What to do about Columbus??

[barbee tantrum]

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On 9/11/2002 1:49:47 AM motnot wrote:

So barbee, what does "Phase 3" entail? And I'm assuming you work for AWA. If so, would you care to share in what capacity?
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[/blockquote]

As Frankenfurter says in Rocky Horror Picture Show I see you shiver with antici --- pation.

 

[N905AW]

Heheheh, I think it would be possible divulge a bit of information concerning phase 3 of America West's hub expansion at CMH, eh Barbee?

 

[barbee tantrum]

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On 9/11/2002 8:37:44 PM N905AW wrote:

Heheheh, I think it would be possible divulge a bit of information concerning phase 3 of America West's hub expansion at CMH, eh Barbee?


Now, this information can be found on the website for the BusinessFirst Newspaper of Columbus. Phase 2 was the addition of 6 regional jet gates stradling the north part of Concourse B. Phase 3 will add 6 more regional jet gates as well as new boarding lounges. As for possible new flights as a result of the expanded facilities, that remains a mystery. BusinessFirst's website is [url="http://columbus.bizjournals.com"]http://columbus.bizjournals.com[/url] all you need to do is search "Port Columbus" and you should eventually find an article, about a year old, concerning these plans. The website does require you to fill out some information before being able to access the archives.
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[/blockquote]

6 RJ gates with a possible 7 RJ gates. Isn't there a regular (mainline) gate also? Large capital expenditures are pretty much prohibited with the ATSB loan package, so I'm seeing big wrinkles in the plan. The infrastructure, as it now stands, is unable to support the flights at CMH now. The bag room needs to be enlarged, ground equipment needs purchased, and so on. Hopefully, the powers that be will have already considered this. Any expansion at CMH will need to be done conservatively. Anyhoo, expect a good bit of gate space to open up when you-know-who moves out of their gates over to you-know-where at the end of the year.[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/7.gif']

 

[motnot]

I can be a bit dense, and I'm afraid I don't who you-know-is or where you-know-where is or why you-know-who is moving to you-know-where.

 

[barbee tantrum]

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On 9/12/2002 9:58:48 AM colorado14hi wrote:

U is on the verge of reducing flights that will open up space for AWE possibly??
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Nope. US Airways is in a different concourse. Passengers would have to go through security again. That wouldn't work out. It's another airline.

 

[colorado14hi]

U is on the verge of reducing flights that will open up space for AWE possibly??

 

[MiAAmi]

Looks like HP will have more competition out of CMH with the addition of 3 DL commuter flights from CMH-DCA effective Nov 1

 

[barbee tantrum]

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On 9/12/2002 1:03:34 PM MiAAmi wrote:

Looks like HP will have more competition out of CMH with the addition of 3 DL commuter flights from CMH-DCA effective Nov 1
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As of Oct 27, we lose the Airbus flight to DCA which, on a good day, carried 40 passengers. That flight is now going to be an ERJ-145. With 3 ERJ flights to DCA we can compete well with the other carriers to DCA, US Airways and Comair. The more the merrier, I say. I just believe that there is way too much capacity to DCA, as it now stands.

 

[motnot]

barbee, you think you could clear up the confusion from your previous posts, those things which you hinted at but didn't really say?

sfb, you make some good points. I do think AWA is taking the right steps with CMH. BOS and YYZ are doing very well, of course, and those are good-yielding markets.

The bottom line as to more mainline long-haul service (SEA, SFO, PDX) is what I've been saying this whole thread: that AWA has more profitable expansion in PHX, at least for now, and rightfully is focusing its growth there.

 

[sfb]

Well, the reason why CMH-DCA is a weak route is because the fares are so high! Walk-up round-trip on AWA on this route is $730 -- hardly a low-fare offering. Contrast that with America West's CMH-BWI service which is $182 round-trip (incidentally, matching WN's fare. This difference is reflected in the passenger totals; CMH-BWI draws well over twice as many daily passengers as CMH-DCA/IAD -- with an average fare that's over 40% lower.

The main problems with CMH are threefold. One is that WN is present in the market, which limits the fare levels for HP and other airlines in markets where they compete. Most of the airports which aren't reachable on WN from CMH are (1) large network hubs, (2) congested/slot-limited airports like BOS, LGA, DCA, or (3) service markets which can't really support much service to CMH. America West already offers service to most of the airports which could be put in the second category. And that has meant that most of the new service additions have been to other network hubs -- DFW, ATL, YYZ; they're also serving PHL, ORD, and EWR. I have my doubts about the CMH-MCO service, given that DL Express is back on the route and WN serves it as well.

The second problem is that CMH is a relatively small market -- especially for a connecting hub. Adding to that is the fact that it's surrounded by a half-dozen competing hubs, all in stronger markets and with broader arrays of service (2 at ORD, CVG, CLE, PIT, DTW). The two together make it tough to generate high-margin O&D traffic as well as the connecting flow needed to make a network hub work. Add to that the third problem -- CMH, like IND, is one of the most fragmented markets in the U.S.

While CMH does indeed have enough passenger demand to justify daily flights to SEA, SFO, SAN, PDX, the yields are just terrible -- most are in the range of 7.5-9 cents/mile. Even HP's yields on CMH-LAX are about 7.2 cents/mile (or were as of 3Q01).

To be honest, I don't know what is to be done about Columbus -- the area had good growth in the 1990's, but it seems to me that it will still be difficult to make much money there with the network hub business model.

 

[N905AW]

The airline that Barbee is hinting to is United Airlines. Currently, they occupy gates B28 and B29, which are next to America West's gates. The plan is for United to move to Concourse C, and for America West to lease B28 and B29.

sfb:

Southwest does serve CMH, yes, but they also serve PHX and LAS, and their operations in those two cities are much larger than the 16 daily flights flown from Columbus. Southwest and America West have always been in competition, so it shouldn't be much more difficult to contend with them in Columbus than in their hubs in Phoenix and Las Vegas.
Also, regarding MCO, the second daily nonstop is supposed to resume in late December, coinciding with the resumption of seasonal nonstop service between CMH and RSW. Probably the main reason why America West even attempted the route from CMH again was becuase after September 11 last year, Delta Express pulled 3 of their 4 nonstops on the CMH-MCO route. America West saw an opportunity and jumped on it. It looks like America West's presense on the route has had an affect, since Delta Express operations in CMH will be transferred to Delta Connection with Chautauqua ERJ-145's starting in November.

Even though CMH is small market, it doesn't have that great of an affect on the amount of connecting traffic that flows through the hub. One of the main reasons why Toronto is doing so well is the large amount of connecting traffic. It's not uncommon for the Toronto flight during the 4 o'clock bank to be made up almost completely of connecting passengers. Many of the other flights to cities such as PHL, ORD and BWI also fly out with more than half of the passengers being connecting. In addition, CMH is stronger in terms of O&D traffic than CVG, yet Delta operates their second largest hub there.

You hit the nail on the head concerning Western expansion from CMH. The yields are extremely low. I don't know how much of an effect the new pricing structure has had on the route, but yields I'm sure are still a problem, especially with United and all the other majors charging outrageous prices such as $270 round trip for a walkup fare between Columbus and Los Angeles, while America West charges around $700.

 

[barbee tantrum]

n905aw, curses on you! You have foiled my attempt to make motnot and others BEG for clarification! Phase 3 deserves suspense and drama! Over several weeks, I would have dropped hints and innuendo only to make them PLEAD for a story! But, alas, you saw fit to appease the masses who want answers NOW NOW NOW... May your camel be struck by a pox.

Yes, dear readers, after extensive apron renovations United will move, according to plan, to Concourse C. This will deliver unto us 2 gates. Both gates will be the entry for a long Dew (www.dew.ca) corridor which will lead unto 6 (possibly 7!) Dew bridges. If this subscriber has looked at the schematics correctly, there will also be another gate for large aircraft.

By the Year of Our Lord 2008, another terminal shall be in operation. This terminal will be expandable to 34 gates. Will America West occupy a terminal of its own, in the future?[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif']

 

[barbee tantrum]

Take a look at www.port-columbus.com. Click Port Columbus Airport Statistics. Amazing stuff. Passenger loads for America West and America West Express have had a significant increase without much change in number of flights. Interesting reading. Compare to the other airlines! Very interesting. A success story?

 

[barbee tantrum]

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On 9/16/2002 10:36:00 PM barbee tantrum wrote:

Take a look at www.port-columbus.com. Click "Port Columbus Airport Statistics". Amazing stuff. Passenger loads for America West and America West Express have had a significant increase without much change in number of flights. Interesting reading. Compare to the other airlines! Very interesting. A success story?


Look at the stats and discuss.
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Check monthly comparisons. Use the PDF prinatble format. Much easier on the eyes. This will blow your socks off!
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/10.gif']

 

[sfb]

N905AW-

There's a reason WN has much larger operations at PHX and LAS (and why AWA does as well): Both are simply far larger markets. Moreover, lower fare levels at both drive larger passenger numbers and larger operations. That's also the reason for higher O&D numbers at CMH as compared to CVG; fares are over 50% above average at CVG, compared to 10% below average at CMH. CVG would be a bloodbath if there were serious low-fare competition there.

There's a good reason for large amounts of connecting traffic to YYZ -- CMH is currently the only link to YYZ in the route system. I imagine that the loads will drop quite a bit when the YYZ-PHX and YYZ-LAS flights start. And connecting traffic is great if you've got lots of high-yield O&D or if the fares on the connecting itineraries are relatively high; however, if you're having to sell lots of deeply discounted fares to fill those flights with connections, then you're not doing too well. $99 BOS-ORD round-trips with a connection on RJ's aren't big money-makers.