Whats He Asking For?

[TWU informer]

Informer;

I have been beating the drums for quite some time. 22 years at AA, and nine years in elected office, and I have watched the industry take a dive. But as easy as it is for some to scapegoat the International or others for their problems, Im afraid that the solutions are not that easy. I will not blame anyone for my choice of career, my lot in life, or the demise of organized labor. But I will do my part to make a better life, and better work environment for myself and my membership for as long as I am in elected office. Blaming others never fixed anything, although it may get an audience.
As for my position aginst Bob Owens, it is not emotional, it is philosophical. I want my wages and benefits restored just as much as anyone here. I just disagree with him in some, but not all ways on how to accomplish that goal. I do like the way Iuliano handles the job. I think that is is more effective than the way Bob would handle it. It has nothing to do with being freinds or not being freinds. Its just a different viewpoint.

Pete

What I find interesting is your complaints about the International and your praise of Iuliano.

If the TWU International is not controlling the negotiations and Presidents like Iuliano are not following their lead like stooges with rings in their noses then why is it the membership has not seen one detailed proposal made by AA or the TWU? We have secret negotiations and only summaries of what has been passed to the TWU by AA. Long term "comprehensive proposals" short term "comprehensive proposals" have been submitted by our negotiators yet I have not seen the details of a single submission, nor has any other dues paying member. So either the TWU International is controlling information, AA Management is controlling information, or your guy for President doesn't inform the members like he should.

Which is it?

One thing is for damn sure, the current negotiators are dealing secretly with management and the dues paying member is simply mad as hell that they are asked to "BLINDLY" follow and support this activity. Not only should the International be changed, but every person on the committee pandering to seret negotations should be replaced or removed from office.

Maybe you have a confident sharing information with you so you have a different take, but how can you not view the secrets and lack of communication anything other than failed leadership?

I will be interested to hear your detailed plan about how to fix the problems of our union and our profession? In other words details of exactly how and what you are doing that is your part to

make a better life, and better work environment for myself and my membership for as long as I am in elected office.

 

[Pete Corabi VP562]

Afraid? Are you saying that I fear John will make me a martyr? Hardly. This is a public forum where all can see what he has to say, or he could have another letter clarifying what he meant by the letter on the website.







Protect your members from what? Information? In the five years that we have been out of office what have you done to bring about any positive changes?




I agree, you should try following your own advice.I've worked hard towards many of those things and I'm still working to meet those goals. In fact I do so without putting in for UB. Even when I was in office I met with leaders of other Locals on my own time who also wanted these things, if I recall I didnt see you at any of those meetings.



Wow, now you sound just like Sonny Hall! Calling for democratic reform is wonton destruction?



So you say. And what have they done for the other 90%? Other than massive pay and benifit cuts what has the International done for them? They take a third of the dues and they handle a few ASAP reports, big deal! I havent filed an ASAP in years so where did my, and the other 90% who havent filed an ASAP report, money go?

The fact is we need democratic reform at every level in the union, but first we must clean up the Local first. How can you ask for recall at the International level when you dont have it at the Local level? How can you ask for transparency from the Internatioanl when individuals on E-boards say that everything that comes out of an E-borad meeting was unanimous when it wasnt?




Oh really? You want the members to know how their representatives vote? Do you believe that we the members have the right to know how each individual on the board votes? Dont forget that I served on the same board as you and I know first hand about how you feel about the individual accountability of borad members.

You want the members to have accountability? You want recall?




Well in less than two months there's a good chance I'll be saying that you.

My agenda was, is and always will be getting us the contract we deserve. The members didnt remove me, the International did, I was doing what they elected me to do and when I get back in I will pick up where I left off.

Bob;

No one can make you anything that you are not. You are what you are. You still have not given an explanation about why you wont talk to Iuliano. I thought that you were all about information? When I say that I do my job to protect the membership it is this;

4 AMT's in SJU returned to work from termination (arbitrated decision)
2 AMT's in JFK returned to work from termaination (arbitrated decision)
5 AMT's at LGA returned to work (Company withdrew on arbitration day before they could lose)

These are the things that strengthen the membership from labor injustice, and when we win one case it strengthens everbody! You are a good union man and should understand that it is always a fight for our rights. And I would do the same for you. These ARE positive changes. We make a difference in the daily lives of our membership.
I am happy that you continue to work towards your goals while not in Office, and I commend you for it. I do not question your dedication, only your methods.
Since you are saying that licensce protection only helps 10% of the members, does that mean you want to get rid of it? Lord help the poor soul who misses a hydraulic leak on a winter night and gets it from the Feds! I am happy for you that you have been so fortunate as not to file an ASAP report. But if I were to use your logic we would not have firehouses either, since 90% of houses dont burn down! Again, give credit where it is due.
If you want to know how the members of the board vote, then just submit a motion. If the members pass it, you get what you want. Nobody is stopping you.
Bob, you can blame whom ever you want to for your removal from office. But until you look in the mirror and get the answer, history will repeat itself.

Pete

 

[aamechntx]

I take it that you believe that an agenda to rid ourselves of the most docile, company lapdog, anti-democratic union in the industry is an agenda that is not for our collective good? I disagree 100% if that is the point of your post.

The folks that refuse to see the facts due to either emotional defense of friends or because they currently receive a paycheck from the TWU thus admitting things are wrong is likely impossible are not looking at the facts or debating the facts regarding the TWU.

I am in local 513. After reading these threads I visited 562's site to get a better understanding of the history here. Without stepping on anyone's toes here I will try to keep the overstating the obvious to a minimum. It looks like John is doing a fairly decent job in communicating whats happening in a timely manner. Its not hard to see his frustration either. I saw his posted letters to Little Jim, but Jim's responses are absent if he bothered to respond at all. Since it seems impossible to throw the baby out with the bath water we really need to pressure our locals to demand more accountability. transparency and democratic processes from the international. Heck, we may have to scream for it at every meeting at every local. It may make these non democratic appointments seem more like prison sentences for those at the international. h34r:

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob;

You still have not given an explanation about why you wont talk to Iuliano. I thought that you were all about information?

I prefer to have it out here on an open forum. This is a much more effective way of sharing information, already we have seen people from Tulsa and DFW join in the conversation. Some see it your way, some see it my way. This is kind of like a union meeting that includes people from across the country, very democratic, you however prefer that I take an approach thats more like something out of the Sopranos and talk to Tony in the back of the Pork Shop.

When I say that I do my job to protect the membership it is this;

4 AMT's in SJU returned to work from termination (arbitrated decision)
2 AMT's in JFK returned to work from termaination (arbitrated decision)
5 AMT's at LGA returned to work (Company withdrew on arbitration day before they could lose)

These are the things that strengthen the membership from labor injustice, and when we win one case it strengthens everbody! You are a good union man and should understand that it is always a fight for our rights.

Thats fine, however none of those cases were victories. They were all draws. All those workers lost pay, none of them were made whole, none were considered precidents and the company got away with violating its own policies of progressive discipline. The company fully achieved their objective by inflicting severe punishment and heavy monetary penalties for minor offenses that when I came into the industry would have at the most have been a three day suspension. By doing so they sent a message that should they decide to discipline you, you may get your job back but you are going to lose thousands of dollars. The company won, they were able to get the true result they desired and not even have to lose the employee that they have an investment in.

Now, what the other 800 or so members of Local 562, how have your actions improved their lives? Have your actions helped them become more active union members or has attendance at union meetings been at an all time low?

When Sonnny Hall retired he said that he was justly terminated but that the union got him his job back and according to him "thats what unionism is all about". Well thats not what its all about. Protecting workers from unjust discipline is only a part of the job the main purpose of a union is to get workers better conditions of work such as pay and benifits. To serve the other 800 workers who come to work, dont get into trouble and just do their jobs.

And I would do the same for you. These ARE positive changes. We make a difference in the daily lives of our membership.

Whats changed Pete? We all heard similar stories from Nick about how he got people their jobs back 30 years ago. What about the other 90% of the membership. What changes have you put in place to help them better their lives?

I am happy that you continue to work towards your goals while not in Office, and I commend you for it. I do not question your dedication, only your methods.

Are you retreating from your stance about my so called "agenda"?

Since you are saying that licensce protection only helps 10% of the members, does that mean you want to get rid of it? Lord help the poor soul who misses a hydraulic leak on a winter night and gets it from the Feds! I am happy for you that you have been so fortunate as not to file an ASAP report. But if I were to use your logic we would not have firehouses either, since 90% of houses dont burn down! Again, give credit where it is due.

ASAP is fine, but its not like its limited to TWU members or even union members. Its a program that the FAA has with several carriers and includes several classes of airmen, our dues should be used primarily to better our conditions of work, not implement government programs, thats what we pay taxes for.

If you want to know how the members of the board vote, then just submit a motion. If the members pass it, you get what you want. Nobody is stopping you.

Thats not really an answer to a pretty straitforward question is it? Lets try that again:
Do you believe that we the members have the right to know how each individual on the board votes?

 

[Bob Owens]

I am in local 513. After reading these threads I visited 562's site to get a better understanding of the history here. Without stepping on anyone's toes here I will try to keep the overstating the obvious to a minimum. It looks like John is doing a fairly decent job in communicating whats happening in a timely manner.

I dissagree. Negotiations started over a year ago. Scroll back on the list. how much info do you see prior to this past Summer? In fact how much info do you see since Johns been in office? We have an election coming up in a month, and its only now that he starts to put out any info. If he gets in for another term its reasonable for us to assume things will go right back to they way they were for his first two years.

Its not hard to see his frustration either. I saw his posted letters to Little Jim, but Jim's responses are absent if he bothered to respond at all.

If they were even sent to Little. Surely Jim would respond to letters written from a Local President, even Sonny always responded to letters that I wrote to him while in office and he wouldnt have had the literary expertise of Masters Degree holding alumni of Columbia State University.

Since it seems impossible to throw the baby out with the bath water we really need to pressure our locals to demand more accountability. transparency and democratic processes from the international. Heck, we may have to scream for it at every meeting at every local. It may make these non democratic appointments seem more like prison sentences for those at the international. h34r:

A prison sentence with a six figure slary!

 

[Pete Corabi VP562]

I prefer to have it out here on an open forum. This is a much more effective way of sharing information, already we have seen people from Tulsa and DFW join in the conversation. Some see it your way, some see it my way. This is kind of like a union meeting that includes people from across the country, very democratic, you however prefer that I take an approach thats more like something out of the Sopranos and talk to Tony in the back of the Pork Shop.




Thats fine, however none of those cases were victories. They were all draws. All those workers lost pay, none of them were made whole, none were considered precidents and the company got away with violating its own policies of progressive discipline. The company fully achieved their objective by inflicting severe punishment and heavy monetary penalties for minor offenses that when I came into the industry would have at the most have been a three day suspension. By doing so they sent a message that should they decide to discipline you, you may get your job back but you are going to lose thousands of dollars. The company won, they were able to get the true result they desired and not even have to lose the employee that they have an investment in.

Now, what the other 800 or so members of Local 562, how have your actions improved their lives? Have your actions helped them become more active union members or has attendance at union meetings been at an all time low?

When Sonnny Hall retired he said that he was justly terminated but that the union got him his job back and according to him "thats what unionism is all about". Well thats not what its all about. Protecting workers from unjust discipline is only a part of the job the main purpose of a union is to get workers better conditions of work such as pay and benifits. To serve the other 800 workers who come to work, dont get into trouble and just do their jobs.



Whats changed Pete? We all heard similar stories from Nick about how he got people their jobs back 30 years ago. What about the other 90% of the membership. What changes have you put in place to help them better their lives?



Are you retreating from your stance about my so called "agenda"?



ASAP is fine, but its not like its limited to TWU members or even union members. Its a program that the FAA has with several carriers and includes several classes of airmen, our dues should be used primarily to better our conditions of work, not implement government programs, thats what we pay taxes for.



Thats not really an answer to a pretty straitforward question is it? Lets try that again:
Do you believe that we the members have the right to know how each individual on the board votes?

Bob;

I dont give a crap if you want to talk to Iuliano or not. If you dont want the information from the source, so be it. But I strongly resent the ethnic stereotype. I do not know what your frame of mind was when you wrote it, but it is offensive. And no, I am not retreating from my stance about your agenda. I was simply giving credit to your service. Your behavior here is a justifiable reason why you should not be elected President of Local 562. Your idea of a free flow of information seems like a one way street.

Pete

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob;

I dont give a crap if you want to talk to Iuliano or not. If you dont want the information from the source, so be it. But I strongly resent the ethnic stereotype. I do not know what your frame of mind was when you wrote it, but it is offensive. And no, I am not retreating from my stance about your agenda. I was simply giving credit to your service.

Yea nice try Pete. The comparasion between an open democratic dialogue vs secretive authoritarian deals portayed on the Sopranos has nothing to do with ethnicity but more to do with ethics. The Sopranos is a well known and easily recognized fictional example of corrupt power, if I had said The Westies instead the majority of readers would not know what I was talking about. Feigned resentment doesnt change the fact that you wont answer a simple question. Well what is it Pete? Do you believe that we the members have the right to know how each individual on the board votes?

Your behavior here is a justifiable reason why you should not be elected President of Local 562. Your idea of a free flow of information seems like a one way street.

Pete, Grandstanding doesnt have the same effect in writing. Nobody can see you throw your pencil across the desk on line. Here words are what matters because thats all anyone sees. One way street? I think I've adressed every question you posed in a direct way, you on the other hand have not.

Do you believe that we the members have the right to know how each individual on the board votes? You made the claim Pete, you said that you want the same things as I, so I brought forward a few examples of where I felt we may differ. Instead of clarifying you simply wont answer. That in itself tells me the answer, admittedly the question is rhetorical because you know that I know what you have done and said on this subject at E-board meetings.

So whats it going to be Pete, cut and run? Feign indignation and avoid the question? Or will you stand by your actions and explain why you feel the way you do?

 

[Pete Corabi VP562]

OK Bob;

I will answer your question. I believe that the membership has the ultimate authority over its elected officials. I believe that if the membership desires a change; ie, recall of officers, the voting record of Board members etc, that they have that right. If a member makes a motion, and that motion passes, then it will be done. As a board member, I will not oppose such a motion. You on the other hand seem to want to take control over everything with a small but boisterous minority.
You had the opportunity as treasurer of Local 562 to make such changes. Is it that you only want "openness" when you are RUNNING for office? You had over three years as Treasurer. You accomplished nothing. Dont forget when you were Treasurer I was Section Chaimain at JFK, and had no voting rights on the board. So that calls into question your leadership and integrity, and what if anything you can bring to the table in the future. You have denegrated this forum into a mud sliging contest. Anyone who disagerees with your view must be wrong, or stupid. No other way but Bob's way! I will confront every challenge brought to me. I am more than just a typewritter tough guy like yourself. You write alot, but do little. You challenge our victories in restoring jobs to our members, you act as though these guys were fired for going to the bathroom for too long. They were all fired for sleeping on the job, in blankets, beds and hiding. Local 562 was the ONLY local to get there guys back for such infractions. And like it or not, I presented them, and was proud of my membership for all of their help. And so you know the 2 cases at JFK were precidents. Look it up! If you were out on the street, I dont think that you would call it a "draw" that your got your job back. Or maybe you dont care since you have a nice second source of income with your brothers landscaping business. Well Bob, some of us are not so fortunate, and we need our jobs! What are you going to do when someone gets fired while you are President? Write a letter I suppose? I think that you would wilt like a flower in the hot sun. If you have anything more that is intelligent to say, then I will respond.

Pete

 

[TWU informer]

OK Bob;

I will answer your question. I believe that the membership has the ultimate authority over its elected officials. I believe that if the membership desires a change; ie, recall of officers, the voting record of Board members etc, that they have that right. If a member makes a motion, and that motion passes, then it will be done. As a board member, I will not oppose such a motion. You on the other hand seem to want to take control over everything with a small but boisterous minority.
Pete

Pete,

Can you please state the specific Article in the TWU Constitution that gives members the right to recall officers and demand voting records of Board members? Maybe even the Article of your local by-laws if such authority exist there?

Now it is clear to me that you have NOT been banging the drum for 22 years under the TWU as you claim. At least not as an advocate to advance the profession. I don't know where you were earlier in your career but I would like an explanation of your career details up until you became VP of the Local.

You really need to read the TWU Constitutional Convention Mintues of the past before what you "believe" and what is reality have a train wreck and someone get their feelings hurt.

I am still waiting on specific details of your banging the drum actitivity and what your plan is to correct our corrupt union and salvage the profession from the docile lapdog union of the bus drivers in New York City.

You have already clearly exposed to me that you have no knowledge of the history of the TWU realting to Mechanics. In fact you appear to be a real novice in the facts regarding TWU history and corruption.

What exactly were doing for AA before you arrived on the Local TWU Ballot? Let me guess something related to management along with James C. Little?

Did you obtain your copy of the past Convention Minutes yet? Do you even plan to obtain them? Or are you one of those guys that already knows it all and the past doesn't really matter as you blaze your trail to a TWU International Appointment at the expense of freedom, democracy, and worker justice?

 

[Pete Corabi VP562]

OK Informant;

Ill bite. I guess that transparency and open conversation dont mean too much to you, or you would tell me who you are. So in the absence of knowing, I will address you as Mr. Management.

As you are probably aware, the is no such article addressing recall of Officers. But there are Locals that do have recall procedures in there by-laws. I'll let you do the research on that. As I stated before, quite clearly, If my members file a motion and it passes, I will abide by it.

Now, here is my Bio

6/9/86 - Junior Mechanic
7/87 - M E Training Instructor (management position)
9/89 - Left managment ( I did not like it) Re-Hired as an AMT
7/92 - to Present - Tech Crew Chief JFK - And yes, I like what I do.

11/99 - Elected Section Chairman JFK Local 562. I never liked how the AMT's were treated with
501, so I figured it is better to get involved and try to make a difference, rather than BS
about it all day long.
9/2002 - Elected E-Board Local 562
9/2003 or thereabout - Elected Treasurer of Local 562, after Owens was removed from office.
11/2005 - Elected Vice-President of Local 562

As you can see, I was elected by a majority of the members in my local. I am very proud to serve them and will continue to do so for as long as they want me too.

As far as the convention minutes go, I did not know that I was required to do anything for you. As stated before, I believe that Owens account is accurate. I also have no aspirations of going to the TWU International. I like working on airplanes. Please tell me where you have lost your freedom, democracy or worker justice? I dont think you lost anything. Look hard, it is right in front of you. Some people are good at finding fault and placing blame. Others are better at working through problems and finding solutions. Where do you stand, Mr. Management?

 

[TWU informer]

Pete,

I will tell you where I lost my freedom, democracy, and worker justice.

Freedom:

TWU Agency Fee Policy

The United States Supreme Court allows me to object to non-germane expenditures of the union, but the TWU requires me to forfeit my vote and voice in the affairs of the germane and administrative part of the union affairs. Therefore my freedoms in the germane part of union activities are held hostage and require me to fund non-germane activity to have a voice in the germane. See more in Beck vs CWA Supreme Court Decision and TWU Agenct Fee Policy. Basically this the TWU violating the 1st Amendant of Freedom of Speech of union members under Federal Law.



Democracy

AMFA Drive 1998-2003

A Majority of TWU members sign authorization cards requesting the National Mediation Board to hold a representational election between AMFA and the TWU. Election was rejected based on AA/TWU submission of eligible voters that included deceased, retired, and members not in craft or class during the preponderance of their 8 hour day of work.

TWU Constitution allows for appointment of International Officers and attempts calling for change to direct election ballots in 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, and 2005 were rejected by various means that can only be legitimately called anti-worker and anti-democracy tactics. I have tried to get you to obtain copies and read for yourself, but you object to the education and instead claim I am attempting to control you.

Worker Justice

After the 2003 concession agreement was voted on, it was discovered that Don Carty an AA Management was hiding SERP special retirement funds that would withstand a Bankruptcy filing. Upon discovery, James C. Little stated that the only way to have a legitimate ratification was to put the agreement to a re-vote. Shortly after, he signed our current labor agreement “without further ratificationâ€￾ of the membership. Bob Owens and Chuck Shaulk both stepped up the pressure regarding this type of agreement without ratification of the dues paying membership. Both were removed from Office, and it was proven in Federal Court that the membership of the TWU is NOT required to ratify labor agreements and that the agreement actually belongs to the International Union not the membership.

Damn the facts! You know it all because you are the elected Local Official!

I could go into further details but you seem to have no interest in learning the facts regarding the TWU and instead appear to be one of those new to the game rookies who believe that because they fight hard against management daily and earn extra pay from the TWU, that you are exempt from honestly being ignorant to the facts surrounding the TWU and the failed history of groups like the New Directions of Local 100 attempting to force worker freedom and true democracy into the TWU.

Until you come down from the self proclaimed pedestal you are on, I am not going to waste my time trying to teach you something that you could actually learn for yourself by simply coming to the conclusion that you might not know it all, and there may be readable material and facts that would actually educate you to the truth.

WAKE UP PETE! Open your mind and read some material that is real life unionsim within the TWU and stop the attacks on Bob Owens. The greatest thing about the TWU Conventions minutes are that are produce by the TWU International and are actaul transcripts of the proceedings, thus removing the emotional opinion posting that usually happen on a bulletin board such as this.

FACT: What you read here may be alot of opinions.

FACT: What you read in transcripts of the TWU Conventions are real and what actually has taken place there.

I do not have horse running in your local elections and couldnt real care less who wins there.
But your attempts to disgrace someone who I know has fought the International to the point of being removed from Office and may have slanted views on many subjects but yet acknowledges the truth of the TWU failures and the inablities of the membership to revolt and make changes is really pissing me off.

Bob Owens and myself have had many disagreements on this bulletin board while you were apparently in management. But despite those differences of opinions, I know Bob is a true UNION MAN, and you appear to be a lost soul looking for direction bouncing from management to union and now are too arrogant to learn the truth when someone gives you a direction to turn to learn those facts. Thus you are running on emotion instead of logic and leave me unable to connect with your vision, leadership, or direction. Bob will always be a worker friendly advocate with no history of management and until you prove your worth likewise here, exepct to get some challenge and greive from my keyboard.

Side Note: The ring leaders of "TEAM TWU" in Tulsa during the AMFA drive were:
Kevin Hammack - AA/TWU
Kevin Thompson - AA/TWU
Kirk Wells - AA/TWU
Jerry Sowells - IAM/NWA

Here are their current status:
Kevin Hammack - AA Management ASAP
Kevin Thompson - AA Supervisor Stores
Kirk Wells - Resigned AA to work elsewhere
Jerry Sowells - Scab at NWA crossed AMFA picket line

I could give you a long list of previous TWU Officers that went to management.


Where will you be Pete when times get tough and courage is required in your profession?

 

[Bob Owens]

OK Bob;

I will answer your question. I believe that the membership has the ultimate authority over its elected officials. I believe that if the membership desires a change; ie, recall of officers, the voting record of Board members etc, that they have that right. If a member makes a motion, and that motion passes, then it will be done. As a board member, I will not oppose such a motion.

Ok, so I will take that as a yes, you do believe that the members have the right to know how the E-board votes. That said how come you time and time again motioned or supported E-board motions that called for witholding such information?

You on the other hand seem to want to take control over everything with a small but boisterous minority.

I beg to differ. Pete, the last time I was allowed to run I think I recieved around 70% of the vote in a three way race, whereas the last time you ran you only garnered around 30% of the vote in a four way race. Clearly the majority of the people who cast ballots did not choose you Pete so you are the one who has taken control with a minority.

You had the opportunity as treasurer of Local 562 to make such changes. Is it that you only want "openness" when you are RUNNING for office?

Pete you know that I have always told people how I vote and I always opposed keeping it secret. The fact is that unlike now information was put out because we, Levere, Frank(R.I.P.), Jimmy, Joe and myself demanded that Gless release information so it really wasnt an issue. The Presidents council minutes were posted and Gless had to submit weekly reports to the board about negotiations. We didnt have officers saying they were "like mushrooms" when it came to what was going on.

Dont forget when you were Treasurer I was Section Chaimain at JFK, and had no voting rights on the board.

You must have forgotten that the Board voted to allow section chairmen to vote on issues pertaining to their station, so you had voting priviliges and your vote was counted as an equal vote. I was also Treasurer while you were an E-board member and had full voting rights and you exercised those rights by voting against challenging the International. "Why do we always have to be the ones causing trouble" you lamented after being on the losing side of the vote.

So that calls into question your leadership and integrity, and what if anything you can bring to the table in the future. You have denegrated this forum into a mud sliging contest.

I believe the term "pot calling the kettle ,,,, applies here.

Anyone who disagerees with your view must be wrong, or stupid.

No Pete thats your attitude and its that attitude that helped foster the incidences that led to "The Corabi Chop".

You challenge our victories in restoring jobs to our members, you act as though these guys were fired for going to the bathroom for too long. They were all fired for sleeping on the job, in blankets, beds and hiding.

Careful here Pete, you've got your management hat again on at a union discussion.

Once again you distort the facts to make yourself look better. Nobody was hiding. Hiding implies that they were evading detection, there was no attempt to hide and you know it. Sleeping on the job was condoned as far back as Blackie can remember. The company's actions were way out of line. They have the right to no longer condone sleeping but they could have easily put a stop to it without taking such drastic action.

And like it or not, I presented them, and was proud of my membership for all of their help. And so you know the 2 cases at JFK were precidents. Look it up! If you were out on the street, I dont think that you would call it a "draw" that your got your job back.

Of course its a draw, the grievances called for the members to be made whole did it not? "Made whole" means reinstatement and back pay.


I'll admit that the guys who returned to work were glad they got their jobs back but that doesnt mean that they would agree that it was a victory, they were still unjustly removed from service and lost thousands of dollars in pay that they should not have lost. Although they are relieved to have their jobs back they certianly dont feel like they won.

Or maybe you dont care since you have a nice second source of income with your brothers landscaping business. Well Bob, some of us are not so fortunate, and we need our jobs!

Admittedly Pete I'll admit I am fortunate in that I have three successful brothers and I take great pride and joy in their success but that doesnt mean that I dont need my job. In fact I'm the sole provider for my family, (are you?) so yes I do maintain a second source of income like the majority of my coworkers. I could go on and highlight how you took off your union hat and put on your TCC hat to insure that you had ample OT, making your annual earnings comparable to International officers, which in turn meant that you didnt require a second income, but I prefer keep this civil.

Want to talk about Recall now? What did the E-board do with the motion for recall that was made at a membership meeting? Did you support that? How did you vote?

 

[Bob Owens]

OK Informant;

Ill bite. I guess that transparency and open conversation dont mean too much to you, or you would tell me who you are.

Hmm? So you never posted under an alias Pete? You just found this site a few days ago? Why dont you demand that Observer reveal her identity?

We all just saw how you refused to answer a pretty straitforward fair question and then when you did "answer it" did so in TWU contract style language. Is that your idea of transparency?

So in the absence of knowing, I will address you as Mr. Management.

Hey isnt that what people at JFK call you?

Now, here is my Bio

6/9/86 - Junior Mechanic
7/87 - M E Training Instructor (management position)
9/89 - Left managment ( I did not like it) Re-Hired as an AMT

The 1989 contract cut the years to top so people who were hired the same day as Pete, who stayed union were making more as mechanics than Pete was as management.

7/92 - to Present - Tech Crew Chief JFK - And yes, I like what I do.

Note TCCs phased in, Tech Formen phased out.

11/99 - Elected Section Chairman JFK Local 562. I never liked how the AMT's were treated with
501, so I figured it is better to get involved and try to make a difference, rather than BS
about it all day long.
9/2002 - Elected E-Board Local 562
9/2003 or thereabout - Elected Treasurer of Local 562, after Owens was removed from office

Correction, appointed to Treasurer after I was removed, election called for but no one put in for the position because they were filling out AMFA cards. All the appointments went unchallenged.

11/2005 - Elected Vice-President of Local 562

As you can see, I was elected by a majority of the members in my local. I am very proud to serve them and will continue to do so for as long as they want me too.

Not even close.
Majority-a number or percentage equaling more than half of a total. The majority of members did not vote for Pete. Not even the majority of those who voted did so for Pete. Pete got the most votes out of the four candidates who ran but most of the votes cast were not for Pete. Not even the majority of the "votes cast" were for Pete so Pete's claim "I was elected by a majority of the members in my local" is false.

As far as the convention minutes go, I did not know that I was required to do anything for you. As stated before, I believe that Owens account is accurate. I also have no aspirations of going to the TWU International. I like working on airplanes.

Between his union salary and his OT going to the International would probably not be much of an increase.

 

[Pete Corabi VP562]

Hmm? So you never posted under an alias Pete? You just found this site a few days ago? Why dont you demand that Observer reveal her identity?

We all just saw how you refused to answer a pretty straitforward fair question and then when you did "answer it" did so in TWU contract style language.



Hey isnt that what people at JFK call you?



The 1989 contract cut the years to top so people who were hired the same day as Pete, who stayed union were making more, management refused to bring Petes pay up so he went back on the floor.




Correction, appointed to Treasurer after I was removed, election called for but no one put in for the position because they were filling out AMFA cards so ballotts were never sent out.



Not even close.
Majority-a number or percentage equaling more than half of a total. The majority of members did not vote for Pete. Not even the majority of those who voted did so for Pete. Pete got the most votes out of the four candidates who ran but most of the votes cast were not for Pete. Not even the majority of the "votes cast" were for Pete so Pete's claim "I was elected by a majority of the members in my local" is false.




Between his union salary and his OT going to the International would probably not be much of an increase.

Bob;

I NEVER posted on this site before. I can handle the pressure without hiding. They call me lots of things, some things cant be posted. I can take it. But I am not hiding who I am. "Informer" is.

You are right Bob, the 1989 contract proved to me that being in a Union was the right thing to do. So I made a mistake 20 years ago, whats your excuse? I did not like how management treated people so I left.

Correction, I was not appointed, I ran UNOPPOSED. There was too much time left of your term to be appointed. But you were licking your wounds, so I'll give you a pass.

OK Bob, I was elected by a majority of those who cast ballots. Happy?

I NEVER revieved ot for "going to the international" Any UB time that I recieved was for time lost at work. 8 hours period. Look it up in the financial report.

Yes I work OT. I am NOT off the clock. I work my bid shift. Problem with that?

I can recall when you were treasurer you would rack up your UB while at work and then go off to Ireland for 3 weeks and call youself on UB. Was there a Local Office in Dublin that I missed? You are a most disingenuous fact twister.

 

[Pete Corabi VP562]

Ok, so I will take that as a yes, you do believe that the members have the right to know how the E-board votes. That said how come you time and time again motioned or supported E-board motions that called for witholding such information?



I beg to differ. Pete, the last time I was allowed to run I think I recieved around 70% of the vote in a three way race, whereas the last time you ran you only garnered around 30% of the vote in a four way race. Clearly the majority of the people who cast ballots did not choose you Pete so you are the one who has taken control with a minority.




Pete you know that I have always told people how I vote and I always opposed keeping it secret. The fact is that unlike now information was put out because we, Levere, Frank(R.I.P.), Jimmy, Joe and myself demanded that Gless release information so it really wasnt an issue. The Presidents council minutes were posted and Gless had to submit weekly reports to the board about negotiations. We didnt have officers saying they were "like mushrooms" when it came to what was going on.



You must have forgotten that the Board voted to allow section chairmen to vote on issues pertaining to their station, so you had voting priviliges and your vote was counted as an equal vote. I was also Treasurer while you were an E-board member and had full voting rights.




I believe the term "pot calling the kettle ,,,, applies here.



No Pete thats your attitude and its that attitude that helped foster the incidences that led to "The Corabi Chop".



Careful here Pete, you've got your management hat again on at a union discussion.

Once again you distort the facts to make yourself look better. Nobody was hiding. Hiding implies that they were evading detection, there was no attempt to hide and you know it. Sleeping on the job was condoned as far back as Blackie can remember. The company's actions were way out of line. They have the right to no longer condone sleeping but they could have easily put a stop to it without taking such drastic action.




Of course its a draw, the grievances called for the members to be made whole did it not? "Made whole" means reinstatement and back pay.


I'll admit that the guys who returned to work were glad they got their jobs back but that doesnt mean that they would agree that it was a victory, they were still unjustly removed from service and lost thousands of dollars in pay that they should not have lost. Although they are relieved to have their jobs back they certianly dont feel like they won.



Admittedly Pete I'll admit I am fortunate in that I have three successful brothers and I take great pride and joy in their success but that doesnt mean that I dont need my job. In fact I'm the sole provider for my family, (are you?) so yes I do maintain a second source of income like the majority of my coworkers. I could go on and highlight how you took off your union hat and put on your TCC hat to insure that you had ample OT, making your annual earnings comparable to International officers, which in turn meant that you didnt require a second income, but I prefer keep this civil.

Want to talk about Recall now? What did the E-board do with the motion for recall that was made at a membership meeting? Did you support that? How did you vote?

Bob;

Please give facts. What were the motions and how were they written?

I believe that only one person ran against you, so what? I had the most votes and was elected. Happy?

Please expand on the context of your "mushroom" statement. Or is that too much "free flow" of information?? As far as what I was told about negotiations, I already addressed that in a prior post.

Yeah, I could vote at the joint meeting. But you also had "officers" meetings from time to time. Point is, you NEVER spoke up about any of the changes that you hold so dearly now.

You clearly do not want to give others credit for anything. Im sure that if you won the sleeping case, you would have banners flying from bridges proclaiming your victory! But you cant win from a lap top, can you?

I tried to be positive when I started writting this post, and I have always given you credit for what you have done, but your negative comments against my accomplishments speak volumes of your insecurity.

Why dont you want others to know about what this local has done? Are you afraid that it will somhow diminish your position?

Bob, you have done little to keep this civil. As an employee and a member in good standing, I have the right to work OT when it is offered. My Union hat is always ON. I will tell you my earnings if you tell me yours. I bet you made more! P.S. include you "other" income.

I am glad that you got through your rhetoric to talk about that motion.

The motion was made for the recall of officers. The recall process could be started if 25% of the membership called for the recall. At that point a vote for recall would take place.

I am sure that you will correct me if Im not 100%.

I opposed the motion as written because I do not think that a minority of members has the right to control the Local, because the officer in question would be unable to perform his duties even if 75% of the local voted for him in a general election only 25% could suspend him until a recall vote took place. I did not feel that the motion was fair the way it was written.
If a new motion were to be submitted with a 50% +1 requirement to start the recall, then I would have voted for it.

If you come to the next meeting with that motion, I will support it.

So yes, I do support recall, but only if supported by the majority of the membership.

The rest of the e-board felt the same way, including one of your running mates!