what has the association accomplished?

[Racer X]

Sad thats they only thing you took away from that. But talking about sitting back and letting others do the work. Yea thats my m.o. what's yours?

Sounds like you’re really proud. Of what? I’m not really sure

 

[Kev3188]

If nothing else, The Association is proving to be a great example of why it's time for "Exclusive Representation" to go.

 

[dfw gen]

If nothing else, The Association is proving to be a great example of why it's time for "Exclusive Representation" to go.

yes that would be a good course of action, they are very good at spinning.

 

[dfw gen]

The only reason I said that was because look what UPS, got, it took 5 years, because they wanted their medical and got it. Teamsters can put a hurt on an employer with 1,000,000 membership. Vrs AMFA 4500 members. You guys could put a hurt on, but nobody cares and everyone fights.

you are correct reference the essay on solidarity, or lack of effort in solidarity. what the association has accomplished is to rest on its laurels of the twu signing such a foolish agreement. we are in the position we are in because its a partnership in name only. when my leadership called i answered. in the beginning even though the association was created in deceit they had a chance to prove its worth. they passed. if they had the foresight to actually be a partnership it would have been possible to salvage it and actually accomplish what it set out to do. we may have answered the call of the association leadership. very rarely do shotgun weddings work, this is not one of them.

 

[WeAAsles]

All this nonsense at this time can hope to accomplish is to help slow the process even more than people already think it is. It’s incredibly foolish and highly counterproductive if it gains any real traction.

I honestly have to wonder if it’s not Management driven since it’s posters have been never ending relentless since day one in their criticism and condemnation?

 

[swamt]

what has the association accomplished? before i start i want to make clear this is not a knock on iam members but their leadership their decisions and the consequences. we have a few winners on our side of the fence.

you might say the pay raise, the company brought cross utilization. what we sold and what they brought were two different things. Robert Isom was right in saying that pay raise may have been a mistake. for them it was.

anyway what have they accomplished?

when our p.v's were taken away, what was the reaction? i dont know they dont tell us anything. but i would imagine it was "gee we have D.A.T.s man that sucks. instead of being a true partner mobilizing the troops and saying an injustice for one is an injustice for all"

when they took away our flex vacation, what was the reaction of the association? a true partner would have come to our aid and said "no, you cant take that in fact we want it!" instead i would imagine the response was "we dont have that, wow. see you later" i dont know they dont tell us anything.

the first holiday my partner had that i didnt, you would think there would be outrage. and some kind of support. instead i would imagine the reaction was "damn you guys got hosed!" hey we are having a bbq ill get back to you on that. i dont know they dont tell us ****.

when i was walking the picket on my own time, a true partner would have joined me and had sympathy from your plight and multiple trips thru bankruptcy. instead of loading the leadership in a bus and bringing them down,i guess they are saving themselves to be the tip of the spear for when they need a partner.

now we are told wait till we have a jcba its not the right time. when is the right time? up to now everything negotiated and t.a'd is fluff. its stuff that they just talk about to get to know each other until the real issues come up scope and benefits.its important but easy basically procedural. now we are down to the nitty gritty of negotiations and all along i have trouble believing that what the company wants in scope and benefits was not anticipated by the negotiating committee. i find it very hard to believe that we were truly blind sided, i pay the association to negotiate a contract to be prepared for what may come to the best of their ability. all of the above examples are what preparations should have been made to ensure a strong partnership that can not be broken and is properly bonded.

they failed.

is now the time? when the association was imposed, its creation was based on the deception of a vote that did not occur. all the secrecy and rumors and misinformation that has been allowed to run rampant is another sign of the failure of the association.

im not feeling the refreshing fresh air of change, just the hot muggy feeling as business as usual.

i dont know they dont tell us anything.

Could not agree more. Get those signed cards in. AMP is the best choice for you guys. Good luck and look forward to the announcement soon for a vote.
ONE union ONE voice for the mechanics and related ONLY...

 

[dfw gen]

can someone answer definitively what organization is listed with NLRB as my representative? my understanding it that the twu and iam when they formed the association submitted an application for representation as the "association" . so they voluntarily surrendered their representation to become the association. i also understand they used the "check off card" that you signed when you hired on, and were required to sign as a condition of employment in a closed shop, as proof of "interest" in the association, thus no election was required.

 

[MetalMover]

All this nonsense at this time can hope to accomplish is to help slow the process even more than people already think it is. It’s incredibly foolish and highly counterproductive if it gains any real traction.

I honestly have to wonder if it’s not Management driven since it’s posters have been never ending relentless since day one in their criticism and condemnation?

Yeah, I guess we don't want to slow the process down as it has been moving at a lightning pace.
C'Mon WeAAz......
The ASSociation needs to understand that many members are not happy with its existence. Add that to the fact that no one is budging in talks and you have a lot of dissent.
Trying for a new union is doing SOMETHING more than just watching GP's useless videos and the ASSociation's fruitless updates. Better than doing NOTHING.
Even though you like to mock the mechanics' efforts in doing so.

I hope I am wrong, But I do not see the CO moving off is positions ENOUGH for the union to move a little as well.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

There has to be a balance even if a Company is providing great pay and benefits.

sure, at aa too. we want value? guys making $31/hr should be able to read a bag tag and CSMs should notice the same guys falling asleep in their favorite chairs, watching tv for 3 hours, day after day. oh wait, the CSMs have coffee with the kiss-ass, backslapping sleepy FSCs. don't forget the coffee and the #3 from mcdonald's for your c/c.

the OT guys sent to help me out are doing the work of the 2 sleepy fscs.

union brothers and sisters?

 

[WeAAsles]

Yeah, I guess we don't want to slow the process down as it has been moving at a lightning pace.
C'Mon WeAAz......
The ASSociation needs to understand that many members are not happy with its existence. Add that to the fact that no one is budging in talks and you have a lot of dissent.
Trying for a new union is doing SOMETHING more than just watching GP's useless videos and the ASSociation's fruitless updates. Better than doing NOTHING.
Even though you like to mock the mechanics' efforts in doing so.

I hope I am wrong, But I do not see the CO moving off is positions ENOUGH for the union to move a little as well.

Metal I’m not mocking anyone’s “efforts” I actually admire when you guys really are putting in an effort and not just endlessly posturing that you’re going to. But I don’t care what any of you guys say looking around not a single airline Mechanic group that has accomplished the feat has substantially benefited in any way for the effort.

Even the great hope AMFA has failed. It took them 6 years to come around right back to square one. And then this ridiculous UPS, FedEx talk? C’mon. TOTALLY different in every way.

But NOW that maybe we’re close to the finish line you guys start up again? Seriously WTF? Now? It seems like this has been a pattern with the AMT group my entire career. Doing SOMETHING is one thing, doing something that is actually PRODUCTIVE is another.

And yea I’m VERY well aware that the IAM has not lifted a finger for one single protest, report or Newspaper pressure campaign.

Again the timing for your move is just stupid IMO and I’m sorry if that bothers you. I honestly do wish you well even if you can’t understand my skepticism from the proven history of all the efforts.

When you guys do these things is when I really really really really wish you had gone away on your own a long time ago.

 

[WeAAsles]

can someone answer definitively what organization is listed with NLRB as my representative? my understanding it that the twu and iam when they formed the association submitted an application for representation as the "association" . so they voluntarily surrendered their representation to become the association. i also understand they used the "check off card" that you signed when you hired on, and were required to sign as a condition of employment in a closed shop, as proof of "interest" in the association, thus no election was required.

“In the instant case, the TWU/IAM Associations were formed by the certified representatives of Mechanics and Related Employees, Fleet Service Employees, and Stock and Stores Employees crafts or classes at pre-merger American and pre-merger US Airways. The purpose of TWU/IAM Associations is to represent the employees in the respective crafts or classes to collectively bargain under the RLA and thus the Associations clearly fall within the definition of a representative under the Act. Further, on the basis of these certifications, the TWU/IAM Associations represent 100% of these crafts or classes at the New American. The Board has consistently extended an organization’s certification to cover employees in the craft or class on the entire system when the numbers of employees on each part of the system are not comparable. American Airlines/ US Airways, 41 NMB 289 (2014)(Flight Deck Crewmembers); see also American Airlines/US Airways, 41 NMB 237 (2014) (Flight Attendants); United Air Lines/Continental Airlines, 38 NMB 249 (2011). In cases where an organization has certifications covering the crafts or classes at each pre-merger carrier, the Board has certified that organization as the representative of the combined craft or class at the merged carrier without an election. See United Air Lines/Continental Airlines, 39 NMB 171 (2011); United Air Lines/Continental Airlines, 39 NMB 167 (2011); US Airways/America West Airlines, 33 NMB 293 (2006); Pennsylvania Airlines/Allegheny Commuter Airlines, 19 NMB 362 (1992).”

http://www.twulocal513.org/docs/42_NMB_No__20.pdf

 

[MetalMover]

Metal I’m not mocking anyone’s “efforts” I actually admire when you guys really are putting in an effort and not just endlessly posturing that you’re going to. But I don’t care what any of you guys say looking around not a single airline Mechanic group that has accomplished the feat has substantially benefited in any way for the effort.

Even the great hope AMFA has failed. It took them 6 years to come around right back to square one. And then this ridiculous UPS, FedEx talk? C’mon. TOTALLY different in every way.

But NOW that maybe we’re close to the finish line you guys start up again? Seriously WTF? Now? It seems like this has been a pattern with the AMT group my entire career. Doing SOMETHING is one thing, doing something that is actually PRODUCTIVE is another.

And yea I’m VERY well aware that the IAM has not lifted a finger for one single protest, report or Newspaper pressure campaign.

Again the timing for your move is just stupid IMO and I’m sorry if that bothers you. I honestly do wish you well even if you can’t understand my skepticism from the proven history of all the efforts.

When you guys do these things is when I really really really really wish you had gone away on your own a long time ago.

WeAAz, changing representation in the mechanic group has always been difficult. There are so many different entities to contend with. Thanks to the TWU, we have always had the LINE vs BASE division. I can't tell you how many times the TUL local president has threatened to use his roll call vote to buy a contract. That has stuck in my craw for decades.
Then there were the specialty areas and shops who were added into the mix. Now you take the LAA divisions and add them to the LUS side who will be threatened once again with their IAMNPF if they change unions. Lastly, don't forget those who simply don't want to leave the TWU regardless of their location and job description.
Hell, there are even geographic divisions. Do you remember the pre BK contract we voted down?

Certain stations including your own were AGAINST GEO pay for the higher cost areas.
I guess they didn't understand the concept of GEO pay.


There will never be a good time to change unions as far as TWU supporters go,
This has and always will be a difficult task.

 

[WeAAsles]

can someone answer definitively what organization is listed with NLRB as my representative? my understanding it that the twu and iam when they formed the association submitted an application for representation as the "association" . so they voluntarily surrendered their representation to become the association. i also understand they used the "check off card" that you signed when you hired on, and were required to sign as a condition of employment in a closed shop, as proof of "interest" in the association, thus no election was required.

There was no need for any check off cards or cards at all to certify the TWU/ IAM Association as their certifications to collectively bargain with AA were merely extended jointly.

TWU has represented the Classes and Crafts since 1947 and the IAM has done the same since 1949 and 1995.

“The TWU/IAM Associations that were formed by TWU and IAM represent all of the employees in these crafts or classes on the merged system and the New American has not objected to the certification of the TWU/IAM Associations. Therefore, TWU’s and IAM’s certifications are extended to cover the merged crafts or classes with the respective TWU/IAM Association as the certified representative and the TWU’s and IAM’s individual certifications are terminated.”

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAz, changing representation in the mechanic group has always been difficult. There are so many different entities to contend with. Thanks to the TWU, we have always had the LINE vs BASE division. I can't tell you how many times the TUL local president has threatened to use his roll call vote to buy a contract. That has stuck in my craw for decades.

Well # 1 that wasn’t the TWU that was the elected representatives of TUL and the TWU Constitution that put that in place. But your own group is doing the same thing by screaming they’re the majority over the IAM.

# 2 the Roll Call is officially dead with the Association. TUL can’t overlord you any longer. But now you want to go with an idea (AMP) born out of TUL? Huh?

Then there were the specialty areas and shops who were added into the mix. Now you take the LAA divisions and add them to the LUS side who will be threatened once again with their IAMNPF if they change unions. Lastly, don't forget those who simply don't want to leave the TWU regardless of their location and job description.
Hell, there are even geographic divisions. Do you remember the pre BK contract we voted down?

And you wonder why I’m actually super skeptical? Your task was hard enough before and now it’s grown even larger that mountain. And the NMB put those groups into your Class and Craft. Certainly not the little baby ass TWU had that power. Those groups have to be put somewhere. And there are a ton of Title 2 guys I know who would much rather be with us than with you guys.

And if the IAM guys leave there Pension will be frozen and the IAMPF will not accept any further contributions. # 1 there, why should they? # 2 It’s in the IAMPF Plan documents that you have to be an IAM Member to participate.

And if your Drive does gain any traction why in the World would ANYONE not expect pushback from the IAM and maybe the TWU? Ridiculous to think they should just bow down without stating their case to remain. F’n laughable every time someone brings up that the other Unions fought back. Chit are they kidding Metal?

Certain stations including your own were AGAINST GEO pay for the higher cost areas.
I guess they didn't understand the concept of GEO pay.


There will never be a good time to change unions as far as TWU supporters go,
This has and always will be a difficult task.

Hey man you know how I feel about GEO pay or a COLA. Guess I would make a lousy DFW President. Can’t get away from the idiotic “Equal pay for equal work” crowd. (Now I’ll get attacked by the Socialists watch)

I don’t think in the middle of Contract Negotiations is a good time no. And as long as we’re attached at the hip what you guys do affects us.

If you guys do gain real momentum the Company will shut down all talks. They did it at LUS with the IBT Drive

Time is money and time wasted is money lost. Sorry.

 

[ALUS78]

sure, at aa too. we want value? guys making $31/hr should be able to read a bag tag and CSMs should notice the same guys falling asleep in their favorite chairs, watching tv for 3 hours, day after day. oh wait, the CSMs have coffee with the kiss-ass, backslapping sleepy FSCs. don't forget the coffee and the #3 from mcdonald's for your c/c.

the OT guys sent to help me out are doing the work of the 2 sleepy fscs.

union brothers and sisters?

Cream there are kiss asses and lazy chits in every job.Ive never seen anything as blatant as you describe but I dont doubt you.Unions do protect the scum to an extreme but the one time you f@@k up you might need it