Why no contract from the Association?

[conehead777]

The problem is most guys on the AA side are too busy crying for USAIR parity.
10 holidays, double time, more money and so on. They all lost track of the big picture of a true Industry Leading Contract. Many will not even look past the money and vacation articles of a TA. They will unknowingly allow scope to be sacrificed and probably not even pay attention to the IAMPF being thrown in there somewhere in the back section near the LOA's. Reducton in force, CS policy, reassignment of work, overtime rules, field trip rules, shift modification, training rules and many other important articles will be changed and we won't even look at them or consider them to be a no vote because we got the VC, OT doubletime and more money. They always say the devil is in the writing.

Your right I want 7 weeks of vc like UAl I do not want the holidays as comp time I want at least double and a half Hw . At least double time after the first 4 and second day off after wo5king your first day off I want what the pilots have for the 401k. No iampf . No more outsourcing other airlines have learned there getting shotty work from the contractors. Parker needs to learn that but he seems intent on outsourcing so we need to stand strong. Need to fight for the highest plus seven. Including ups FedEx swa not just the airlines that AA wants to compare to. No more back door deals from the association . We need the association to start communicating with us let us know what the ta language is. What the company hang ups are. everyone says we are the union. So let's start holding the union Intl and nc And the company to be accountable to us. So we need to get the association to work for us I do not see that now. They are out for there own interest . Just like the company is. We need to demand the union leaders work for us not the company. We need to start picketing and all legal means to get our story out there. I feel wearing the red t shirts carrying pickets signs at the airports headquarters. Even at the stockholders meetings. Then wearing them on aa property will be more visible.Why want the association that we're paying high dues to picket. I know why they want there in bed with the company . Plus on the iam side I hear they do not want to loose there insurance holidays etc . Iam I have a suggestion for you negotiate us the best contract that's better in the industry if you and the twu cannot do it your voted off the island. I will not vote for anything that has concessions. If I rember correctly that us air when they were talking to the aa unions that the iam contract was long over due . So that tells me a lot about Parker and the iam. To me it's not good. We all need to get off our rear ends and start making the association run like we want it to. And if they do not do what we want as member. Then us AMTS need to vote them off the property and get AMFA, amp are make our own union . I'm sick of paying union dues to these clowns and a non union delta has better pay sick time vacation etc . Yes they are at will my dad retired there he was always happy there. Yes they can cut there pay and benefits at will. But us a LAA had our union give back in 2004 and 2012 more then delta took. And they did it in two weeks. And it went into effect immediately. I rember it passed a few days before Good Friday and they resented guys who had been approved for ho. So with this's association we're pretty much at will employees . So to the association do your job.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

We all need to get off our rear ends and start making the association run like we want it to. And if they do not do what we want as member. Then us AMTS need to vote them off the property and get AMFA, amp are make our own union .

In the end that really is the problem isn't it?

If people really wanted them out or to hold them to a standard bad enough you would have seen changes long ago.

That is why I say changing UNIONs won't fix the problem.

I'm sick of paying union dues to these clowns and a non union delta has better pay sick time vacation etc . Yes they are at will my dad retired there he was always happy there. Yes they can cut there pay and benefits at will. But us a LAA had our union give back in 2004 and 2012 more then delta took. And they did it in two weeks. And it went into effect immediately. I rember it passed a few days before Good Friday and they resented guys who had been approved for ho. So with this's association we're pretty much at will employees.

It is very possible to have good pay and benefits from a non UNION employer. However the Association propaganda machine will do anything it can to convince members otherwise.

Speaking of propaganda I am sure WeAAsles will pop in here in about 3.... 2.... 1....

 

[OldGuy@AA]

i agree with conehead. No concessions.

 

[chilokie1]

I do not understand how you guys did not know about the restrictions the IAMNPF places upon your employment after retirement. I have known about that for over a year. It was covered in this very forum.

Perhaps you did not think the IAMNPF was a real threat back then and did not take it seriously.

Honestly I would have said something earlier but I thought you guys already knew. Again, it was already covered in this forum by someone else long ago.

I mentioned it many times shortly after the announcement of the ASS, but back then 700 & all the IAMPF apologists only wanted to talk about the AA plan being underfunded & the IAMPF being fully funded. Of course the the anti-IAMPF crowd was lumped together with the bitter AMFA supporters & TWU haters (much like Trump supporters were all racists, anti-feminists,
anti-this & anti-that). Typical lefty tactics, when you are on the wrong side of the facts you attack the messengers.

 

[1AA]

Just a thought for everyone to ponder on.
The next time you look at your EPays paycheck stub pay attention to the company 401K match portion.
That is the amount directly deposited into your personal account. The amount varies depending on hours worked including overtime and additional hours picked up. With the IAMPF it's a fixed contribution and we discussed how that amount is achieved.

With the IAMPF that will go away. The amount the company contributes goes to a slush fund account where you have no control of it in any way, shape or form until maybe the day you make a claim when you retire. Will you really know what that amount will be? I seriously doubt it. Again look at your EPays and you see exactly what you have in YOUR ACCOUNT.

HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY TO ALL
(on straight time thanks to the TWU.)

 

[Traymark]

The next time you look at your EPays paycheck stub pay attention to the company 401K match portion.
That is the amount directly deposited into your personal account.The amount varies depending on hours worked including overtime and additional hours picked up. With the IAMPF it's a fixed contribution and we discussed how that amount is achieved.

With the IAMPF that will go away. The amount the company contributes goes to a slush fund account where you have no control of it in any way, shape or form until maybe the day you make a claim when you retire.

These things cannot be emphasized enough.
The difference between a 401K and the IAMPF is so vast, it shouldn't even be in the conversation for LAA.

 

[anotherdelay]

These things cannot be emphasized enough.
The difference between a 401K and the IAMPF is so vast, it shouldn't even be in the conversation for LAA.

I'm definitely encouraged by this board, because it's coming the iampf, but before it comes, due diligence is going to have to be performed now. The books on the iampf will have to be opened, and the question will be asked who audited them and signed off on them (twu side).That said, enough people are going to ask why aren't we better off in the 401k anyway? We do need some iam guys though to finally speak up and say enough.

That said, the unmentionable on everything is the iampf, that's why I focus on it too, because it compromises everything in these negotiations, and will hold things up because the pension is toxic.

 

[1AA]

If I decide to collect full SS at 67 I can still work at AA. I can withdraw from my 401K after 59 1/2 without tax penalty. I can't collect my AA pension if I still work at AA. I think that's wrong since it's already frozen. With the IAMPF I can't collect a penny if I still work at AA or any related field. The IAMPF is replacing the 401K match which I can start withdrawing from. The IAMPF would be a source of income I can't collect unless I'm retired. The 401K is a source I can collect after 59 1/2 without penalty working at AA or not.
So the 401K match will boost my retirement which can be a deciding factor at what age to retire. Take that away I may have to work longer and can't touch the IAMPF until I reture. Am I making sense of this how bad the IAMPF is versus the 401K? Anyone care to add more senerios to this as to why the IAMPF is horrible?

 

[MetalMover]

Anyone care to add more senerios to this as to why the IAMPF is horrible?

It being a multi employer plan and not a single employer plan.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/pensio...eed-public-resources-to-survive/#6ed3e7cb6931

Looks like there are less PBGC guarantees vs the single employer plans.
So, it's no wonder why the company might prefer the IAMNPF. And the IAM wants TWU participation to keep it going.

 

[1AA]

It being a multi employer plan and not a single employer plan.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/pensio...eed-public-resources-to-survive/#6ed3e7cb6931

Looks like there are less PBGC guarantees vs the single employer plans.
So, it's no wonder why the company might prefer the IAMNPF. And the IAM wants TWU participation to keep it going.

A lower monthly payment for a multi versus single. Can anyone find a real good reason why the IAMPF is better than the 401K plan, single employer plan or any other plan out there?
Other than the IAMPF wants to steal our retirement money?

 

[WeAAsles]

It being a multi employer plan and not a single employer plan.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/pensio...eed-public-resources-to-survive/#6ed3e7cb6931

Looks like there are less PBGC guarantees vs the single employer plans.
So, it's no wonder why the company might prefer the IAMNPF. And the IAM wants TWU participation to keep it going.

"What if" (Like the Marvel comic book series) you had 10 years left to go at AA, you wound up living to 100 and the IAMPF actually never did have to make any more cuts to its payouts?

Would you reach a conclusion when your 401k runs out that "Oh man I wish I had taken that stupid crap when it was offered to me" ?

Getting away from the posters who have their Crystal balls already tuned up telling them a cut is an absolute surety.

 

[WeAAsles]

And don't forget I'm the one who posted the "Danger Will Robinson" funding letter on here not once, but twice.

Don't think a good salesman (As I've been accused of being) would share a letter like that if he really wanted to sell a product.

 

[Traymark]

If I lived to 150 , I still want my 401, my frozen AA pension and whatever SS I can collect over ANY value of an IAMPF in any way shape or form.

Just to make it clear,
There is no scenario, none, that I would choose the IAMPF over an enhanced 401K and whats left of my frozen AA pension. No scenario, period. Stop.


Just to add about the PBGC,
If our frozen AA pensions ever get thrown into that, we will ALL still get every penny as the PBGC covers pensions up to the 50K per year area, maybe a little more. Nobody at AA has pensions that were worth more than that.
The pilots were very worried because they had way more to lose, but, they got theirs.

 

[Kev3188]

If I decide to collect full SS at 67 I can still work at AA. I can withdraw from my 401K after 59 1/2 without tax penalty. I can't collect my AA pension if I still work at AA. I think that's wrong since it's already frozen. With the IAMPF I can't collect a penny if I still work at AA or any related field. The IAMPF is replacing the 401K match which I can start withdrawing from. The IAMPF would be a source of income I can't collect unless I'm retired. The 401K is a source I can collect after 59 1/2 without penalty working at AA or not.
So the 401K match will boost my retirement which can be a deciding factor at what age to retire. Take that away I may have to work longer and can't touch the IAMPF until I reture. Am I making sense of this how bad the IAMPF is versus the 401K? Anyone care to add more senerios to this as to why the IAMPF is horrible?

If you decide to leave AA, it's portable.

The money is in your account "right now."

If you kick off (God forbid) your designated heir(s) receive the money w/o the same penalties as the IAMNPF.

During the next industry downturn you won't see people breathlessly running around breakrooms harumphing about "saving the pension" at all costs.

You won't see Glass & Co. holding it over your collective heads like a sword of Damocles to get whatever items they want during the next talks.

Etc.

 

[WeAAsles]

If I lived to 150 , I still want my 401, my frozen AA pension and whatever SS I can collect over ANY value of an IAMPF in any way shape or form.

Just to make it clear,
There is no scenario, none, that I would choose the IAMPF over an enhanced 401K and whats left of my frozen AA pension. No scenario, period. Stop.


Just to add about the PBGC,
If our frozen AA pensions ever get thrown into that, we will ALL still get every penny as the PBGC covers pensions up to the 50K per year area, maybe a little more. Nobody at AA has pensions that were worth more than that.
The pilots were very worried because they had way more to lose, but, they got theirs.

How I see it unless the Company says otherwise it's going to be in all of our JCBA proposals.

If it's put in as no option and a full 401k Match loss. The TA goes down in flames

If it's offered as a mixture of the two. IAMPF and 401k match. It passes.

If it's offered as a choice of one or the other. It definitely passes.

Again I highly doubt you're not going to see it in some way shape or form in our JCBA's. So "I'M" going to keep doing my research on it and won't make ANY rash financial decisions based maybe on emotions alone.

And the PBGC is underfunded too by quite a few Billion. It's day of reckoning is coming.