What would happend if we merge again?

[USA320Pilot]

Reed,

Reed said: "Your logic concerning the T/A and Nic being the list is tired, simply wrong, and years old."

The US Airways East and West pilot contract, LOA 96, Section 4.A., states: "The seniority lists of the America West pilots and the US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the airline parties for acceptance. The Airline Parties will accept such integrated seniority list.

USA320Pilot comments: Reed, the pilot's contract does not say could or should, but instead says will. Again, this is the reason USAPA will always be DFR. This has nothing to do with logic. It has everything to do with contract law; along with final and binding.

USA320Pilot

 

[Reed Richards]

Reed,

Reed said: "Your logic concerning the T/A and Nic being the list is tired, simply wrong, and years old."

The US Airways East and West pilot contract, LOA 96, Section 4.A., states: "The seniority lists of the America West pilots and the US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the airline parties for acceptance. The Airline Parties will accept such integrated seniority list.

USA320Pilot comments: Reed, the pilot's contract does not say could or should, but instead says will. Again, this is the reason USAPA will always be DFR. This has nothing to do with logic. It has everything to do with contract law; along with final and binding.

USA320Pilot

No. You know better. Not "ALPA" Merger Policy. On 18 April 08 USAPA was inserted in place of all things ALPA.

USAPA Merger Policy rules. And the Ninth has made it crystal clear USAPA could negotiate in good faith for a list of its choosing, under a threat of DFR (as is always the case) following a ratified contract.

Come on. You can do better than this. Why not go back to this very board in Spring of 08 and get this all out your system.

By the way, what do you think will happen to the current TA in another merger? It will have to be amended. Yes, amended under the same threat of a DFR from any individual or group.

RR

 

[Move2CLT]

No. You know better. Not "ALPA" Merger Policy. On 18 April 08 USAPA was inserted in place of all things ALPA.

USAPA Merger Policy rules. And the Ninth has made it crystal clear USAPA could negotiate in good faith for a list of its choosing, under a threat of DFR (as is always the case) following a ratified contract.

Come on. You can do better than this. Why not go back to this very board in Spring of 08 and get this all out your system.

By the way, what do you think will happen to the current TA in another merger? It will have to be amended. Yes, amended under the same threat of a DFR from any individual or group.

RR

But the Nic would stay intact along with our current CBAs and your LOA93

 

[CallawayGolf]

No. You know better. Not "ALPA" Merger Policy. On 18 April 08 USAPA was inserted in place of all things ALPA.

USAPA Merger Policy rules. And the Ninth has made it crystal clear USAPA could negotiate in good faith for a list of its choosing, under a threat of DFR (as is always the case) following a ratified contract.

RR

Really? Can you show us all the modified and amended TA which now shows USAPA instead of ALAP? What date did the parties who signed the TA sign the addendum or amendments and who signed for each of the parties represented by the original TA? Did the Company or USAPA submit this evidence to judge Silver on the DJ matter? In fact, why is there a DJ matter in a federal district court if USAPA has now been substituted for ALAP in the TA? The Company claims in it's filings and motions before judge Silver that the Ninth made the SLI process less clear, not more clear. Now I wonder who has things more correct, you RR or the Company's legal team who convinced Silver to deny USAPA's MTD and also declare that the Company's DJ matter is fully ripe for judicial relief? Have the Company attorneys lost a single legal matter against USAPA yet?

 

[Phoenix]

Reed,

Reed said: "Your logic concerning the T/A and Nic being the list is tired, simply wrong, and years old."

The US Airways East and West pilot contract, LOA 96, Section 4.A., states: "The seniority lists of the America West pilots and the US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the airline parties for acceptance. The Airline Parties will accept such integrated seniority list.

USA320Pilot comments: Reed, the pilot's contract does not say could or should, but instead says will. Again, this is the reason USAPA will always be DFR. This has nothing to do with logic. It has everything to do with contract law; along with final and binding.

USA320Pilot

LOA 96 is subordinate to too many things that you hope are subject to it. Your world is upside down. The world does not revolve around LOA 96, even it acknowledged an reserved the right that everything in the letter could be altered through negotiations between the two parties that were in negotiations and made the agreement. Nothing new. The seniority issue is still an internal union dispute that is irrelevant to who has the authority and responsibility for negotiations.

The 9th already confirmed the two parties are in negotiations. The internal union dispute has no standing in the court and will not until the two lawful parties complete negotiations and a contract is ratified. Sure, folks will run around to lots of different judges to shop their whining but all roads lead to the SCOTUS, who already acknowledged the 9th.

Flapping your arms about an LOA, as if negotiations are forbidden, while in the midst of negotiations is like rowing a john boat at the top of Niagara falls to halt the water.

Don't forget, when rowing a boat... to push the water upstream, you must row down stream.

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA cannot pick and choose which parts of the contract it wants to abide by and which parts of the contract it wants to reject. USAPA Merger Policy does not rule, which is why we do not have a DOH list. As Judge Wake noted in its Findings of FActs USAPA mislead the pilots.

USAPA can negotiate in good faith for a list of its choosing, under a threat of an "unquestionably for (for) DFR petition, following a ratified contract. But, the union will be DFR if the seniority integration is changed, it could face hundreds of millions of dollars in damages, and then be forced to use the Nicolau Award.

During any potential merger process with AMR the DJ lawsuit will proceed and US Airways will accept Judge Silver's decision because LOA 96, Section 4. A., requires ALPA or USAPA to implement the Nicolau Award.

Furthermore, any more delay by USAPA and its supporters is simply hurting the majority of US Airways pilots for a segment of pilots who have their own special interest/desire to staple the vast majority another pilot group to the bottom of the joint seniority list.

USA320Pilot

 

[Dog Wonder]

Here come the knuckledragging pilots and the corporate pot stirrers again.

 

[Phoenix]

Hey, Keymaster...

"Negotiations" is all about haggling and bargaining over what you want to pick and choose. Abiding happens after the picking and choosing is complete and the choices are ratified.

 

[Beancounter]

But the Nic would stay intact along with our current CBAs and your LOA93

If this is true, once Doug has the east pilots under LOA93 in the next merger, the incentive he once had to have a single list(help in financing merger) will be gone. Wow, goodbye 3-5 years to next contract, hello 10yrs plus.

 

[Move2CLT]

If this is true, once Doug has the east pilots under LOA93 in the next merger, the incentive he once had to have a single list(help in financing merger) will be gone. Wow, goodbye 3-5 years to next contract, hello 10yrs plus.

Don't worry, it's ok with the easties. They say it doesn't bother them. Besides, they all have highly successful businesses.

 

[Harry Callahan]

What happens if we merge move2clt will be busted to the ramp

 

[fodase]

No. You know better. Not "ALPA" Merger Policy. On 18 April 08 USAPA was inserted in place of all things ALPA.

USAPA Merger Policy rules. And the Ninth has made it crystal clear USAPA could negotiate in good faith for a list of its choosing, under a threat of DFR (as is always the case) following a ratified contract.

Come on. You can do better than this. Why not go back to this very board in Spring of 08 and get this all out your system.

By the way, what do you think will happen to the current TA in another merger? It will have to be amended. Yes, amended under the same threat of a DFR from any individual or group.

RR

Hey Einstein, what came first: The Nic. presented and accepted by the company as required or usapa?

 

[Barrister]

The chances of that scenario happening, regardless of leadership, is nil.

There are so many things wrong with that post that it's stupid to even bring up. It just shows your complete lack of understanding of the process.

Why in hell would the west pilot, represented by USAPA, want a do- over?

Because without it you will wither...rot...and die a slow death
in PHX...clear enough for ya!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Move2CLT]

PHX is great. Coming up on 16 years.

Speaking of slow deaths - no pension and LOA 93.

Clear enough for you?

 

[USA320Pilot]

LOA 96 is subordinate to too many things that you hope are subject to it. Your world is upside down. The world does not revolve around LOA 96, even it acknowledged an reserved the right that everything in the letter could be altered through negotiations between the two parties that were in negotiations and made the agreement. Nothing new. The seniority issue is still an internal union dispute that is irrelevant to who has the authority and responsibility for negotiations.

The 9th already confirmed the two parties are in negotiations. The internal union dispute has no standing in the court and will not until the two lawful parties complete negotiations and a contract is ratified. Sure, folks will run around to lots of different judges to shop their whining but all roads lead to the SCOTUS, who already acknowledged the 9th.

Flapping your arms about an LOA, as if negotiations are forbidden, while in the midst of negotiations is like rowing a john boat at the top of Niagara falls to halt the water.

Don't forget, when rowing a boat... to push the water upstream, you must row down stream.

Yea right, that's why there is no DOH list now. Final and Binding is Final and Binding. Furthermore, Mike Abram told every US Airways pilot in a letter what would happen and the majority of East pilots did not listen. To read how we were warned click here.