nov 7, 2007
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Some very important language there is that what ever they come up with to try and save from having to move or b3 furloughed, has to be approved by 2/3 of " The Votes Cast
Thats a very interesting concept of pitting employees against each other......
Tim Nelson
Veteran
They needed this language otherwise the union couldn't negotiate lower wages and lower benefits without a systemwide vote. The union will be contracting out jobs to itself because 66% will pass every time. Those that want to stay will agree to work for swissport wages, and those that decide to leave will be asked to vote yes anyways since they aren't sticking around.
Even the 23 stations have what is now a 'termination date'. Not only do they lose protections but the whole clause doesn't subject the company to the pay, benefits and working conditions of elsewhere in the TA [read the duration article, really bizarre language indeed]. I hope the IAM at least has a "Gone but not forgotten" farewell party for those 23 stations when they hit T minus Termination date. Hell, even a hub [CLE] has no scope and it only has 29 F gates!
The bottom line is only 7 stations have scope. Jet Job and Socopath was lying.
Yup.
That's what they are banking on. The Hubs (and the biggest stations) vs everything else. It will be a close vote, no doubt. What's going to be left, and how many people will take the Early Out now that they have seen the TA? PCE (ATO) is almost near their target for the 75K. I'm not sure of the Ramp and Stores. Also, sUA want their money as well, and more money is now in the bonus pool for the IAM to distrubute.
The question is what's going to happen in '16? And how much is going to be left?
mike33
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- Nov 7, 2007
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I dont see the 96% they were talking about......unless the 96% is made up of those seven protected stations?
That termination date you speak of sounds like the starting of a dreaded " B " scale so to speak.
JFK Fleet Service
Veteran
[quote name='T5towbar'']
The question is what's going to happen in '16?
[/quote]
Look no further than the contracted out sCO cargo centers.If there is language that allows outsourcing, expect it to be implemented.
The question is what's going to happen in '16?
[/quote]
Look no further than the contracted out sCO cargo centers.If there is language that allows outsourcing, expect it to be implemented.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Mike, they told us that almost 100% was protected when usair got the 1999 no furlough seniority protections. Its still in the contract today. The 96% is a reference to seniority displacement protections, not scope. Basically, seniority protections allow the member a right to displace to another station.
You are right about the new b scale.
Here is my take on everything going on in the industry. Every airline continues to try and outsource work. This includes DL, AA, UA, SW and US. This isn't even about getting rid of non-profitable cities, it is just trying to squeeze more profits off our backs. The solution is for people to take the time to educate all employees of where this will end up if this trend continues. All of the airlines will end up with employees in only 5-10 stations. Arguing and blaming Unions and their leaders will still get this end result. 20-30 Union leaders are not who should be explaining this to employees, it needs to start with grass roots groups who speak positively to other employees to teach them where this is going to end up. Don't get me wrong, i think our leaders need to take part in this but in the end more people need to take this challenge and do something positive to save us from ourselves and our attitude of it's not my responsibility, it's that guy who we elected.
Another solution is for non-organized employees of these outsource companies to be organized. If our companies can't outsource our work to un-organized companies that can only help our cause. This political infighting must stop or our jobs will be lost one by one. Take the time to educate your fellow worker on where we are headed if we don't get a grasp on this corporate strategy of profits at everyone elses expense.
saywhat
Another solution is for non-organized employees of these outsource companies to be organized. If our companies can't outsource our work to un-organized companies that can only help our cause. This political infighting must stop or our jobs will be lost one by one. Take the time to educate your fellow worker on where we are headed if we don't get a grasp on this corporate strategy of profits at everyone elses expense.
saywhat
The solution is for our D-141 UA/CO Brothers/Sisters to vote NO on TA/2. A divide, replace, and water shed CBA for the rest of us below/above wing IAM Members. Sending a message to the IAM leadership like TN (alias/BROTHER DANGEROUS ) does could result in a REAL ! Industry Leading CBA being approved ? Third times a charm ? SOLIDARITY does not allow GREED and SELF PRESERVATION to be approved or tolerated !
That's going to be hard. People will be tired of waiting while the company keeps picking us off station by station or work area. This all about companies maximizing profits while the outsource companies undercut us as we'll. So it is a war on two fronts. Some people just want out, and 75k looks mighty good to some. I don't know if this TA will be turned down a second time..The vibe I'm feeling is that this TA may pass. Especially the senior agents, who will benefit the most from it. This mainly benefits sUA the most. Personally, I will be pretty much status quo in all of this. Not gaining much in this deal.
The money is what i'm in it for and this mom is voting for this TA. The one guy who keeps saying No is not in my shoes and he does not pay for my girls education and my bills. He can keep pushing his NO to everyone else but he will never be a United Airlines workers and deserves no platform to push his personal agenda of political ambition. I'm sick of this crap and 4 years is long enough I'm voting for ratification.
So you are all agitated that negotiations that were meant to being on improvements have taken four years (and counting) yet are content working under a concessionary agreement for nearly 12 years? Explain that. Tim is educating the membership, the DL wants this to pass ASAP so they can collect dues from sCO passenger service agents and UAL wants to integrate the operations. The nonsense the DL brought back to you guys is a joke as Tim has said, yet people like yourself defend it and chalk it up to be an excellent agreement. No one has yet provided specific examples of how Tim is dangerous to IAM members at UA, and when asked you avoid and ignore the questions.
Josh
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