Why no contract from the Association?

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

So would a industry leading JCBA but instead we got a screw(ing) driver.

What you got was a piece of American Airlines history.

I mean what better way to represent the last decade than a screwdriver.

It is a "symbolic" gift.

 

[1AA]

Everyone is asking for a industry leading contract. The union wants one, the members want one and the company said they want to give us one. But do we really know what an industry leading contract is?
Ask yourselves if a industry leading contract is just about money and parity with the USAir guys.
There is industry standard and industry leading. Which one do you really think we will eventually end up with?

Lets look at vacation. We want our six weeks back. Is six weeks industry leading or industry standard?

Lets look at holidays. Is ten holidays industry leading or industry standard?

Lets look at our holiday multiplier? Is it industry leading or industry standard?

Lets look at overtime multiplier. Is double time leading or industry standard?

Lets look at medical? Is our plan industry leading or industry standard?

Lets look at our 401k retirement plan? Is it industry leading or industry standard?

I think you see what I'm getting at. We need to focus on what we really mean by industry leading contract. Industry leading means just that. It has to be industry leading in every aspect.
If we get a industry standard contract then who are we to blame?
I seriously doubt we will even get a industry standard contract.

Look at some of the articles that are T/A'd or are being exchanged to be T/A'd.
Reduction in force and displacement. This was proposed or T/A'd by now. If you get displaced to a station that has an opening then the only way back would be to place yourself on the transfer list. Currently you have recall rights prior to any transfers. Does this sound like industry leading or at best industry standard? NO. If AA is the only airline that has recall over transfers then we are Industry leading on this issue. If we lose this in a JCBA then technically we do not have a industry leading contract.

Lets look at the 401k. We currently have a match of 5.5%. It may sound good to some but it is the worse of all three union negotiated plans. So here comes the issue with this plan. If the Association decides to sneak in the back door the IAMPF then we would lose the 401k match. By now most of us know how bad that pension is. 40 hour work week is all that gets contributed into the IAMPF. CS a day in that week and you lose 8 hours in the contribution. If you make it up the next week you will NOT get those contributable hours back. If you work overtime, pick up additional hours on a CSW, fieldtrip overtime, work a double you still will NOT pick up the extra contributable hours in your IAMPF. If you are a commuter then your screwed. With possible layoffs and more guys commuting less will go into the IAMPF. This plan is a downgrade from our current 401k plan. This does not qualify in any means as industry leading. This is a downgrade from industry standard. So what does the association and the company really mean by giving us a industry leading contract?

IAMPF is not industry leading.
Removal of recall priority is not industry leading.
Our current 401k plan is not industry leading.

How many other articles are there going to be that are not industry leading?
Are we just going to settle for five more holidays, double time, an extra weeks VC and
and a pay raise and forget about work rules? If one is that desperate for the money then we will
end up with exactly what we begged for.

INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT is just what both parties said they will give us.

Lets hold them accountable. Do you guys have it in you to do so?

 

[WeAAsles]

Right now under our contracts if you get laid off you're stuck under the Juniority system. So under Layoff rounds in the first round junior people may get to bump in to say DFW (Nice and cheap) but on the second round the more senior guys to the first bunch get stuck with JFK (Expensive as hell)

Now let's say you're right 1AA and if you get laid off you'll have to transfer back and recall is gone? Would getting rid of the Juniority system and going by a pure seniority bumping system (without the recall) be an improvement, a loss, or just a different way of doing things? (A compromise)

 

[Kev3188]

No RIF is a good thing, but the ideal recourse is to be able to bump wherever on the system your seniority can hold.

It also creates a cascade effect that companies tend to hate. This can often lead to carriers thinking twice before scaling back/shutting down a facility/point.

 

[anotherdelay]

Hey guys, I might be wrong about this, because we are going to get credits, from an underfunded now pension, where members like Nelson and Albert have gotten cuts. Maybe they will get re credited.



In the meantime, hopefully m/r, settles their contract first. Our side will blindly accept the iampf, which I believe because of shortfalls becomes the focus of negotiations ad infinitum the iampf, as probably is now.

Which also more makes us more or less defacto iam. Why should we have twu for ramp, if we are stuck funding iam officers generous multipliers. Same for M/R. Those 1 percenters probably won't suffer cuts. That said you M/R guys are more due diligent, and will give members like us the ability to go after the deep pockets aal, if our pensions are touched, and/or most likely will never unfrozen now, due to all the diligence issues with that pension scourge..

Why the TWU Intl does not release a statement, on the under funding and previous cuts to the iampf to fleet, to make the twu membership aware now, is a sin. Why the iam mechanics that have 20 years to go aren't making a stink for choice is also disheartening.

Also there are job cuts coming to no matter, wish it wasn't true, but its naive to think any other way, so the longer negotiations go on the better for everyone. I don't want to see the lav truck guys, catering, cargo lose. The outsourcing guy companies led by former AA execs are surrounding labor along with that pension. Throw in the h1 visa companies/ supplying some employees to them, and getting a cut of their wages. Ask a foreign outsource person, how they got their job.

Bob, there has to be something you guys can do, up to including younger iam mechanics to get the M/R work groups realize the iampf is the leverage the company can continuously use to squeeze the concessions from us. Talk to AMFA and get lawyers they trust to really open that pension mark to market, up. You guys are our best hope. The intl's are really impotent right now.


Due Diligence.

 

[WeAAsles]

No RIF is a good thing, but the ideal recourse is to be able to bump wherever on the system your seniority can hold.

It also creates a cascade effect that companies tend to hate. This can often lead to carriers thinking twice before scaling back/shutting down a facility/point.

I agree that pure seniority over juniority is the right thing from a purely Union perspective. But doing away with what we're used to in the TWU as far as recall would be very controversial.

But it is sort of like having your cake and wanting to eat it too. On the one hand you want pure seniority to bump (where to choose to work) and on the other hand you want to throw that in the trash to keep an advantage for getting back to where you were last or where you originally started.

Again VERY debatable issue.

 

[anotherdelay]

Also the company should also give us the holidays and double time everyone deserves now.

 

[WeAAsles]

"Due Diligence"

Josh

 

[swamt]

Here about after you retire and take another job

Unbelievable. Not only can you lose benefits for going back to work (even after retirement age) you can lose it if you decide to start your own business (self employed) that is just incredible. And my God, why in the world does a disabled worker get reduced to 15 days from the regular 30 of non-disabled people going back to work. Then, of all things, you have to ask the pension fund managers for permission to go back to work and they have to approve it. Holy $hite this is waaaaaayy worse that I thought it was. I do not understand why these restrictions would have to be in there except for the mere fact they are looking for ANY reasons to get out of paying as many as they can. Complete stupidity to put yourself in that position when you NEVER know what life will bring you. I know of 3 guys that will have to work until they die due to custody issues became full time for them all over again and they are in their 60's and 70's. The teamsters pension had that same restriction in it as well and it doesn't make sense. Thx for the info conehead, man, that was an eye opener for many I bet.

 

[swamt]

geez imagine if they go after the person for back pay, and then cut the benefit for life for violating it. This union pension is more chessy than a philly cheese steak.

Not only that, think about this. Some people do not know about these restrictions so imagine someone not even knowing and starts another job in same industry (because that's the industry he knows so well) the pension notify's him of his violations and no-reporting of new employment and disqualifies the persons pension benefits because they can per the language. That is FUBER!!!

 

[anotherdelay]

Not only that, think about this. Some people do not know about these restrictions so imagine someone not even knowing and starts another job in same industry (because that's the industry he knows so well) the pension notify's him of his violations and no-reporting of new employment and disqualifies the persons pension benefits because they can per the language. That is FUBER!!!

yeah, don't worry about it, they won't find about it. lol.

 

[swamt]

No RIF is a good thing, but the ideal recourse is to be able to bump wherever on the system your seniority can hold.

It also creates a cascade effect that companies tend to hate. This can often lead to carriers thinking twice before scaling back/shutting down a facility/point.

Exactly. That why we like it that way so that the co. won't just scale back to use it as leverage. Your seniority should take you where ever it fits in rather a position is open or not, let the trickling begin and yes carriers hate it when it's this way due to the time consumption and movements involved. Also station relocation do to companies fault would also lead into relocation cost on the company as well.

 

[anotherdelay]

Exactly. That why we like it that way so that the co. won't just scale back to use it as leverage. Your seniority should take you where ever it fits in rather a position is open or not, let the trickling begin and yes carriers hate it when it's this way due to the time consumption and movements involved. Also station relocation do to companies fault would also lead into relocation cost on the company as well.

biggest red flag about cuts again. You would think the ASS would just say pure recall and bump the juniors, and also ask for 12500 back.

 

[swamt]

biggest red flag about cuts again. You would think the ASS would just say pure recall and bump the juniors, and also ask for 12500 back.

That's the way it should be...

 

[skydrol]

Coney in your job function you would have been better served if the company gave you a mallet and a large pry bar instead of a screwdriver any way since I'm In the IAMPF with the way it is going I'd rather see more restrictions than have them reduce the monthly payment. I know some will scream how about not collecting until 62 or 65 like SS?

Albert, since you are in the IAMPF are there any survivor benefits? In other words if you die will your spouse continue to draw or is it cut off ?