Why no contract from the Association?

[swamt]

Am I making sense of this how bad the IAMPF is versus the 401K? Anyone care to add more senerios to this as to why the IAMPF is horrible?[/QUOTE]

Yes you are. And I believe it is starting to work on getting other members a little more educated on it and at least get them to start looking into the differences. I myself have now seen 3 new people astound at how they did not know the big differences.
Only thing I would add is the controllability factor. Although covered previously and slightly in your post, it has been one of the biggest factors with me. In the IAMPF who controls, or rather, manages your fund on rather you are IN or OUT of the markets when they are GOOD or BAD? Well that's usually a complete stranger hired or appointed by the controlling entity, and in this case it appears to be your union (IAM). What is this managers back ground, history, education, and experience? Not sure anyone can answer that. At anytime can anyone call or inquire rather you are in or out of the market at any such time? If retirement fund is in complete disaster and going down (like the teamsters pension just was) who has a say so rather to pull out or start cutting benefits to save it? Not you as a participating member, that's for sure. The fund management team is. And NO, just like the teamsters latest fiascos, you guys will not have any say so or vote on rather the pensions will get frozen, sold, or cut in half for benefits being distributed. Also, after you retire you will still have no say so rather the benefits will get cut or not it is totally up to the management team appointed by the union to manage it. Do you guys really want that? Look at what has happened to the teamsters pension fund 3 times. 3 Times the teamsters pension fund is getting benefits cut by fund managers with no vote by current members and retired members. In the latest fiasco the retires (already retired) are getting their benefits cut by as much as 62% and better for some. Some retirees (most) will be forced back into the employment field, not by their choice, and they better hope they don't get into one of the many upon many fields that will cut their benefits 100% due to all the restrictions.

 

[Vortilon]

The way Gary Peterson described the LAA frozen pension status to our stewards was - that it isn't being discussed as a possibility to be switched over to the IAMpnf, because of the fact it's legally tied up - since the BK. Take that as a good sign or a bad sign. We all know better than to trust the union, especially the international.

 

[swamt]

If you decide to leave AA, it's portable.

The money is in your account "right now."

If you kick off (God forbid) your designated heir(s) receive the money w/o the same penalties as the IAMNPF.

During the next industry downturn you won't see people breathlessly running around breakrooms harumphing about "saving the pension" at all costs.

You won't see Glass & Co. holding it over your collective heads like a sword of Damocles to get whatever items they want during the next talks.

Etc.

Another great example. The "holding the employees hostage" for saving the pension plans. Excellent point Kev. He's right here. The co. can NEVER hold your 401K or IRA accounts hostage to get what they want in the contract to change their way. Ex: We will save your pensions if you guys agree to a 50% cut in mechanic (fleet) or any specific group, headcounts. Remember that one guys? Take the pay cuts to save jobs, and the jobs still went bye-bye didn't they? By well over 50%.

 

[WeAAsles]

The way Gary Peterson described the LAA frozen pension status to our stewards was - that it isn't being discussed as a possibility to be switched over to the IAMpnf, because of the fact it's legally tied up - since the BK. Take that as a good sign or a bad sign. We all know better than to trust the union, especially the international.

So you're saying there's a possibility the TWU International "people" are stronger than both BK Judge Sean Lane AND the PBGC?

So Gary basically said it ain't happening and you're saying we could also take that as a "bad sign" ?

I thought you didn't want to have anything to do with the IAMNPF?

 

[AANOTOK]

If there is one thing I have learned in my 34 plus years at AA and being in a Union, is never, ever agree to give up pay to save jobs. They have always cut the heads or closed the station...always. Secondly, you can ask five different unions reps the same question, and get three different answers (if not five). On point A. if I have this figured out, then why in the world hasn't the union?

 

[Albert]

The way Gary Peterson described the LAA frozen pension status to our stewards was - that it isn't being discussed as a possibility to be switched over to the IAMpnf, because of the fact it's legally tied up - since the BK. Take that as a good sign or a bad sign. We all know better than to trust the union, especially the international.

So you are saying the IAMPF which is in so called distress is going to take on an underfunded pension?........Come on, did you hear that from a steward or read it in a bathroom stall?

 

[WeAAsles]

So you are saying the IAMPF which is in so called distress is going to take on an underfunded pension?........Come on, did you hear that from a steward or read it in a bathroom stall?

Al the IAMPF trustees plan to take every penny we have in our DBP trust with AA being held to support all of you who have been in it before us, leaving us with NOTHING.

They are going to FORCE us into the agreement and when we look at our Pension holdings we'll read $0.00. IAMPF accumulations will start at day 1 for new enrollees while the Bigwigs puffing on their Cigars will laugh at all of us LAA suckers.

You'll eat your Beets and not say crap.

 

[swamt]

I agree with with alll your negative on the IAMPF but if you are a new fleet the company is putting in $1.15 per hour towards your plan if they give you a 5% match it comes out to less. I'm to lazy to do the math and I know what good is it if the plan is insolvent. To be honest I don't know too may 18 year olds who give a chit remember at that age you thought you'd live for ever

Beg to differ on this one. Example: Fleet hourly worker at 25-30 per hour. IAMPF pays him 1.15 per hour into fund; 1.15x40x52= $2392 yearly and max pension input by co. Same hourly worker putting in 5% match 401K fund. 25 per hour times 40 hrs per wk x 52 weeks (same example as above) equals 52,000 yearly salary. 5% of employee contribution, added to 5% match by co. (using your example as you stated a matched 401K for comparo) equals 5,200 per year going into 401K. Now lets take the overwhelming overtime this new fleet worker will be working because as you stated he is a NEW worker just coming in. Say 10K per year in O/T (not unreasonable in our field for sure) Now this fleet worker made 62K with o/t for the year. 62Kx10% (total input, 5% employee, 55 co match) equals 6,200 per year going into 401K. Now add in all o/t while in the pension fund. With 10K in over time, employee gets a big FAT "0" additional monies added to his pension fund due to the rules/restrictions.
So lets recap; pension fund totals yearly is $2392 max. 401K fund yearly totals is $6,200 INCLUDING O/T. I beg to differ your theory stated in your post. You should really start doing the math, and stop being lazy, as this is what is killing you guys with this asso, THE LAZINESS of the members, which is exactly why you had this asso pushed upon you guys. Using both examples listed, even with NO o/t included there is still a huge difference of $2392 for pension input per yr, and $5,200 for 401K input for the year. Rather very large differences sir, please get educated a little more before you make the biggest mistake (one of) of your career and retirement. No disrespect here brother, most here I know I post bluntly, just trying to explain and help educate as most people are too lazy to do their own research and this is exactly what this asso wants a lazy membership to believe every little thing they say. Did you not learn from the latest NO votes by the membership??? C'mon man wake up brother...

 

[Albert]

I

Beg to differ on this one. Example: Fleet hourly worker at 25-30 per hour. IAMPF pays him 1.15 per hour into fund; 1.15x40x52= $2392 yearly and max pension input by co. Same hourly worker putting in 5% match 401K fund. 25 per hour times 40 hrs per wk x 52 weeks (same example as above) equals 52,000 yearly salary. 5% of employee contribution, added to 5% match by co. (using your example as you stated a matched 401K for comparo) equals 5,200 per year going into 401K. Now lets take the overwhelming overtime this new fleet worker will be working because as you stated he is a NEW worker just coming in. Say 10K per year in O/T (not unreasonable in our field for sure) Now this fleet worker made 62K with o/t for the year. 62Kx10% (total input, 5% employee, 55 co match) equals 6,200 per year going into 401K. Now add in all o/t while in the pension fund. With 10K in over time, employee gets a big FAT "0" additional monies added to his pension fund due to the rules/restrictions.
So lets recap; pension fund totals yearly is $2392 max. 401K fund yearly totals is $6,200 INCLUDING O/T. I beg to differ your theory stated in your post. You should really start doing the math, and stop being lazy, as this is what is killing you guys with this asso, THE LAZINESS of the members, which is exactly why you had this asso pushed upon you guys. Using both examples listed, even with NO o/t included there is still a huge difference of $2392 for pension input per yr, and $5,200 for 401K input for the year. Rather very large differences sir, please get educated a little more before you make the biggest mistake (one of) of your career and retirement. No disrespect here brother, most here I know I post bluntly, just trying to explain and help educate as most people are too lazy to do their own research and this is exactly what this asso wants a lazy membership to believe every little thing they say. Did you not learn from the latest NO votes by the membership??? C'mon man wake up brother...

I'm actually to lazy to read your whole post (By the way I'm not defending the IAMPF) you are overstating what a new fleet worker makes. I was hired when I was 18 and at that age I was spending money on what 18 year old' s spend money on, if I didn't have a defined plan I doubt I would have saved anything those first years. A new fleet agent probably makes $13 or $14 and most start part time with the pension it's about $2400 a year 5% is about $1400 as far as me waking up I'm 58 I have a bout 5 or 6 legs on my stool 2 with the government in question and the IAMPF plus I'll probably die on my way to cashing my first SS check

 

[Albert]

Al the IAMPF trustees plan to take every penny we have in our DBP trust with AA being held to support all of you who have been in it before us, leaving us with NOTHING.

They are going to FORCE us into the agreement and when we look at our Pension holdings we'll read $0.00. IAMPF accumulations will start at day 1 for new enrollees while the Bigwigs puffing on their Cigars will laugh at all of us LAA suckers.

You'll eat your Beets and not say crap.

Okay then

 

[WeAAsles]

I

I'm actually to lazy to read your whole post (By the way I'm not defending the IAMPF) you are overstating what a new fleet worker makes. I was hired when I was 18 and at that age I was spending money on what 18 year old' s spend money on, if I didn't have a defined plan I doubt I would have saved anything those first years. A new fleet agent probably makes $13 or $14 and most start part time with the pension it's about $2400 a year 5% is about $1400 as far as me waking up I'm 58 I have a bout 5 or 6 legs on my stool 2 with the government in question and the IAMPF plus I'll probably die on my way to cashing my first SS check

The problem I think you have here with many of these people is they may have only been relying on two stools to get them through? The DBP and Social Security. They may have gotten themselves in a position where now they had to do a quick jump in the pool of the 401k plan after the BK froze us and they're trying to stuff as much in there as possible?

They also probably lived overextended to begin with? Living in DFW I can't tell you how many Clerks bought ridiculously sized houses (Not being aware the Exectric bill would kill them) and they buy those crazy large BBQ pits and many of them at the very least own two jet skis and/or a boat. Then they HAVE to have that big Ford F-150 to impress all their friends with.

That's the only reason that I can read such desperation in some of these posts to want that higher 401k Contributions or Matches. These guys are playing catch up and just don't want to admit it.

And the more money they make, the larger the toys they want.

 

[WeAAsles]

Even after all those raises I still get people coming up to me daily, seriously every day looking for more. Asking me how much do I think it's going to be? "Will we get a bonus" "When will we get our Equity" "I heard it's going to be $10,000" Pure Gluttony.

Gluttony (Latin: gula), derived from the Latin gluttiremeaning to gulp down or swallow, means over-indulgence and over-consumption of food, drink, or wealth items.

In Christianity, it is considered a sin if the excessive desire for food or wealth causes it to be withheld from the needy.[1] Some Christian denominations consider gluttony as one of the seven deadly sins, a misplaced or inordinate desire for food/drink.

 

[Albert]

The problem I think you have here with many of these people is they may have only been relying on two stools to get them through? The DBP and Social Security. They may have gotten themselves in a position where now they had to do a quick jump in the pool of the 401k plan after the BK froze us and they're trying to stuff as much in there as possible?

They also probably lived overextended to begin with? Living in DFW I can't tell you how many Clerks bought ridiculously sized houses (Not being aware the Exectric bill would kill them) and they buy those crazy large BBQ pits and many of them at the very least own two jet skis and/or a boat. Then they HAVE to have that big Ford F-150 to impress all their friends with.

That's the only reason that I can read such desperation in some of these posts to want that higher 401k Contributions or Matches. These guys are playing catch up and just don't want to admit it.

And the more money they make, the larger the toys they want.

Well they also don't want their money going into "sick" entity I's scary SS is in trouble the PBGC is in trouble it's a matter of concern

 

[WeAAsles]

Well they also don't want their money going into "sick" entity I's scary SS is in trouble the PBGC is in trouble it's a matter of concern

Agreed. There are aren't too many secure hideouts out there financially. Probably one of the best options if you can deal with all the headaches that come with it is to start investing in buying rental properties? I know a few Clerks even who are doing quite well financially in that area even if they're always on the phone with some issue or another.

People always want roofs over their heads.

 

[Albert]

Even after all those raises I still get people coming up to me daily, seriously every day looking for more. Asking me how much do I think it's going to be? "Will we get a bonus" "When will we get our Equity" "I heard it's going to be $10,000" Pure Gluttony.

Gluttony (Latin: gula), derived from the Latin gluttiremeaning to gulp down or swallow, means over-indulgence and over-consumption of food, drink, or wealth items.

In Christianity, it is considered a sin if the excessive desire for food or wealth causes it to be withheld from the needy.[1] Some Christian denominations consider gluttony as one of the seven deadly sins, a misplaced or inordinate desire for food/drink.

Refer them to NYer. The fact that the union hasn't officially came out and said there will be a choice does and should concern those that want no part of the IAMPF