What If Ron Paul Wins Iowa? What Then?

[777 fixer]

Ron Paul - A PRO-ENERGY PRESIDENT


* Repeal the federal tax on gasoline. Eliminating the federal gas tax would result in an 18 cents savings per gallon for American consumers.

I believe this is called pandering in an election year. Where is the government going to make up for the lost tax revenue?

 

[SparrowHawk]

I beleive this is called pandering in an election year. Where is the government going to make up for the lost tax revenue?

By shutting down FIVE Cabinet level departments. It's all on his web site,

 

[777 fixer]

In the Revere Chemical Corp. (Manfred Derewal) case the original crime occurred in 1965. Please note the date of the final consent decree:



By my count the vaunted EPA dogged this guy on a host of charges and it took some 40 years to get an end result on ONE through the EPA hearing process and Federal Courts. Conversely the State courts were able to prosecute him on other charges including importation of components for the making of Methamphetamine and other charges and he served a portion of a ten year sentence and released on parole BEFORE the original charge was fully adjudicated. For the Record this polluter resides in a nice little place outside of Dublin, PA, IIRC he is 84 now and by all accounts unrepentant.

State courts are known to move much quicker and NO Company wants to get embroiled in a jury trial in a local community where damages can be awarded in the multimillion of dollars and the negative publicity that goes along with it.

Here is a good link on the Echo/Boarhead debacle. Frankly it points out a sad fact and that is no matter who chases whom if the offending party doesn't want to "Clean up their Act" there is little that can be done in a short time frame. However it is far easier and less expensive to drag a Rat Bast*rd like DeRewal into state court then risk him getting hung up in the federal system.

Another case of you dodging the issue. God forbid you come up with something other than a long drawn out rant.

 

[777 fixer]

By shutting down FIVE Cabinet level departments. It's all on his web site,

Since all you Paul supporters are experts in the Constitution you should know he does not have that power.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Another case of you dodging the issue. God forbid you come up with something other than a long drawn out rant.

That is all he has left, like most Ronulans, they can't come up with an original idea, and their arrogance against anyone who doesn't worship at the altar of Ron is one of the main reasons that Paul is losing...again and again and again.

Geeky fanboys spouting their cultlike politics is not a way to run a campaign. Ron Paul is like a bug zapper, it attracts all the crazies and nutters out there...right into the zapper.

Think of all the money raised by Paul...for what? Another gigantic humiliation.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Another case of you dodging the issue. God forbid you come up with something other than a long drawn out rant.

Enforcement of Private Property Rights and contracts is fundamental to the Republic. Redefining the role of the Federal Government is merely the first step. The EPA has a place in the Government and while I'm not sure what it is there has to be at minimum an agency that establishes standards of conduct for Corporations and Individuals. I like to work on what I cal "The Eight Simple Rules of Environmental Protection". What needs to happen is a very short list of rules and rigid enforcement. If we go back to the DeRewal case and we have a fish kill and find out it was a copper based fungicide that killed the fish and there is ONE company in a 25 mile radius that stores that material and the creek backs up to their property you can't allow that company to dodge the law for decades with legal wrangling. The adjudication must be swift and sure. Bottom line is you have to make it cheaper to do things the right way.

Want to be good and pissed off read what Exxon's legal team did to the victims in the Exxon Valdez suit. Counsel determined how long the litigation would take and how much longer they could drag it out and compared that to the average life expectancy of the plaintiffs. They literally waited until half the plaintiffs were dead.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Since all you Paul supporters are experts in the Constitution you should know he does not have that power.

I'm curious as to where you got this notion? Are you referring to Congress having to approve a budget? I spent about an hour looking around and the creation or elimination of cabinet positions has been conducted with the advice and consent of Congress. Best example I could find was FDR getting approval to eliminate positions of his choosing. What is unclear is if that is an absolute requirement for the President? I don't think it is.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

As Paul's White House campaign fades, supporters face choices

By Deborah Charles

WASHINGTON | Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:01am EDT

(Reuters) - Ron Paul's loyal band of supporters are just accepting now what many have known for a long time: the Texas congressman's White House bid is fading badly.

Paul's poll numbers are down and he has no chance of earning the Republican nomination. He is 29 percentage points behind front-runner Mitt Romney in a poll for Tuesday's Wisconsin primary.

Now, the main questions remaining are whether his followers will switch their allegiance to another candidate, and if Paul can still carry his libertarian banner into the Republican convention in August and beyond.

Paul's message of sharply reducing the role of government, scrapping the Federal Reserve and ending the U.S. military presence overseas is unique to him. Many of his followers say they would not vote at all in the November 6 general election if Paul were not the Republican nominee.

"I would have a hard time voting for anybody in the general election," said Mike Hurlock, a junior at the University of Maryland, where a crowd gave Paul several standing ovations during a 50-minute speech this week.

"I'm not a fan of anyone (other than Paul) in the election."

Romney is also likely to easily beat Paul and the other Republican hopefuls at Tuesday's primary in Maryland. Paul has won none of the state nominating contests in the 2012 election season, despite boasting the most passionate supporters and committed volunteers on the ground.

Earlier this week the 76-year-old congressman energized about 2,000 people at the University of Maryland, where the arena echoed with chants of "President Paul, President Paul" and "End the Fed, End the Fed."

But fired up fans do not always translate into support at the ballot box, said Republican consultant Matt Mackowiak.

"There is a level of excitement at rallies - so going to one of his rallies is sort of an act of defiance. But voting is very solitary," Mackowiak said.

Paul is now holding only a couple of campaign events a week, compared to several a day by the top two candidates Romney and Rick Santorum.

Polls show Paul commands around 12 percent of the Republican vote nationally.

He is unlikely to drop out of the race soon, but some of his backers may gravitate toward Romney in the vote for the nomination, Republican strategist Ford O'Connell said, noting that Paul and Romney have maintained cordial relations in the often bitter campaign.

"Paul supporters are not fans of Romney, but one thing for sure is that Ron Paul would rather have Romney than (Newt) Gingrich or Santorum," O'Connell said.

ALL FOR THE CAUSE

Paul's campaign was always about promoting his libertarian cause of limited government, rather than being a feasible attempt to win the nomination.

"For Paul people, the important thing is what we believe in," said supporter Chris Shelley in Maryland.

"What carries me through is that win or lose this election, this movement is going to go on," said Shelley, who voted for Democrat Barack Obama in the 2008 presidential election. "He is a figurehead of a movement."

Paul himself seems focused beyond the nomination fight.

"An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped," he said in the Maryland arena. "That is what I see and am experiencing. Be encouraged. Have fun doing this. Freedom is popular. Get out there and spread the message."

In some ways, Paul was ahead of his time.

"As the party as a whole is having a larger conversation, certainly our nominee will take the positions of stopping runaway spending, trying to reduce the debt and deficit - all of which are a major part of what Ron Paul's candidacy was," Republican strategist Doug Heye said.

While he has been very successful with small donations and is second only to Romney in total campaign fundraising, Paul lags far behind in the number of delegates to the Republican National Convention in Tampa, Florida.

So far Romney has won about 565 delegates - twice as many as his closest rival Santorum - while Paul has only 66, according to Real Clear Politics. A candidate needs 1,144 to win the nomination.

In the end, Romney may turn to Paul for support and his delegates if it looks like the nomination battle will go all the way to the convention in August.

"The fact that Paul has those delegates really allows him to expand his message potentially to the convention where he could have a say in the platform," O'Connell said.

The most likely elements of Paul's platform that could be adopted at the convention include his push for a strong dollar policy and greater transparency at the Federal Reserve.

But establishment Republicans will likely shy away from Paul's more radical foreign policy views like practically doing away with U.S. involvement overseas and massive military cuts.

If the party offers Paul a speaking role at the convention, they will have to figure out how to contain him, analysts said.

"They're going to have to try to find a way to strike that balance between what he wants to say about foreign policy and what he wants to say about domestic policy," O'Connell said.

"It's a real tightrope they're going to have to walk but I'm sure that not having him have a say in it could leave some people very angry in a very tight election," O'Connell added.

 

[delldude]

How much taxpayer money was "wasted" getting us to the moon? we're you disappointed when we had rockets blow up in the pad? We're you calling for the end of the space program or NASA when they had high profile failures?

Our space program has turned out to be a pretty good investment. Succesful ventures often come to fruition after multiple failures by people who were not willing to throw in the towel when they knew they were doing the right thing.

Difference then was a country freaking out about Ivan orbiting a small radio transmitter and eventually a nuke and the military industrial complex doing something about it.

Difference now is millions in campaign contributions by the green extremists for promises of government monies to start new green industries which have failed miserably here and some were told by CBO they weren't worthy investments and this administration went ahead against its own advice. I have nothing against research, but millions upon millions doled out and most if not all have either failed or were relocated to China?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Lets see, how did Ron do tonight?

DC: Romney 68%, Paul 15%, Gingrich 12%
Maryland: Romney 49%, Santorum 29% Gingrich 11%, Paul 9%
Wisconsin: Romney 42%, Santorum 39%, Paul 11%, Gingrich 6%

Another stellar night of losses for Ron Paul, lets see, with these three states, that means that Ron Paul has lost EVERY SINGLE PRIMARY FOR THE LAST TWO PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS.

At least he is consistent....

 

[SparrowHawk]

On Supporting Ron Paul - We don't see Left & Right, Republican or Democrat. We see Liberty versus Tyranny or Good versus Evil. We don't see a Terrorist at every turn.

We see images of dead civilians in undeclared wars and we realize they could be us dying at the hand of an out of control Federal Government.

We see Crony Capitalists and their Political Parasite hand maidens in the Federal Government cutting bailouts and sweet heart deals saddling our Children's Grand Children with the bill

We see the naked greed of Wall Street and their Consigliere, Ben Bernanke pervert our currency so his Wall Street cronies can prosper while we struggle to pay for Gas and Groceries

We see our Liberties being stolen by the Alphabet Soup Agencies of the Federal Government, TSA, NSA, ATF, CIA, RICO, FISA, NDAA, SOPA and the Patriot Act

We are confused and amazed that anyone would trade Individual Liberty for the tempory illusion of security

Often we feel like strangers in a strange land. Then we read the words of the Founding Fathers and we are heartened. We are an idea whose time is returning. We are secure in the truth. We know there is no Government or Army on the face of the earth that can stop an idea whose time has come.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

On Supporting Ron Paul - We don't see Left & Right, Republican or Democrat. We see Liberty versus Tyranny or Good versus Evil. We don't see a Terrorist at every turn.

We see images of dead civilians in undeclared wars and we realize they could be us dying at the hand of an out of control Federal Government.

We see Crony Capitalists and their Political Parasite hand maidens in the Federal Government cutting bailouts and sweet heart deals saddling our Children's Grand Children with the bill

We see the naked greed of Wall Street and their Consigliere, Ben Bernanke pervert our currency so his Wall Street cronies can prosper while we struggle to pay for Gas and Groceries

We see our Liberties being stolen by the Alphabet Soup Agencies of the Federal Government, TSA, NSA, ATF, CIA, RICO, FISA, NDAA, SOPA and the Patriot Act

We are confused and amazed that anyone would trade Individual Liberty for the tempory illusion of security

Often we feel like strangers in a strange land. Then we read the words of the Founding Fathers and we are heartened. We are an idea whose time is returning. We are secure in the truth. We know there is no Government or Army on the face of the earth that can stop an idea whose time has come.

America sees....LOSER!

 

[777 fixer]

Want to be good and pissed off read what Exxon's legal team did to the victims in the Exxon Valdez suit. Counsel determined how long the litigation would take and how much longer they could drag it out and compared that to the average life expectancy of the plaintiffs. They literally waited until half the plaintiffs were dead.

That's what I've been trying to say.

 

[777 fixer]

I'm curious as to where you got this notion? Are you referring to Congress having to approve a budget? I spent about an hour looking around and the creation or elimination of cabinet positions has been conducted with the advice and consent of Congress. Best example I could find was FDR getting approval to eliminate positions of his choosing. What is unclear is if that is an absolute requirement for the President? I don't think it is.

You kind of answered your own question. The Dept of Education was created by an act of congress. Ronald Reagan made no secret he wanted to get rid of it but he never did. Why, becasue the democrats controlled congress.

 

[SparrowHawk]

That's what I've been trying to say.

If we as a nation stay within the defined role of Government, States would be able to spend the money required to streamline the system. Lawsuits such as the Exxon Valdez could be fast tracked and prevent the type of legal maneuvering that went on.

Additionally at the Federal if we were within the defined role of Government the Feds (when appropriate i.e. Exxon Valdez) could and should step in to enforce Contract and Property rights issues. Legal & Judicial Enforcement of Contract & Private Property rights are fundamental for a free society to grow and prosper. Enforcement, both criminally and civilly is a clearly defined role for Government at any level.