Whats He Asking For?

[Hopeful]

I realize i am a outsider but i am following the discussion. It seems Pete is so full of himself using cowardly jabs. Pete if you were a officer at the time of the alleged violation why now post it, must be your in a doomed re-election. Bob holds his ground,gives open answers and keeps facts from spin.

Pete i take it your the president of the local because you find offence to Bobs complaints. As president you should have respected your membership & not required them to respect you! Respect is earned not given! I guess politics is the same at all the airlines!

If you've been following the discussion, you would've known that Pete Corabi is the Vice President of the local 562....His member name in this forum denotes his name and position.

How reasonable for an outsider, or (are you really an outsider?) to take sides without asking any questions about this discussion.

Both Bob Owens and Pete Corabi have served and still serve, respectively, the members of local 562. Both men are good union men.
How they choose to serve and how they conduct themselves is for the members to decide when they vote in the upcoming election.

 

[Pete Corabi VP562]

So in other words instead of blocking the motion because it was out of order or illegal you feel its your perrogative as an E-board member to block a motion based upon your personal preferences. That contradicts what you have said earlier as far as the members being the ultimate authority. This is not the only example of you trying to block a legal motion from going to a membership vote based upon your opinion of it. You tried to do the same thing with the round robin motion that came out of JFK back when you were section chairman. You didnt want to allow it to come to a vote despite the fact that it was a perfectly legal proceedure that other workgroups in the TWU/AA system used because YOU didnt agree with it. I successfully argued that despite our (the E-board)personal feelings, since we were all relatively senior workers, the motion was legal and the members must be given the opportunity to vote on it.

Personally I agree that a 25% threshold is too low. Regardless of my opinion it should have been up to the membership to decide. If the members decided that 25% should be enough to call for a vote that required 2/3rds for ratification then so be it. The board has the opportunity to make their feelings known during debate.


That said thats not what the person who made the motion was told was the reason for rejection, he would have altered it to 50%+1 if that was the issue, I spoke to him about it. He was told that the board determined recall was a violation of the LMRDA and I believe the TWU Constitution. Both are false.

So what is it Pete, is the membership the "ultimate authority" or should the E-board have the right to screen motions based upon their personal preferences of what they "like" or dont like ?

You claim that you would support Recall if it was 50%+ 1, meaning that the motion was legal, you just didnt like some of the stipulations of the motion but as an E-board member your duty was to determine whether or not the motion was legal, not whether or not you as an individual would vote for it as written. If you felt it was legal but you didnt like the 25% threshold you should have voted to allow it to be voted on then gone to a meeting and voted against it or made an amendment to the motion.

Lets not forget that Local 562 was formed because the members were allowed to vote for it. The E-board of Local 501 was against letting us vote to split, it was unanimous. Legally, their decision to not allow us to vote to leave was more sound than yours not to allow recall and round robin to come to a vote. However as you know we were permitted to vote and the E-board was permitted to campaign against passage of the motion. As a member did you feel that the E-board had the right to not allow us to vote on motions or do you only feel that way now that you are an E-board member?

Bob;

Sorry for the confusion. We (the Board) thought the motion was illegal. I also felt it was not fair, besides being illegal the way it was written. Not because of any disregard for the membership, but because it would have allowed a non-majority to control the outcome of an election.

Pete

 

[ibtproud]

Hopeful , I have followed it and it seems as a vice he talks like the president!

As for taking sides i called it as i saw it. I realize you may know the two personally. That must be why your response was personal. Here is a clue, post here people will respond, I am sure Pete and Bob are is old enough to defend themselves! Sometimes a outside opinion helps!

 

[Hopeful]

Ok ibt.....please re-read this post ......and you will see Corabi's bio.

OK Informant;

Ill bite. I guess that transparency and open conversation dont mean too much to you, or you would tell me who you are. So in the absence of knowing, I will address you as Mr. Management.

As you are probably aware, the is no such article addressing recall of Officers. But there are Locals that do have recall procedures in there by-laws. I'll let you do the research on that. As I stated before, quite clearly, If my members file a motion and it passes, I will abide by it.

Now, here is my Bio

6/9/86 - Junior Mechanic
7/87 - M E Training Instructor (management position)
9/89 - Left managment ( I did not like it) Re-Hired as an AMT
7/92 - to Present - Tech Crew Chief JFK - And yes, I like what I do.

11/99 - Elected Section Chairman JFK Local 562. I never liked how the AMT's were treated with
501, so I figured it is better to get involved and try to make a difference, rather than BS
about it all day long.
9/2002 - Elected E-Board Local 562
9/2003 or thereabout - Elected Treasurer of Local 562, after Owens was removed from office.
11/2005 - Elected Vice-President of Local 562

As you can see, I was elected by a majority of the members in my local. I am very proud to serve them and will continue to do so for as long as they want me too.

As far as the convention minutes go, I did not know that I was required to do anything for you. As stated before, I believe that Owens account is accurate. I also have no aspirations of going to the TWU International. I like working on airplanes. Please tell me where you have lost your freedom, democracy or worker justice? I dont think you lost anything. Look hard, it is right in front of you. Some people are good at finding fault and placing blame. Others are better at working through problems and finding solutions. Where do you stand, Mr. Management?

 

[FWAAA]

Well you still dont have it right Pete. You got more votes than any other candidate but not the majority of the votes cast.

Correct. Pete appears to have been elected by a plurality of the votes, by receiving more votes than any of the other candidates.

I find it curious that the election process doesn't call for a run-off election in cases like this. Very few people will be happy if the leadership is elected out of a pool of half a dozen candidates if they only get 20% or 25% of the votes cast. If I were in the worthless union, I'd demand that the first and second place candidates face each other in a run-off to see which gets more votes. It's not a given that the earlier first place "winner" will get a majority. After all, a majority of voters voted against them the first time around.

 

[ibtproud]

Hopeful: I am not in AAs forum to stir it up. The TWU better learn fast how to wear armor and fight! The old IAM from Usair,UAL or Eastern are gone AMFA at NWA is gone. CAL IBT going in Dec for talks need backing.

That said the old style vs the new seems to be a arguement. The TWU oldstyle has never worked for many reasons some of Bobs posts state why. I want to learn the fight CAL is going to have from what AA is doing now!

The TWU needs a new face a new direction and new standards or all of us will continue to slide backwards. Reading petes bio states his service. What are his accomplishments to change the machine over there that is not working? I hate to say it but the IBT and TWU{hopefully} have to fix this industry we are all that is left! Bobs many posts show the fire needed to shine a future. How close is the twu to a contract? What was the gain? Where was your snap back? I feel the TWU overhaul must start from the floor! Bob seems to have the vision or fight in him to do that.

 

[Bob Owens]

Correct. Pete appears to have been elected by a plurality of the votes, by receiving more votes than any of the other candidates.

I find it curious that the election process doesn't call for a run-off election in cases like this. Very few people will be happy if the leadership is elected out of a pool of half a dozen candidates if they only get 20% or 25% of the votes cast. If I were in the worthless union, I'd demand that the first and second place candidates face each other in a run-off to see which gets more votes. It's not a given that the earlier first place "winner" will get a majority. After all, a majority of voters voted against them the first time around.

Thats on our list of proposed Bylaw changes.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful: I am not in AAs forum to stir it up. The TWU better learn fast how to wear armor and fight! The old IAM from Usair,UAL or Eastern are gone AMFA at NWA is gone. CAL IBT going in Dec for talks need backing.

That said the old style vs the new seems to be a arguement. The TWU oldstyle has never worked for many reasons some of Bobs posts state why. I want to learn the fight CAL is going to have from what AA is doing now!

The TWU needs a new face a new direction and new standards or all of us will continue to slide backwards. Reading petes bio states his service. What are his accomplishments to change the machine over there that is not working? I hate to say it but the IBT and TWU{hopefully} have to fix this industry we are all that is left! Bobs many posts show the fire needed to shine a future. How close is the twu to a contract? What was the gain? Where was your snap back? I feel the TWU overhaul must start from the floor! Bob seems to have the vision or fight in him to do that.

I agree. But we have another obstacle with respect to the TWU. The Airline Division is just one of several in the TWU conglomerate. The international positions are all appointments and and the overhaul you speak of, and of which is badly needed, probably won't happen because this is a bus drivers union. As long as they get theirs, the other divisions are the red headed stepchildren.

 

[Bob Owens]

http://twu562.org/10-08/response.pdf

"The question of our overall negotiating strategy should be discussed in person which we can arrange at your convience and not in the form of a letter." (from Jim Littles response to Iuliano letter)

"I wll be at work tomorrow 1400-2230. I would be happy to speak with you then. Are you a member of Local 562?"

Pete Corabi VP562 response to question about how he plans to improve the local.

Anybody else see the similarity in the response?

Why this aversion to transparency?

All this secrecy then offense is supposedly taken when compared to other organizations that also shy away from the light of day.

Isnt one of the most strongly sought after goals of any union to "get it in writing"? Don't the members deserve the same from their reps?

 

[Bob Owens]

I agree. But we have another obstacle with respect to the TWU. The Airline Division is just one of several in the TWU conglomerate. The international positions are all appointments and and the overhaul you speak of, and of which is badly needed, probably won't happen because this is a bus drivers union. As long as they get theirs, the other divisions are the red headed stepchildren.

I dont think thats true anymore. I believe the ATD is larger than transit. Local 100 is by far the largest most powerful local but if the AA/TWU system was under 1 local it would be pretty close. If the AA/TWU locals got together with Local 100 they could completely change the International.

 

[ibtproud]

Bob i may be a new member but i have read this board for a long time. You represent a great vision and a breath of fresh air.

I wish AA TWU workers well in contract talks and i hope you continue to fight established yes men and TWU weaknesses. I enjoy the fire in your posts.

I find it funny a guy who just joined has all the titles, all the answers but nothing to show what he has done to change it! I hate career politicians! Give em hell Bob!

 

[TWU informer]

Thats on our list of proposed Bylaw changes.

Was submitted at Local 514, called out-of-order per violation of the TWU Constitution. Plurality election of Local Officers required by the Dictators. Good Luck Bob

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Was submitted at Local 514, called out-of-order per violation of the TWU Constitution. Plurality election of Local Officers required by the Dictators. Good Luck Bob

Article 12 of TWU local 567 bylaws has the provision for removal (recall) of local officers by direct membership vote. This bylaw was approved by the membership 2-28-2004 and approved by the TWU International 3-8-2004.

At the 2001 TWU convention, resolution 2 removal of officers:
Delegate Downs (local 100) asked for clarificiation from the chairman Bland
"is it the position that any local that wishes to place a right to recall in its bylaws is free to do so?
Chair Bland: "that is correct"

Delegate Robert Gless (Local 562) "we speak again about placing this back in, not only recalling our local officers but placing recall an accountability of our international staff. We are asking the body to put back the democratic process to allow the members to step up, all of us, and to hold us accountable, including ourselves.

President Sonny Hall: " the only change which the constitution did not allow was locals to be able to develop their own recall procedure. At that time, we did not find it wrong and we do not find it wrong now. That should be up to the locals"

Roger Tauss (International Vice President) "I sat in the Executive Board meetings when we discussed this particular resolution. We rejected the first part of the locals because we said. That is a local matter. They can put that in their bylaws"

I wonder if International Representative Robert Gless still feels the same way?

 

[Hopeful]

I dont think thats true anymore. I believe the ATD is larger than transit. Local 100 is by far the largest most powerful local but if the AA/TWU system was under 1 local it would be pretty close. If the AA/TWU locals got together with Local 100 they could completely change the International.

True, but do you think this is possible with Little at the helm?

 

[Bob Owens]

True, but do you think this is possible with Little at the helm?

Possible, yes, but by no means easy.

Little may be holding a lot of cards but he is a weak leader.
He surrounded himself with people of low charecter, fellow liars, drunkards, wife abusers, and philanderers from the AA system. Few of these people carry any support from the locals they came from. All the top spots were filled with rejects from the AA system, leaving out more able leaders from other ATD Locals and other divisions. That leaves him vulnerable at the Convention.

Sonny Hall, for all his faults didnt shy away from putting things on paper and he wasnt a bold faced liar like Jim Little.