What If Ron Paul Wins Iowa? What Then?

[tech2101]

You might want to do a search of the name Manfred Derewel. He lived up the road from me back in the 1970's. He is one of the most notorious polluters in US/EPA History.

Erin Brockovitch? Really?

She represents all the regular citizens of this country who would be subject to the whims of any polluter who do did not have to worry about those nuisance EPA regulations.

Your trip to the Ronulan Empire has warped your sense of judgement.

 

[delldude]

How much taxpayer money was "wasted" getting us to the moon? we're you disappointed when we had rockets blow up in the pad? We're you calling for the end of the space program or NASA when they had high profile failures?

Our space program has turned out to be a pretty good investment. Succesful ventures often come to fruition after multiple failures by people who were not willing to throw in the towel when they knew they were doing the right thing.

You bring up good points, but having grown up in that era, I don't recall endless ventures going belly up like the Obama initiatives.

I remember Redstone boosters exploding and such, but I really don't remember an endless supply of taxpayer dollars producing nothing except income for bankruptcy lawyers and golden parachutes for Obama contributors.

If I am wrong, please show me where.....Please.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Erin Brockovitch? Really?

She represents all the regular citizens of this country who would be subject to the whims of any polluter who do did not have to worry about those nuisance EPA regulations.

No she was merely an example of what ONE person can do. Over half a BILLION in judgements against PSE & G all because ONE person stood up. There is a lady back home near Toms River, NJ who was doing battle with Ciba-Geigy and has ultimately won her case Her victory was under STATE law, not federal. Our System works when it's left as the Founding Fathers envisioned it.

 

[tech2101]

You bring up good points, but having grown up in that era, I don't recall endless ventures going belly up like the Obama initiatives.

I remember Redstone boosters exploding and such, but I really don't remember an endless supply of taxpayer dollars producing nothing except income for bankruptcy lawyers and golden parachutes for Obama contributors.

That is because we did not have the Internet, digital cameras, and a 24 hour news cycle generated by satellite tv.

It was hapening back then.

We also used to have editors who valued news stories for what they were, not from what sound bite they generated. But hell, we created this monster Dell. We just have to filter through the bull #### and decide what is real.

That is tough when 50% of what is called news now is actually lobbyist generated psuedo-advertisements masquerading as legitimate, useful information. And yes, that blanket statement applies to many organizations that portend to be balanced or non-partisan. (read ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS, WND, POLITICO, HUFFPO, MSNBC, ETC...)

 

[delldude]

That is because we did not have the Internet, digital cameras, and a 24 hour news cycle generated by satellite tv.

It was hapening back then.

We also used to have editors who valued news stories for what they were, not from what sound bite they generated. But hell, we created this monster Dell. We just have to filter through the bull #### and decide what is real.

That is tough when 50% of what is called news now is actually lobbyist generated psuedo-advertisements masquerading as legitimate, useful information. And yes, that blanket statement applies to many organizations that portend to be balanced or non-partisan. (read ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS, WND, POLITICO, HUFFPO, MSNBC, ETC...)

So you just proved my point of not being able to provide credible sourcing for your claim. I thought so.

 

[tech2101]

So you just proved my point of not being able to provide credible sourcing for your claim. I thought so.

What?

You missed the point completely. I could put out many samples of what I m talking about. To what end?

You will simply dismiss them as not being a worthy source, or you will put out some other inane set of tangential material.

What is the point? I have recently made a decision to allocate my time to things other than circular arguments.

 

[Ms Tree]

Does any one here believe the Erin's of the world are in the majority?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Does any one here believe the Erin's of the world are in the majority?

There would be a great many more without the Nanny State. True Freedom and Individual Liberty require an equal amount of responsibility. The last part is what this society ignores that fact,

 

[777 fixer]

So you just proved my point of not being able to provide credible sourcing for your claim. I thought so.

Would the Weekly World News be more to your liking.

 

[Ms Tree]

There would be a great many more without the Nanny State. True Freedom and Individual Liberty require an equal amount of responsibility. The last part is what this society ignores that fact,

Conjecture not supported by history in my opinion. Look at the labor/corporate world back in the 20' 30's and 40's. Corporations had all the power and the people had nothing. Corporations cannot be trusted to do the right thing any more than government can be. Corporations are violating the law on a daily basis and are not being taken to court for it because you can hardly find a lawyer willing to do it. Hell in my case I was terminated on trumped up charges and every lawyer told me that in a right to work state the corporation can do what they want to you with impunity. So long as your civil rights are not violated then can can you for no reason what so ever and get away with it.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Conjecture not supported by history in my opinion. Look at the labor/corporate world back in the 20' 30's and 40's. Corporations had all the power and the people had nothing. Corporations cannot be trusted to do the right thing any more than government can be. Corporations are violating the law on a daily basis and are not being taken to court for it because you can hardly find a lawyer willing to do it. Hell in my case I was terminated on trumped up charges and every lawyer told me that in a right to work state the corporation can do what they want to you with impunity. So long as your civil rights are not violated then can can you for no reason what so ever and get away with it.

Corporations ALWAYS do what's right! For Them! It's called Capitalism and you'd best get used to it. As flawed as it can be at times it is still the best economic system.

We've all been canned! So what! That's the way it works. I was dead certain that I was about to be the victim of a corporate witch hunt. It took them 2 years following their internal guidelines to get me to the last level. During that time I built a case based on their internal policies. Did I fuss with a few locked cabinets? Sure did! I funneled all of this information up to a lady I knew in HR very well and told her not to show it to anyone until I'm gone. Well I get "the word" that I'm getting the boot that Friday. So at 4:50PM Thursday I turn in my resignation, which makes me "Subject to Rehire", a phrase which is critical when you get your references checked. Called my HR contact told her I resigned and she released the information I had collected.

30 Days Later, The Production Manager, My Boss and the Region Manager were FIRED based upon what I provided. I was out of work less than a week and that was because I took a few days.

The point is that an individual can stand up and be heard above Corporations and Governments, often in small ways but sometimes in very large ways too. Not being a giant fan of Unions (as they exist today) there rise gave us a middle class and the violence in the Coal Fields & Steel Mills demonstrated that Liberty prospers when Men/Women of honor rise up and just say NO!

The demographics are on the side of Liberty, the problem is that to few bother to exercise their rights. I've been saying it's time for the people to Wake Up, Wise Up and Rise Up. This is why the Mainstream Politicians come absolutely unglued over the Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street and Ron Paul. If those three groups and their supporters focused on their common ground (Of which there is a great deal) banded together the current political Parasite Class and their Crony Capitalist buddies are in Deep Poop and they know it. The sycophant MSM is more then happy to paint any or all three groups as extreme, violence prone, etc etc in order to maintain the status quo. Funny thing is when you see the images of these groups you see us, everyday people who are pissed off and in the street over it. Scary stuff if you're Obama, Romney, Gingrich or Santorum

 

[delldude]

What?

You missed the point completely. I could put out many samples of what I m talking about. To what end?

You will simply dismiss them as not being a worthy source, or you will put out some other inane set of tangential material.

What is the point? I have recently made a decision to allocate my time to things other than circular arguments.

A larger part of the development for space travel was funded and created inside NASA's own programs with other items contracted out to NASA spec's.

Obama has proved crony capitalism is a failure.

 

[delldude]

Would the Weekly World News be more to your liking.

I like Russia Today and Al Jazeera, official news sources recommended by Hillary.

 

[777 fixer]

Ron Paul - A PRO-ENERGY PRESIDENT



* Eliminate the ineffective EPA. Polluters should answer directly to property owners in court for the damages they create – not to Washington.

Sounds like a system where you spend years in court, coprorations having unlimited amounts of money and time not being a concern, where if you are lucky they throw you some money to make you go away. In the mean time health might have been adversly affected, as in the Erin Brokovich case you mentioned and the land on which you live may very well be worthless.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Sounds like a system where you spend years in court, coprorations having unlimited amounts of money and time not being a concern, where if you are lucky they throw you some money to make you go away. In the mean time health might have been adversly affected, as in the Erin Brokovich case you mentioned and the land on which you live may very well be worthless.

In the Revere Chemical Corp. (Manfred Derewal) case the original crime occurred in 1965. Please note the date of the final consent decree:

Under 28 CFR 50.7, notice is hereby given that on November 16,
2004, a proposed consent decree in United States v. Cabot Corporation,
et al., Civil Action No. 2:04-cv-5317, was lodged with the United
States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.
In this action the United States sought cost recovery for costs
incurred in connection with the Revere Chemical Superfund Site located
in Nockamixon Township, Bucks County, Pennsylvania (the ``Site'').
Under the terms of the consent decree, the proposed settling defendants
would pay $929,530.92 to EPA to cover past response costs.

By my count the vaunted EPA dogged this guy on a host of charges and it took some 40 years to get an end result on ONE through the EPA hearing process and Federal Courts. Conversely the State courts were able to prosecute him on other charges including importation of components for the making of Methamphetamine and other charges and he served a portion of a ten year sentence and released on parole BEFORE the original charge was fully adjudicated. For the Record this polluter resides in a nice little place outside of Dublin, PA, IIRC he is 84 now and by all accounts unrepentant.

State courts are known to move much quicker and NO Company wants to get embroiled in a jury trial in a local community where damages can be awarded in the multimillion of dollars and the negative publicity that goes along with it.

Here is a good link on the Echo/Boarhead debacle. Frankly it points out a sad fact and that is no matter who chases whom if the offending party doesn't want to "Clean up their Act" there is little that can be done in a short time frame. However it is far easier and less expensive to drag a Rat Bast*rd like DeRewal into state court then risk him getting hung up in the federal system.