What the deal AMP

[Buck]

Strength in numbers!!!!!! LMFAO!

I have to disagree with you. Fleet Service has strength in numbers over the Mechanics and always have.
It is probably a good reason to use them now, lets get the TA so we can stop AMP. Wait, skip the TA, just have
Fleet Service adopt a Puppy ( Mechanic ) and instruct them to play nice.

 

[Traymark]

 

[MetalMover]

I have to disagree with you. Fleet Service has strength in numbers over the Mechanics and always have.
It is probably a good reason to use them now, lets get the TA so we can stop AMP. Wait, skip the TA, just have
Fleet Service adopt a Puppy ( Mechanic ) and instruct them to play nice.

True. But the gist of my point was this age old union mantra of "STRENGTH IN NUMBERS" has done nothing for any of us in this industry. The airline worker has been decimated since deregulation. Unions became more concerned with saving dues at the expense of the quality.

 

[swamt]

Funny how things are moving at a more rapid pace since the AMP thing!

Yes, indeed MM. I think going with AMP is the best for you guys. To many bridges to cross with AMFA and well as too many challenges from other airlines, sad but true.
Keep it up guys and make the "me too" clause work for the mechanics just like it did for the Pilots and F/A's at AA. Send those cards in guys...

 

[WeAAsles]

Well I have to say congratulations to the AMP Organizers and it’s supporters. You aimed to capture attention and it appears as if you’re accomplishing your task well.

http://www.local591.com/docs/Talking points from Friday July 27 Rep call .pdf

 

[dfw gen]

Kind of ironic how progress occurs when things are on the line. Now produce a T.A. and solve some more of your problems.

 

[Traymark]

 

[Rogallo]

Well I have to say congratulations to the AMP Organizers and it’s supporters. You aimed to capture attention and it appears as if you’re accomplishing your task well.

http://www.local591.com/docs/Talking points from Friday July 27 Rep call .pdf

How do you like your crow?

 

[WeAAsles]

How do you like your crow?

Well I think they should have ignored you myself personally, but hey what the hell do I know I guess.

I do occasionally eat crow and when I do I like it broiled with a little Orange Marmalade on top.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Kind of ironic how progress occurs when things are on the line. Now produce a T.A. and solve some more of your problems.

I don't believe for one second that there has been any progress. As long as the IAM has the right to veto we won't see a deal. They expect to be paid for taking on higher medical when it is AA who has been paying the higher premiums. Since US has been making more take home than AA for many months now doesn't it make sense that AA get paid? Not to the IAM who has done their best to keep negotiations from progressing. The only way is to get rid of them and the TWU. Sign the AMP cards.

 

[MetalMover]

I don't believe for one second that there has been any progress. As long as the IAM has the right to veto we won't see a deal. They expect to be paid for taking on higher medical when it is AA who has been paying the higher premiums. Since US has been making more take home than AA for many months now doesn't it make sense that AA get paid? Not to the IAM who has done their best to keep negotiations from progressing. The only way is to get rid of them and the TWU. Sign the AMP cards.

Well put.....The majority being held hostage by the minority...

 

[conehead777]

In fairness to those who think AMP is the way to go, first let me say, I have yet to find anyone who thinks the Association is good, and I agree with them. But to your point that now is the time to start over, I must disagree!! The Negotiation team has successfully negotiated dozens of tentative agreements and union busting Doug Parker and Robert Isom will not honor a single one if there is a representational change. Not only will AA enjoy SEVERAL more years of continued savings, they will be justified at pointing the finger at the membership.
Here is a short list of possible losses and if you think like the AMP leadership does, that "we'll use the language" don't count on it.
TA – Limited duty: OJI 90 days and 60 days for off the job injuries.
TA – Field Trip: 1.75 x hourly rate for entire trip including up to 8 hr. rest period (at hotel) every 16 hrs.
TA – Sick Time: 1600 hr. bank, 10 day’s accrual per yr. and full pay first day.
TA – Holidays: 10 Holidays paid at 2.5 hourly rate. Ability to bank holidays for later time off.
TA – Overtime: 1.5 times pay after 8 hr. 2 times pay after 12 and 2 times pay on second day off.
TA – Reduction in Force: All RIF’s done by basic seniority to any station you can hold. AMTO class goes away and all AMT's that bump to shops keep license premium.
TA – Furlough: If you are forced, or choose to take the street you will receive up to 17 week’s
pay and then bid any opening in the system.
TA – Shift Swap: Contractual shift swap which will not require managements approval.
TA – Interior Mechanic: Protects the guys in PHX only and expires through attrition.
TA – Filling of Vacancies
TA – Hours of service
TA – Seniority
TA – Qualifications
TA – Classifications
TA – Purpose of Agreement
TA – Training
TA – Status of Agreement
TA – Initial inspection (Base MX)
TA – Union Security
TA – Effect on prior agreement
TA – Termination of employment
TA – Computer programming AMT
TA – Fitness for Duty
TA – Bid Realignment
TA – Uniforms (Line MX)
Company offer of 6 weeks VC on the table while union continues to fight for 7.
A proper union scope proposal on the table.
9% company contribution to 401K.
Possibly $53 per hour for top AMT pay.
Take on healthcare once scope is TA'd.

AMP guys think going with a union who represents no one, has no by-laws, no local structure, a constitution yet to be finalized, and 75% of your dues money goes to the International level seems like a good thing to do. You think we are frustrated now? Just wait! and WAIT! and WAIT!
Changing horses in mid-stream is a VERY BAD IDEA!

Look we are just getting back what we lost. Plus in the 01 contract we had 12 days sick time if my memory removers correct. We had double time on field trip after 12 hours if on reg duty the first 8 straight then 4 hr double time till we got home, if on day off 8 at 1.5 then double till we got home. 1.75 is not good enough we need so that’s a loss plus we have lost 2 weeks of vacation since 01. That’s a loss we did have 10 days holidays at 2.5 so we’re getting that back not improved. I’ll sign a card when my loa is up on the 16th of August. After being sick since the first of year. AMP will be our own union to set up what the majority want just like pilots and flight attendant did.

 

[conehead777]

I don't believe for one second that there has been any progress. As long as the IAM has the right to veto we won't see a deal. They expect to be paid for taking on higher medical when it is AA who has been paying the higher premiums. Since US has been making more take home than AA for many months now doesn't it make sense that AA get paid? Not to the IAM who has done their best to keep negotiations from progressing. The only way is to get rid of them and the TWU. Sign the AMP cards.

Yes us laa group need a retro check for all the holidays and overtime since the merger and a refund on our medical to to make us whole of the iam member who got a contract before the jcba we should of got that also. But the twu didn’t care as long as they got our dues money.

 

[Buck]

True. But the gist of my point was this age-old union mantra of "STRENGTH IN NUMBERS" has done nothing for any of us in this industry. The airline worker has been decimated since deregulation. Unions became more concerned with saving dues at the expense of the quality.

That exactly right, the "STRENGTH IN NUMBERS" has not worked. Until recently Fleet did not require anything like it as they hovered around their maximum salary in the industry.
The Mechanics in the pre-association have hovered near the bottom of their potential always under the other airline mechanics.

 

[swamt]

Kind of ironic how progress occurs when things are on the line. Now produce a T.A. and solve some more of your problems.

I understand what you are saying but M&M is right, I too believe there was NO progress. They will twist and fudge any kind of update now going forward to look as if it is moving forward now that the AMP cards are flying, don't fooled guys.
Point 2; In the latest update under the "AMP stories" (you just gotta love that title, huh?" 6 bullet points they pointed out:
They answer all of them with "not true" with no explanation what so ever.
1- About honoring current T/A's. No the co. does not "have" to or can or will be forced to, however, they very easily can and should in the order of keep progress moving forward. For every one the co. wants to pull out of, the the new and improved union, AMP can and should pick another one to re-open. (that might put a suden stop to them trying that)
2- This one made me laugh out loud. Everyone knows that the asso. will not continue nego's once a filing has taken place. Yes they will stop, but, they will also resume with the new and improved union, AMP.
3- This is the same bullet point as #2. But I will add; If the co. decides to stall even more because of the change then it will be for the stall tactics not because they have too, period.
4- AMP can sue the co. and the union for whatever they want too or as they see needed. However let's look at it in a way the union and company does not want you guys to think about. The asso. after being removed, if they are truely working in the interest of the membership would set dates to meet with new AMP leaders, and the new and improved nego teams to share all details thus far within nego's. The company could very easily do the same. My prediction is, they (both sides) will not, because they (both sides) are only working in the interest of themselves, both co. and asso. not looking out for the membership, period.
5- This bullet point is absolutely true. However, by installing the phrase, "nobody can predict what the co. might do", is just another scare tactic to scare some members. The co. has to honor current agreement until the new and improved union, AMP gets the new contract done. Remember, it will not be AMP wanting to start from scratch, this would only be a move by the co. with the help from the asso/TWU/IAM to stall out nego's as long as possible to blame it all on AMP. Trust me, this all happened with us after we fired the reamsters.
6- Bullet point #6 is just another stall scare tactic by the asso.. Yes it will take time to get things in place and up and running, however, it will not as long as they are trying to indicate. The AMP constitution is pretty much done deal. The voting process will take place as AMP allows all officers to be "ELECTED" into their positions by the membership not assigned or appointed by the "buddy-buddy" system like the asso/TWU/IAM/industrial unions do. The asso wants everyone to think it will take forever for AMP to get up and running, Simply, as they always answer "NOT TRUE!!!"