What to do about Columbus??

[N905AW]

sfb:

I didn't mean to argue the reason why America West and Southwest have larger operations in PHX and LAS than in CMH. As you said, Phoenix and Las Vegas are much larger markets than Columbus, and therefor warrant more service. I agree completely. The point I was trying to make was that both airlines have been able to coexist in both markets, and that they should be able to do the same in Columbus.

There's no question that there will be some effect on the amount of connecting traffic between Columbus and Toronto once nonstops to Phoenix and Las Vegas start. However I think that YYZ-CMH will continue to be a viable route for America West. BWI, BDL, and PHL remain strong routes from CMH, even though all 3 currently have nonstop service to both PHX and LAS.

I checked travelocity for fares between ORD and BOS for mid-October and found that America West is offering $178 round-trip with a connection in CMH. While it's not $99, it's still quite inexpensive, and as you stated, RJ connections are costly. I wonder if a fare like that is enough to make money while remaining competitive with those airlines that offer the route nonstop.

 

[MiAAmi]

[blockquote]
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On 9/14/2002 12:06:39 AM N905AW wrote:

The airline that Barbee is hinting to is United Airlines. Currently, they occupy gates B28 and B29, which are next to America West's gates. The plan is for United to move to Concourse C, and for America West to lease B28 and B29.

sfb:

[/blockquote]

When will UA move to terminal C?

 

[Chicken Taco]

Sometime after they finish rapaving the large holes in the B-north / C-east ramp. Currently B-16, 18, and the east few C-gates (dunno the numbers but DL's old gates) as well as the E-2 taxiway bridge are unusable due to lots of missing concrete. This should hopefully be finished this construction season, in a month or so. Right now it's a mess there with two of the four north ramp entrances closed. The rumor we're hearing in CMH is mainline will take B-19, 21, 23, 25 (south side) and possibly 28, 29 short term, with 28 and 29 being made RJ compatible or else being replaced by another set of DEW bridges.

 

[motnot]

So which gates does AWA currently use? Those on the south side (B16,18,20,22,24,26)?

 

[N905AW]

America West currently uses gates B16, 18, 20, 22, 24, and 26 on the north side of Concourse B, all equiped with Dew Bridges for Chautauqua RJ's. On the south side, America West uses B17, 19, 21, 23, and 25. All are mainline gates, however gates B19 and B23 usually have 2 RJ's parked there. Passengers board the aircraft via air stairs brought up to the jetway. Hopefully United will move soon so we can get all RJ's using covered walkways.

 

[MiAAmi]

With the new gates to be added, will we be seeing any new flights from CMH?

 

[barbee tantrum]

[blockquote]
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On 10/9/2002 4:42:57 PM MiAAmi wrote:

With the new gates to be added, will we be seeing any new flights from CMH?
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[/blockquote]

Nothing announced as of yet. They still have dewbridges to install and United will probably have to be poked with a stick to move. Doubt that they plan to leave the gates idle.

 

[Chicken Taco]

Seems that United will require more than prodding with a stick to move to C, perhaps a Taser. Apparently they have an excellent location with B-29 in that it's on the end of the concourse with apron all around it. While only leasing 2 gates, they effectively have one mainline spot on 28, and one mainline plus 2 express spots on 29. Half price gates. Additionally, WN is currently occupying DL's old gates because now there's missing concrete in front of their gates. guess i need to go re-read the master plan to figure out the timing for all of this

 

[trvlr64]

Hey AWA......how about making PIT a hub instead of CMH? Bigger airport, better market, and lord knows that concourses C and D are wide open.

Help us captured PIT area residents.....please!! With USAirways converting concourse A into an EXPRESS jet terminal, if you brought in the Airbuses you might see a big customer base switch to you.

Just a thought.

 

[N905AW]

AirTran already tried it. As long as USAirways is still around, you probably won't see any airlines trying to hub at PIT. Personally, I think USAirways will be around for some time to come, but that's a topic for a different forum. For now, airlines will just continue to try and eat away market share (i.e. America West starting PHX-PIT). The current trend in the airline industry is to replace mainline jets with regionals anyway, so even if America West were to move operations to PIT, you'd just see Chautauqua RJ's painted in America West colors instead of USAirways.

 

[trvlr64]

True statement about AirTran, but they didn't have enough destinations to warrant any flying by me. But AWA does. I am looking forward to flying AWA.

Also true statement about the RJ's but again this airport could support another major player since it's pratically empty.

 

[barbee tantrum]

[blockquote]
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On 10/10/2002 9:56:29 PM Chicken Taco wrote:

Seems that United will require more than prodding with a stick to move to C, perhaps a Taser. Apparently they have an excellent location with B-29 in that it's on the end of the concourse with apron all around it. While only leasing 2 gates, they effectively have one mainline spot on 28, and one mainline plus 2 express spots on 29. Half price gates. Additionally, WN is currently occupying DL's old gates because now there's missing concrete in front of their gates. guess i need to go re-read the master plan to figure out the timing for all of this ..CT
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[/blockquote]

The construction near WN gates are scheduled to be completed Nov 15. WN will move back to their gate then. United will then move to their new gates at Concourse C. It seems they are putting up a fuss as the rent at the new gates is higher. The airport is not giving them much choice but UA may fight it to the end. The airport really wants HP expansion. The airport will not tolerate 2 gates sitting idle. They already have 1 idle gate at Concourse C that they are pretty sore about. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/4.gif']

 

[barbee tantrum]

[blockquote]
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On 10/10/2002 9:56:29 PM Chicken Taco wrote:

Seems that United will require more than prodding with a stick to move to C, perhaps a Taser. Apparently they have an excellent location with B-29 in that it's on the end of the concourse with apron all around it. While only leasing 2 gates, they effectively have one mainline spot on 28, and one mainline plus 2 express spots on 29. Half price gates. Additionally, WN is currently occupying DL's old gates because now there's missing concrete in front of their gates. guess i need to go re-read the master plan to figure out the timing for all of this ..CT
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[/blockquote]

DL effectively handled mainline flights and RJs at the same time at their old gates. I'm sure that UA can handle it. The airport seems to be of the mindset that UA needs to move so as not to impede progress and growth.
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/13.gif']

 

[funguy2]

True statement about AirTran, but they didn't have enough destinations to warrant any flying by me. But AWA does. I am looking forward to flying AWA.

Also true statement about the RJ's but again this airport could support another major player since it's pratically empty.

While it is true that there is plenty of space at PIT, the local market could probably not support 2 hub carriers. Only a very few of the US's largest and most geographically lucky cities can support 2 hubs... And now, there is usually a major and a minor as opposed to the 2 or more major hubs of the past. I am think specifically of ATL, ORD, DEN, and DFW. PIT just simply doesn't have the traffic that those cities do.

And the experiments at PIT by a number of small low fare airlines like Nations Air, Jet Train, Vanguard and AirTran all suggest that PIT flyers don't support the new service. Sure, the airport and historically high fares lure them in... USAir matches low their low fares, and retains the market share based on its FF program. (If I can fly PIT-MDW for the same low fare on AirTran or US Air, I might as well get my US Air miles...)

Based on this, any new low fare service to PIT will be into a hub, like AWA's PHX-PIT or AirTran's ATL-PIT. Its not feasible for these carriers to do point-to-point at PIT as has been proven time and time again... Even if Southwest enters the PIT market, they will probably fly to their hubs at MDW, STL, BWI and BNA. I doubt you would see PIT-DTW or PIT-MHT or PIT-BDL or too many other point-to-points... Just look at the new services they have added in that region... at BUF and ALB.

Just my opinion...

 

[trvlr64]

I think PIT could support a major and a minor airline. The reason that AirTran, Vanguard and the others didn't last is because they didn't have a route structure to support flying them. AWA does. A rather good one from what I see on their route map.

Us loyal USAirways PAX are seeking more alternatives to our travel needs. Yes it will be nice to have the United codeshare, but I think it's just the precursor to a final merger in the future. And once that happens the PIT airport will become lost as an unnecessary hub.

Part of the problem with USAirways having PIT as a hub was caused by our county commissioners 10-15 years ago. They are gone and we have new blood. Hopefully they will see the potential of another carrier (I see a letter writing campaign...LOL)

Just wishful thinking. I know I will give AWA a chance that I didn't give the other entrants into the PIT airport. I want to go to Cabo San Lucas!!